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Time for walk outs and strikes


Anthony_270
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I don't know the answer to this, but I'm just thinking now---were and are smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. mandatory? I think some or all of these are. Is this tyranny? I'm guessing not since you tend to only have to prove these when applying to jobs or college, but it is assumed everyone has these vaccines, which isn't the case with vaccinations from unpredictable pandemics. 

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20 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I don't know the answer to this, but I'm just thinking now---were and are smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. mandatory? I think some or all of these are. Is this tyranny? I'm guessing not since you tend to only have to prove these when applying to jobs or college, but it is assumed everyone has these vaccines, which isn't the case with vaccinations from unpredictable pandemics. 

Is there a point where you would say the government has gone too far? For example, your government is now 'recommending' a 3rd shot of Pfizer-Moderna for people. Should that be mandated also? A 4th? A 5th? Would you just keep taking shots as long as the government says you have to? Just curious how you view this. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

Is there a point where you would say the government has gone too far? For example, your government is now 'recommending' a 3rd shot of Pfizer-Moderna for people. Should that be mandated also? A 4th? A 5th? Would you just keep taking shots as long as the government says you have to? Just curious how you view this. 

 

Sure. Here are some conditions in which the "government goes too far."

  • The pandemic is over: COVID infections and deaths have now reached pre-January 2020-levels; yet, the Federal, state, and/or local governments are still mandating further shots, masks inside buildings, etc. 
  • COVID has not gone into any new variations and there is no proof of vaccinations wearing off; yet, the federal, state, and/or local government are still mandating taken further vaccines. 

In response to your last question, it isn't the government, it's the leading health and pandemic experts, especially those not formally part of WHO or CDC. I'm talking about the ones that often teach at universities and are just obsessed with learning about pandemics and figuring out ways to deal with them. If the government says to take further vaccines, but health and science experts are mostly saying "no." Then I won't do what the government says. If the leading health and science experts are saying "no" while WHO, CDC, Big Pharma and other organizations are saying "yes," then I'll go with the experts. The best experts are those that have a sort of autism-like obsession with understanding the pandemic and don't have political, celebrity, or control motives. I'm of the opinion that most university professors that aren't formally part of the government or part of a major organization are like this. I also think these organization are wise to not contradict the experts because it weakens their credibility. 

Overall, the worst part of the pandemic for those that never get sick is that it is annoying and inconvenient. What I'd like to do is poll the % of anti-mask/vaccine mandate and pro-mask/vaccine mandate and see figures unattached with politics -- Age, Military Experience, Selfishness vs Altruistic, etc. especially this latter one. The who mask and vaccine thing requires a lot of thinking about other people--almost all of whom you will never meet. It also requires caring about people that refuse to get vaccinated, since they're often the ones you're wearing the mask to protect. 

The Delta Variant is bad in a new way. It's contagious for children. In addition to adjunct teaching at Drexel U, I'm also working for a publishing company. My boss at the publishing company let us know that his 5 year old son caught COVID. Who knows how he got it, but he blames people that weren't wearing a mask. 

In other news, my oldest friend (since 1st grade) and his GF just recovered from COVID. They live in Arlington, TX. Neither got vaccinated. They're that Liberal demographic that doesn't vote even though they're strongly opinionated (both hated Trump) and active politically online. Voting and getting a vaccine is inconvenient. They were sick for like 3 weeks. Terribly for 1 week, but they didn't get their sense of smell or taste back for 3 weeks. Considering the both work in person, I can't even imagine how many people they might have given COVID to before they realized that they had it. 

Did you see the video of Trump at a rally in Alabama? Even he was telling his supporters to get the vaccine, but it led to the crowd boo'ing. I give Trump points for standing up to his anti-vax followers. I know that isn't easy for him to do, so it makes it all the more courageous for him to do it. 

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9 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Sure.

That's interesting - thanks for this. So to be clear, if this turns into an annual requirement for a 'booster' shot in order to engage in basic civic society, have a job, and so on, you're OK with that?

Also, what do you think is the rationale for coercing people to get these injections if they've already had Covid and recovered (which according to the CDC is about 1/3 of the US population)?

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12 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Did you see the video of Trump at a rally in Alabama? Even he was telling his supporters to get the vaccine, but it led to the crowd boo'ing.

Oh yes - these are the 'Trump vaccines' - organized, expedited, and approved for emergency authorization under his admin. What would you expect? He's one of their biggest fans. In fact, if Trump were still President you'd probably be seeing significantly less 'vaccine hesitancy' on the right and much more on the left.

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34 minutes ago, vcczar said:

If the government says to take further vaccines, but health and science experts are mostly saying "no."

Are you aware that there has been a large amount of coercion and suppression of views among these very people? I know someone well who has spoken with a prominent researcher in a relevant field in Canada who started talking publicly about myocarditis associated with the mRNA injections - his university took severe actions against him for doing so. That's just one incident among many that I'm aware of involving suppression and censorship of people not saying the 'government-approved' view.

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3 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

That's interesting - thanks for this. So to be clear, if this turns into an annual requirement for a 'booster' shot in order to engage in basic civic society, have a job, and so on, you're OK with that?

Also, what do you think is the rationale for coercing people to get these injections if they've already had Covid and recovered (which according to the CDC is about 1/3 of the US population)?

Yeah, I’m more or less okay with that. Doesn’t rub me the wrong way or anything. Sort of just a civic duty like getting a flu shot, voting, jury duty, getting car inspected etc. No big deal. Just a trifle. 
 

I would have to read what the experts say about recovered COVID victims in regards to that last question. 

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3 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

Oh yes - these are the 'Trump vaccines' - organized, expedited, and approved for emergency authorization under his admin. What would you expect? He's one of their biggest fans. In fact, if Trump were still President you'd probably be seeing significantly less 'vaccine hesitancy' on the right and much more on the left.

I disagree. Liberal we’re eager to get vaccinated even with Trump vaccines. I think some on the right are the only ones significantly opposing that vaccines, whether under Trump or Biden. The only liberal demographic that is against vaccines are some members of the black community. There’s also the more radical Sanders supporters of whom some oppose vaccines. Neither of these are for political reasons so the president wouldn’t matter. I do think Trump could help vaccinate people. He could do a lot by touring the country on a pro-vaccine tour. 

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3 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

Did you know this is impossible? Covid will always have new variations. It's how these sorts of viruses work.

I’ll clarify by saying variations that aren’t mostly nothing. For instance Lambda, I hear isn’t really that bad. If the only variations are like Lambda, then there might not be a reason to continue Covid protocol. Although Covid shots should probably be given with flu shots. 

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2 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

Are you aware that there has been a large amount of coercion and suppression of views among these very people? I know someone well who has spoken with a prominent researcher in a relevant field in Canada who started talking publicly about myocarditis associated with the mRNA injections - his university took severe actions against him for doing so. That's just one incident among many that I'm aware of involving suppression and censorship of people not saying the 'government-approved' view.

I’d like a name of the suppressed voices to see who they are. There really shouldn’t be suppressing these views, if they are. I’m more concerned with voices lacking credibility getting attention on the pandemic, regardless of their stance on it. 
 

Sounds like Canada doesn’t have the same protection of their professors as we do. If I were a pandemic expert I could criticize the Covid policy without the university cracking down on me. However, I’d probably be shunned by most other experts considering they’re almost unanimously in support of masks and vaccines and are likely right on the matter, considering they’re eminent in this field. 

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

I’d probably be shunned by most other experts considering they’re almost unanimously in support of masks and vaccines

The question here isn't whether one 'supports' these sorts of injections. In the case I'm referring to, it was stating something that is now widely agreed upon - that myocarditis is a side-effect of these injections. 

But more generally, it's not that either. It's whether it is wise to not allow people to have a job, not allow them to engage in basic civic life, not allow them to travel domestically, and so on, if they decide not to get one, and to allow the government to constantly monitor and control where people can go.

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My province has one of the most injected populations on the planet. It doesn't matter - indoor mask mandate is back.

Another bait and switch. People were told if enough people got injected, there wouldn't be mask mandates. We surpassed that 'target'.

At what point does a critical mass of people simply start to ignore health authorities, who have been wrong time again?

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NZ now has quarantine camps ('managed isolation facilities'). You have to go if you are a 'case', and you cannot leave until the government says so. (Did I mention they're also back in nationwide lock-down?)

That's not an infringement of civil liberties! I'm sure there's an historical precedent for it, so no prob. I'm waiting until I can see some Real Tyranny (TM) before I start to speak out.

"Papers, please!" "Oh yes, sir, I have them right here. Thank you for Keeping Me Safe (TM)."

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20 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

My province has one of the most injected populations on the planet. It doesn't matter - indoor mask mandate is back.

Another bait and switch. People were told if enough people got injected, there wouldn't be mask mandates. We surpassed that 'target'.

At what point does a critical mass of people simply start to ignore health authorities, who have been wrong time again?

You see, the thing is t.re,jthenvejr nvroevnernvrouenvoietnvioernvoipewnv;kwqenks;ldvnlks;nvqwpoenwv4uin2408nv92n823nv80N824N824n89234v980243n98023nv0932nvipon.jdnvefjkvnsdjlknvkfljdsvniew4932vn30982nadksfvnfljenkjdsfnvjn38409nv240n9054n98250nvAMPUtueiwnvuiwoen293804nvn32v23489N23VOIPNVDKFNVWKFENQ39WN3V9RNV209NVNWERLJRNV

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1 minute ago, WatchMojo said:

You see, the thing is t.re,jthenvejr nvroevnernvrouenvoietnvioernvoipewnv;kwqenks;ldvnlks;nvqwpoenwv4uin2408nv92n823nv80N824N824n89234v980243n98023nv0932nvipon.jdnvefjkvnsdjlknvkfljdsvniew4932vn30982nadksfvnfljenkjdsfnvjn38409nv240n9054n98250nvAMPUtueiwnvuiwoen293804nvn32v23489N23VOIPNVDKFNVWKFENQ39WN3V9RNV209NVNWERLJRNV

sorry i slipped and hit my head on the keyboard

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5 minutes ago, WatchMojo said:

You see, the thing is t.re,jthenvejr nvroevnernvrouenvoietnvioernvoipewnv;kwqenks;ldvnlks;nvqwpoenwv4uin2408nv92n823nv80N824N824n89234v980243n98023nv0932nvipon.jdnvefjkvnsdjlknvkfljdsvniew4932vn30982nadksfvnfljenkjdsfnvjn38409nv240n9054n98250nvAMPUtueiwnvuiwoen293804nvn32v23489N23VOIPNVDKFNVWKFENQ39WN3V9RNV209NVNWERLJRNV

Ya, that's about the extent of the arguments for trusting the government about these things.

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59 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

@vcczar Here's just the latest example I've come across of the sort of people you cite as being the authorities being censored.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/frances-long-time-vaccine-policy-chief-covid-policy-is-completely-stupid-and-unethical

Thanks for sending. I agree credibly-sourced alternative voices like this should not be censored, but rather, they should actually be brought up and counter-pointed by the expert-majority viewpoint, if only to explain why this French physician might be wrong. 
 

I’d like to read something responding specifically to this interview. 
 

Doesn’t seem like he’s completely silenced iF he got this interview. 
 

I don’t have much time so I only read the bold Parts. Thanks for sharing. Interesting. 

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