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Joe Clark? Did you create him in the standard 2004 scenario or what? Or did you play an 1979 election scenario?

And I don't think he's such a bad man personally. Even if I'm very left-wing, I think if I could have voted in 2000, I would have voted for him.

That's a pretty good indication that he was a lousy Conservative. :P

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  I knew that I had caught on to the game when I formed a majority government with Joe Clark of all people ;)

I was playing the '79 scenario and ran negative ads up the yin-yang against Trudeau and created a special attack ad to target the NDP in the Western provinces. I won 2 seats in all of Quebec (Howard Graffety obviously) and spent the bulk of my time and riding efforts in Ontario, punctuated by the occasional foray into the praries. I believe I crossed the finish line with something like 168 seats, which when you combine that total with the 13 that the Credistes won in Quebec meant a pretty good night for the Center-Right.

I don't think Joe Clark is a bad man on a personal level. He may very well be the most honest and sincere politician to grace Canadian Federal politics in the modern era. Much of what I think he spoke of in the sense of "Asymetrical federalism" seems to be coming to pass.

But as Tory leader, he failed to stem the tide of Trudeaumania, he failed to galvanize the political right, and if you were on the left why vote for the boring nice-guy "liberal-at-half-speed" politician when you could get the full-speed media darling in Trudeau or even red-line the engine by voting for the NDP? Furthermore his belief that he could resurrect the Progessive Conservatives all by his lonesome with only 12 seats in the commons and a huge campaign debt was a Quixotic enterprise if ever there was one. A true Machiavellian would have agreed to divide up the ridings with the alliance and then when Day or the Alliance fell flat on his face, show up as the knight in shining armor, glistening with all the glitter of the quote, mainstream, unquote, and with no campaign debt and a healthy Ontario Contingent in the Commons.

I agree, he was treated very unfairly by the media, just like his fellow red-Tory predecessor Robert Stanfield, but his performance from 1998 on was a sad way for one of Canada's most knowledgable and respected politicians to exit the stage (the applause he recieved at his final Tory convention was tepid compared to that of "Godfather" Brian Mulroney)

Alas, he faced the dilemma of the Federal Conservatives throughout modern history. The presence of Quebec in the federation makes any sort of right-of-center government damned near impossible to form--thus reducing Canada's major opposition party to be a pallid imitation of their governing counterparts; one that a predominantly left-wing electorate will always treat like the 2nd gal you asked to the dance after a falling out with your first girlfriend. Stephen Harper don't stay up too late waiting for the doorbell, the flowers, and the limousine.

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I like Clark not just because he's so sincere and honest, but because he refuses the right-wing etiquette and is more of a centrist. You know, the kind of "noblesse oblige" conservative who believes that we do have a responsability to help the downtrodden, a modern-day knight if I could say so :). I'd even say he's probably a bit more left-wing than Paul Martin.

If I wanted only an administrator and I thought that the present situation was about the best we could reach, he would be my first choice.

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Joe Clark? Did you create him in the standard 2004 scenario or what? Or did you play an 1979 election scenario?

And I don't think he's such a bad man personally. Even if I'm very left-wing, I think if I could have voted in 2000, I would have voted for him.

To win a majority govt. with Joe Clark in 1979, here's the key.

1) Run Adds on Inflation against Trudeau

2) Create some kind of add to attack Broadbent and prevent him from undermining you in BC and the praries

3)Spend most of your time in Ontario and BC with the odd foray into any of the other provinces except Alberta or Qubec.

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I like Clark not just because he's so sincere and honest, but because he refuses the right-wing etiquette and is more of a centrist. You know, the kind of "noblesse oblige" conservative who believes that we do have a responsability to help the downtrodden, a modern-day knight if I could say so :). I'd even say he's probably a bit more left-wing than Paul Martin.

If I wanted only an administrator and I thought that the present situation was about the best we could reach, he would be my first choice.

Well exactly, that proves my point about Clark. Everyone on the left loves the guy but when it comes to voting time there's always an IF attached. "IF I were looking for an administrator." "IF the liberal is too corrupt" "IF the NDP is too out of it." He's nobody's first choice. Nobody gives up their Saturdays and Sundays to hit the hustings for the guy.

Don't let my negative posts about him confuse you, I really like a lot of what he stands for. In terms of govt activism, I believe a well-managed welfare state can serve to make people freer by relieving them from the burdens of providing for health, housing, extra income. It's just that in Canda's political geography he was never quite a comfortable fit anwyhere. Perhaps he would have made a good premier of Nova Scotia.

Let me take the opportunity to wish Canadians good luck in their attempts to carve out an alternative path to American style corporate capitalism. I'm not a believer in letting people fend for themselves in a world where a car accident or a house fire or some randomn event can wipe out your nest egg. I'm just not with Canadian elites on Abortion, Gun Control, Immigration, Multi-Culturalism, etc.

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You're right as far as I know. Even when he was elected leader of the Progressive Conservative in 1979, there was something like five ballots, as the least successful were dropped off, he ended up being the second choice that made it to the big league. It's too bad for him.

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