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Vice Presidential Debate

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like i said before (which u never responded to) are u saying giving gays equal rights crosses the line

As I previously said, no, equal rights does not cross the line, however, gay marriage does. Civil unions, which would be equal but different would be acceptable. Quote frankly, you have not had the courage or moral fortitude to come clean with your own position on this contentious and divisive issue. All you have done is stand on the sidelines and snipe at me. Show some backbone. Show some leadership and clearly state your positon as I have done.

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The question is where do we draw the line?

We draw the line at already existing laws. There are laws on thebooks that make Polygamy Illegal. Petophelia whil a stupid example, is illegal. Being a homosexual is not illegal. yet anyway.

Are we not starting down a slippery slope here?

Yes we are, a slippery slope that leads to rights for popel that are just as law abiding as you.

Where do we go next?

Allowing people, and animals to marry. :rolleyes:

Who will demand the right to marry next?

<_< Maybe those shifty Martians will want to get married. <_<

Will polygamists demand the right to marry multiple partners because they truly love them?

Polygamy is Illegal. Expect in Utah...but Utah is weird.

Will pedophiles demand the right to marry children for the same reason?

Pedophelia is illegal. Pedophiles are people who get off on little children. Marrige is not thier prime goal.

What would be our basis for denying those demands and others if we give into one group?

Pedophelia is not "a group" it's a mental condition. Like Necrophelia, or Voyurism. And Polygamy as I have said, is illegal. And is not a "group". Homosexuals are a very large group of the population. They are not that way by choice.

What is wrong with a different and yet equal institution such as a civil union that does not interfere with the traditional definition of marriage?

Who's tradition? you've asked about Polygamy. Well in some cultures, polygamy is Tradition. You mean Judeo/Christian Tradition. Be Clear. Also, As I said, "Different but Equal" is not only an oxymoron, but it is a clear violation of the US constitution.

What are YOU afraid of I could ask? So what if we do something different from tradition? I hope you oppose all these reality shows where poeple marry midgets, and millionares. I hope you oppose divorse, since iit's not traditon. I hope you oppose women voting, it's not tradition. Tradition isn't always right. As I tried to say before. In the United States, tradition used to be, only white male land-owners could vote. That changed cause it's not right.

So answer that Question. What you YOU afraid of?

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I've got news for you, JoSpiv, the current laws say that gay marriage is illegal. The question, which you skirted around, was this: What is to stop others such as polygamists, from demanding that the laws be changed to suit them in the future?

You facetious example of allowing people and animals to marry may not be that far fetched. There are those sick individuals who enjoy carnal relations with animals. What would stop them from demanding the same "rights?" Polygamy is illegal just as gay marriage is illegal. What would stop polygamists from demanding that polygamous marriages be made legal?

Using your logic, choice is the determining factor then. If someone is the way they are, through no fault of their own, you are saying that they should be allowed to marry. Well, pedophiles are sick - they didn't get that way by choice - you could say that they were born that way. Does that not mean that, using your logic, they should also be allowed to marry? The same arguments that you use to endorse same sex marriage could be used by just about anyone to justify their own beliefs

Those "reality" shows that you speak of are a travesty and an example of all that is wrong with society today.

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Mantis, I would like to ask why you seem to think that gays are sub-human?

Swing Voter, I would like to ask you to quote the post where I said any such thing. Failing that, I demand that you retract that outright fraudulent statement. At no time have I ever said such a thing. Any rational, reasonable person reading this thread can clearly see that I have explicitly said the exact opposite.

You and others like you are indulging in mudslinging and distortions that are below any rational and reasonable person. Outright lies, fraudulent statements and character assasinations are not legitimate political tools. Those who make use of such things are simply highlighting their own lack of ideas and morals.

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Comparing gays to pedaphiles, which you have done!

Absolutely false. I suggest that you take off your blinders and re-read my posts. I used pedophiles as an example of another group that could make use of the exact same arguments that gays and lesbians have used in favour of gay marriage. At no time did I make any sort of comparison.

I notice that you still have yet to have the courage to actually join this debate and make your own views known. That is shameful. That is also a clear display of a lack of leadership.

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Mantis, I would like to ask why you seem to think that gays are sub-human?

Swing voter, I would ask you again to quote even one of my posts where I said any such thing. I am also demanding, again, that you retract that fraudulent statement. I never said any such thing, nor do I believe any such thing.

Drop the crap, Swing Voter and have the backbone and moral fortitude to actually make your position known. Have the guts to actually say something as opposed to standing safely on the sidelines making false and misleading statements about my position.

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But I have stated that if you read my above post the one where I said "Same sex marrige is a wonderful idea! We should not preach the value of liberating people in Iraq when we cannot give our own people the right to marry. " that would give you an idea, but if you can not figure it out from that I Support Same Sex Marrige 100% That give you an idea, now should we stay here or go to the other board?

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Yes, I Agree. It is incredilby offensive that you compare homosexuals to pedophiles. Homosexuality is not due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. Pedophelia is. Maybe you don't understand the other words I sued. Necrophelia, and Voyuerism. Those also are sexual disorders. Are you saying that Homoseuxlaity is a sexual disorder??? If that is the case, you are not a serious person and this discussion is over.

You also said, Gay Marrige is illegal. It is not. There is no law in the state of New Jersey that states Gay Marrige is illegal. Gay Marrige is simply not recognized. If it were illegal, then it would have been a criminal offense to marry them. I don't see any people being put in jail for it. I do not like being negative, but you are a scary person. If someone wants to marry an animal, they are fucking crazy, and yo know what, I really don't care. As long as they don't bother anyone, why can't they live in thier little fantasy world. This may come as a surpirse you, but for some people sex does not equal marrige. A pedohpile doesn't want to marry the children, nor jsut cause someone likes to get with a sheep, do they want to marry them. You are living in a conservative dreamland.

Do you have any homosexual friends? I you do, tell them you compared them to pedophiles, and polyamists. Tell them, you think they don't deserve to get married because of your one sided view of the world.

Finally, if your answer to, "what are you afraid of?" is "WHERE COULD IT STOP????". Then I cannot help you. As I said, you are ttrapped in some dreamland where morallity is more important than equality. You're talk about "different but equal" is Bull Shit. I have tried many times to explain why that won't work, but you won't listen. All the people discriminated against, the Jews, Blacks, Women, Native Americans, is goes on and on have been told they are different, but equal. Soon it changed to, "More different than equal". And finally to, "Different, so unequal". If you don't believe me, READ A BOOK.

I'm done. I can only be nice for so long.

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Yes, I Agree.  It is incredilby offensive that you compare homosexuals to pedophiles.

Jospiv, you are disgracing yourself by continuing to spread that lie. I am incredibly offended that you refuse to be an adult and refuse to stick to the issues and more importantly, to the truth. I challenge you to quote one of my posts where I COMPARED HOMOSEXUALS TO PEDOPHILES. I never did any such thing. Since you seem to have trouble grapsing reality, let me try one last time to clarify that.

If you take off your blinders and actually read my posts, you will CLEARLY see that I simply made the argument that pedophiles COULD use the same arguments that gays and lesbians used to justify gay marriage to justify their perversions. I did not at any time make any comparision nor did I suggest that all gays are pedophiles.

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Oh, we are going on with this topic, right??? :unsure:

No, until JoSpiv launched another attack, I had believed that we were moving onto a new topic. As far as I know, we are simply waiting for an unbiased question to start the next topic.

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