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Watching and Playing More Elections


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4 hours ago, Jinsu Kim said:

Confederate 1879

John B. Gordon/Matt Ransom
Alexander S. Wallace/James Alcorn
Joe Brown/Preston Leslie
Joseph Rainey/Blanche Bruce

Confederate1879.JPG

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I've always noticed the alternate history fiction where the Confederacy survives the Civil War and maintains independence also has it becoming quite successful - as that expansionist map indicates. It would almost certainly become a dirt-poor backwater and pariah in the world community, non-industrialized and relying on a backward agrarian under a repugnant form of labour with a key commodity it soon no longer be able to sell because of the stain of slave labour (especially after the Khedive of Egypt began selling affordable Nile cotton at that same time without that stain), and would probably beg to to return to the Union or join the British Empire under whatever terms were given (including the full and unconditional abolition of flavour), fall to a brutal and bloody Haiti-like slave revolt, or be - yes- annexed by Mexico. Turtledove and others never think realistically, here.

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14 hours ago, Patine said:

I've always noticed the alternate history fiction where the Confederacy survives the Civil War and maintains independence also has it becoming quite successful - as that expansionist map indicates. It would almost certainly become a dirt-poor backwater and pariah in the world community, non-industrialized and relying on a backward agrarian under a repugnant form of labour with a key commodity it soon no longer be able to sell because of the stain of slave labour (especially after the Khedive of Egypt began selling affordable Nile cotton at that same time without that stain), and would probably beg to to return to the Union or join the British Empire under whatever terms were given (including the full and unconditional abolition of flavour), fall to a brutal and bloody Haiti-like slave revolt, or be - yes- annexed by Mexico. Turtledove and others never think realistically, here.

In this timeline, the Confederacy is not exactly a country. Something like "a country in a country." It is still part of the US, but it elects its regional leaders.

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5 hours ago, Jinsu Kim said:

In this timeline, the Confederacy is not exactly a country. Something like "a country in a country." It is still part of the US, but it elects its regional leaders.

I'm more confused, now.

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14 hours ago, Patine said:

I'm more confused, now.

James Buchanan got elected to be CSA's President. The war ended in a compromise (that's not what I would want to happen IRL, though). The South will have slavery, but the North will not have slavery. The South will be a part of the US, but will  have ability to govern its own affairs. If a law passes Congress, the law will not be applied to the South if both the Confederate President and  more than 2/3 of the Confederate legislature  chooses to reject it. Reconstruction never happens.

I know this timeline doesn't exactly make sense. This is just my attempt to squeeze in as many scenarios as possible.

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5 minutes ago, Jinsu Kim said:

James Buchanan got elected to be CSA's President. The war ended in a compromise (that's not what I would want to happen IRL, though). The South will have slavery, but the North will not have slavery. The South will be a part of the US, but will  have ability to govern its own affairs. If a law passes Congress, the law will not be applied to the South if both the Confederate President and  more than 2/3 of the Confederate legislature  chooses to reject it. Reconstruction never happens.

I know this timeline doesn't exactly make sense. This is just my attempt to squeeze in as many scenarios as possible.

And I would assume the South's economy would still collapse and undermine the whole process and purpose of two separate "nations within nations," because of the inevitable near impossibility of selling cotton abroad, as I mentioned above, yes?

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Just now, Patine said:

And I would assume the South's economy would still collapse and undermine the whole process and purpose of two separate "nations within nations," because of the inevitable near impossibility of selling cotton abroad, as I mentioned above, yes?

Yes, and slavery will eventually die out, but segregation will come in.

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Just now, Jinsu Kim said:

Yes, and slavery will eventually die out, but segregation will come in.

And those Latin American nations will be unmanageable pits of guerilla warfare and unholdable in a viable or profitable way in the long-term, yes?

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