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Hey there, everyone.

I was thinking about doing a new scenario, namely:

Gore doesn't get the election stolen from him in 2000, and goes on to take office in Jan. 2001. Taking the threat of terrorist attack seriously (which was done for any kind of threat under the Clinton administration, so I assume it would be a staple of a Gore-Lieberman administration, especially with war-hawk Lieberman as VP...), a full investigation is launched and the would-be hijackers are arrested while trying to obtain pilot's licenses. Thus, tragedy is averted and thousands of lives are saved, though the public doesn't see this as anything other than an interesting story on the news about the capture of would-be terrorists.

Gore continues Clinton's policies, and begins investing the budget surplus into education and health care to help rebuild American infrastructure. Gore also takes a different route on trade, focusing on Free Trade with environmental and Labor regulations, Fair Trade. (Gore's 2000 campaign was criticized by Lieberman for this and for his mounting Populist rhetoric which conflicted with Lieberman's avid Centrist ideology.)

As such, a booming economy and the like lead Gore on into the year 2004, in which he now faces down possible primary challengers and a weakened Republican Party (in part thanks to the prosperity.)

DEMOCRATS:

President Albert Gore, Jr. of Tennessee

Former Governor Howard Dean of Vermont

Representative Dennis Kucinich of Ohio

REPUBLICANS:

Senator John McCain of Arizona

Former Ambassador Alan Keyes of Maryland

Former Governor George W. Bush of Texas [Off by default]

Right now, I'm trying to think up Republican candidates for 2004.

I don't want to use many from 2008, since I want to do Vice President Lieberman's campaign there, but

nonetheless, I might use a few (i.e. McCain, since he'd probably have gotten the nomination in 2004, and in this version of history, not ran again in 2008 after losing to Gore.), so please, if you well, help me out with this.

Also, suggest some Vice Presidents for Gore, if you'd like. Gore and Lieberman might have a bit of a strained relationship at this point, as a more populist Gore would conflict with Lieberman's pro-corporate positions...

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This scenario sounds fairly good, and I would like to be a part of it. There are only a few things that I have a problem with. Firstly, their needs to be a little more background info on the Gore administration. Here are some ideas:

Electoral: Gore wins Florida since recount is allowed to continue (Kennedy switches sides from real life). Senate stays Republican in 2001 and becomes even more Republican in 2002.

Social Policy: Repeatedly vetoes Partial Birth Abortion ban, pushes for an increase in stem cell research, and takes an awkward middle ground on Gay Marriage after Massachusetts decision. Renews assault weapons ban.

Domestic Policy: Like you said, invests surplus on education and health care successfully (though does not obtain a universal health care plan). Keeps taxes basically the same as with Clinton. Ratifies Kyoto

Economic Policy: Pushes for Fair Trade with central America and other nations. opposes phase out of the estate tax. Gets into a little budget trouble.

Foreign Policy: With no 9/11, the war on terror never begins. Instead, Gore steps up anti-terror funding after stopping 9/11. The funding is aimed at countries like Pakistan so that they can crack down on terrorists. Gore also calls for bombing runs against Al-Qaeda training camps in Afganistan. As far as Iraq is concerned, Gore steps up sanctions and considers military action against the country.

As far as VPs are concerned, Lieberman should be the obvious one. But I have come up with a possible reason that he could be dropped from the ticket. In an exclusive interview with 60 minutes, Lieberman is asked what he would do with Iraq if he was president. He responds by saying that he would have to consider strong military action, due to his belief that they are sponsors of terror and are trying to attain chemical weapons. Due to this statement and their differing views on the economy, Gore drops Lieberman from the ticket.

Vere are some potential VPs:

John Edwards: The liberal senator from North Carolina would be logical due to Gore's move towards more of a populist ideology.

John Kerry: The experienced senator from Massachusetts would help shore up Gore's support with liberals who are wary of his moderate views

Hillary Clinton: Due to her name recognition and popularity in many areas, she would create a "Dream-Ticket"

Bill Richardson: Both Clinton administration members and moderates. He would expand Gore's support in the southwest

The idea of Dean and Kucinich challenging Gore are plausible. I can see Kucinich running as a one issue candidate in relation to single-payer health care. Dean would basically be a liberal challenge to Gore, like Bradley in 2000.

As far as Republicans:

John McCain: 2000 Republican runner-up who would be able to challenge Gore with moderates. Sort of like the Truman-Dewey matchup

George Bush: Running in a rematch to criticize Gore's "Liberal spending policies" and his support of Kyoto which has hurt the economy in some sectors.

Colin Powell, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Fred Thompson, and Rudy Giuliani should also be included.

As always, I would love to do platforms for all of these candidates.

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Also, as far as issues are concerned, I think that most of the 2004 issues are good, but Iraq needs to be changed from withdrawl/stay the course to intervene/don't intervene. Homeland security should be a debate between creating it or not. Also, i just considered that Lieberman could run for president himself, but he should be off by default. As you can see I'm very excited by this.

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I don't see Dean as a primary challenger. Kucinich, yes (though he probably shouldn't get more than a few percent), but Dean was a little known governor who only became the frontrunner for the nomination because of his strong antiwar stances. Without the war, I don't really see why he would run, especially as he isn't particularly progressive on economic issues.

Instead I think Lieberman should mount a primary challenge from the right. As soon as Gore moved the slightest bit to the left, I think Lieberman would have broken with Gore and would have ran a campaign with the more conservative parts of the party as his base. He would also have a shot, being the vice-president and all.

I look forward to playing it. :)

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Huge fan of the idea of making Lieberman run with the Republicans, would take a lot of work in the percentages, but could be great. You would start with Lieberman having to try to make inroads with conservatives in the primary, but if he can accomplish it, then the moderate side of the Democratic party could be easily convinced to turn on Gore. Also could open up for a legitimate candidacy from the far-right, too early for Huckabee, but surely there is someone who fits his mold that could end up giving a face to the Constitution or Libertarian parties.

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I definitely agree that Lieberman should be a possible candidate to play as on the GOP side. Of course he should be off be default, as he should be Gore's vp by default. I think we should all remember that Lieberman (while economically and foreign policy wise a conservative) is still a Democrat. In reference to the need for a right-wing candidate, I believe that Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania would be the man to fill that role. Up until his defeat in the 2006 mid-terms he was the favorite of the Christian Right. Finally, in reference to AbeLincoln, I'm considering making this scenario myself with some help with redstateprogressive, because it really seems like he will make the scenario to much like a "Gore-Lovefest". I believe that with Gore there would not be 9/11 due to Gore's continuation of Clinton's anti-terror policies. On the economy, I believe that there would not be the post-9/11 downturn, but the economy wouldn't be as good as it was during the '90s. Also, there would be a deficit. Finally, the Republicans will control congress, but just barely. Gore will be favored to win, but not be a lot.

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What i'm planning is that it will be like the real 2004, except the more liberal swing states (Washington, Oregon, Michigan, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania unless it's against Santorum, Powell, or McCain) will be leaning Gore. Of course if Lieberman can beat Gore in the primaries things will favor the Republicans.

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All right. I've completed the candidates on both sides. On the Democratic side, with Lieberman off, Gore leads everywhere, though Sharpton and Kucinich have a shot in some states. With Lieberman on, states like Iowa have a shot at going to him, though it's an up hill battle for him. On the Republican side, without Bush, McCain leads in the west and midwest. Santorum leads in Pennsylvania and a few southern states. Thompson leads in the rest of the southern states. Powell and McCain are tied in the northeast, and powell is doing allright in the west coast. With Bush on he leads in many southern states and parts of the west.

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I really think you should explore the option to run as a Republican with Lieberman, as he is going to be with the Republicans for the next senate session - it's pretty clear that Reid wants him gone as soon as possible, they just need to tick off a few more senate seats in the fall.

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For the Republican candidates in 2004, you might want to add George Allen, Bill Frist to challenge the then maverack John McCain for their Parties nomination in 2004.

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Yeah I have Lieberman available (but off) as a candidate for all three parties. Here is the potential back story for the different options

Democrat: Due to his more moderate views on the economy and his support of the Iraq War he decides to challenge Gore, but is not willing to leave the party. This is somewhat similar to how Lieberman still caucuses with the Dems in the senate.

Independent: Lieberman is angry and leaves the party because he believes that there is no saving it or no chance to beat Gore in the primaries.

Republican: Lieberman is so angry at Gore at the Dems that he decides to leave the party altogether and run as a Republican

Obviously running as an Independent is the most logical as it automatically gives him a spot on the ballot in November.

As far as Allen and Frist, I sort of agree. The one problem is that there are so many conservative possibilities that i just chose the most logical (Bush, Santorum, Thompson). If you want to provide a good solution as far as polling numbers I'm listening. Plus, I'm so happy that folks are so excited about this scenario!

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Yeah that is a problem. But's lets be honest; could you really see Lieberman dropping as VP from one ticket just to VP on another?

Also, all I have left to do are party percentages, Lieberman's percentages in the GOP, and adding in the endorsers.

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Whoa, talk about getting a lot done, FM.

Thanks a lot for any help you want to provide, though I'd like to kind of see what you have so far on this, if at all possible. (Could you send me it via e-mail or something? redstateprogressive@hotmail.com)

Also, I have another Republican candidate idea : Chuck Hagel.

Any thoughts?

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sure thing. The last thing i want to do is take away the scenario from you. Chuck Hagel seems like a great idea, though he probably wouldn't have the appeal that he has now due to the Iraq War never happening (thank god) He will probably have a small lead over McCain in the northern plains states.

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Huge fan of the idea of making Lieberman run with the Republicans, would take a lot of work in the percentages, but could be great. You would start with Lieberman having to try to make inroads with conservatives in the primary, but if he can accomplish it, then the moderate side of the Democratic party could be easily convinced to turn on Gore. Also could open up for a legitimate candidacy from the far-right, too early for Huckabee, but surely there is someone who fits his mold that could end up giving a face to the Constitution or Libertarian parties.

i cannot wait for this!

wut if u did this:

leave lieberman off the veep list fro gore but on for dean and the other dem challengers

then make lieberman the second place but close behind candidate

or we could do wut we have talked about so far and then i could make the 2008 one which is the pretty much exact opposite of this 2008

Yeah I have Lieberman available (but off) as a candidate for all three parties. Here is the potential back story for the different options

Democrat: Due to his more moderate views on the economy and his support of the Iraq War he decides to challenge Gore, but is not willing to leave the party. This is somewhat similar to how Lieberman still caucuses with the Dems in the senate.

Independent: Lieberman is angry and leaves the party because he believes that there is no saving it or no chance to beat Gore in the primaries.

Republican: Lieberman is so angry at Gore at the Dems that he decides to leave the party altogether and run as a Republican

Obviously running as an Independent is the most logical as it automatically gives him a spot on the ballot in November.

As far as Allen and Frist, I sort of agree. The one problem is that there are so many conservative possibilities that i just chose the most logical (Bush, Santorum, Thompson). If you want to provide a good solution as far as polling numbers I'm listening. Plus, I'm so happy that folks are so excited about this scenario!

all right well...

lieberman should have leads in

connecticut

maine

new hampshire

mass.

vermont

new york

and good standings in the rest

im sorry but it is unclear to me who the candidates are so if those states above have a candidate usibg it as their home state dont have lieberman leading there

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sure thing. The last thing i want to do is take away the scenario from you. Chuck Hagel seems like a great idea, though he probably wouldn't have the appeal that he has now due to the Iraq War never happening (thank god) He will probably have a small lead over McCain in the northern plains states.

Hm, is it possible to try a rapid share link, or something? E-mail problems abound, it would seem. o:

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Alright folks, I've taken a little time off from this, but here is the candidate list

DEMOCRATS

Pres. Al Gore

Rep. Dennis Kucinich

Rev. Al Sharpton

VP Joe Lieberman (Off By Default)

REPUBLICANS

Sen. John McCain

Fmr. Gen. Colin Powell

Fmr. Gov. George Bush (Off by Default)

Sen. Rick Santorum

Fmr. Sen. Fred Thompson

VP Joe Lieberman (Off by Default)

INDEPENDENTS

Ralph Nader

LIBERTARIAN

Michael Badnarik

CONSTITUTION

Michael Peroutka

INDEPENDENT-LIEBERMAN

VP Joe Lieberman (Off by Default)

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