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1 hour ago, Patine said:

Off-topic. Political commentary. Reported. Admin, please deal with this new troublemaking poster with a blatant variant of your handle name we all know well - @admin_270.¬†ūü§®

I agree - totally should be banned.

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If you had never joined this forum, we would still be having political discussions. 

Because that means you're an idiot snowflake who cant take anything even though you brought on a stupid conversation. Ban super, ban anyone, ban me for all I care. Super was commenting on a topic you

Believe it or not, while it may be a minority of people, some would like to see what Patine is talking about be realized, even if it is a small chance. I enjoy K4E and PMI more than I do PI. It's a ma

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1 minute ago, Jinsu Kim said:

Who?

The administrator of this site recently altered his forum handle name. I was taking the opportunity of his latest post to make light of that - and of his "no off-topic, no-political commentary," rule breach. ;)

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Amazing how institutionalized our society is. Take teaching for example. In the old days, you just had someone who wanted to teach kids (usually an unmarried woman, often in their teens). There would be some parents in the area who wanted a teacher who would teach their kids useful skills (= usually reading, writing, basic math). Voila, you have a school.

Nowadays, it's public schooling and public schooling is a giant, expensive, bureaucratic, monopolistic tragedy. Really folks, you can get what you want in a much simpler, cheaper, more flexible way.

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21 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

Amazing how institutionalized our society is. Take teaching for example. In the old days, you just had someone who wanted to teach kids (usually an unmarried woman, often in their teens). There would be some parents in the area who wanted a teacher who would teach their kids useful skills (= usually reading, writing, basic math). Voila, you have a school.

Nowadays, it's public schooling and public schooling is a giant, expensive, bureaucratic, monopolistic tragedy. Really folks, you can get what you want in a much simpler, cheaper, more flexible way.

Okay 

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28 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

Amazing how institutionalized our society is. Take teaching for example. In the old days, you just had someone who wanted to teach kids (usually an unmarried woman, often in their teens). There would be some parents in the area who wanted a teacher who would teach their kids useful skills (= usually reading, writing, basic math). Voila, you have a school.

Nowadays, it's public schooling and public schooling is a giant, expensive, bureaucratic, monopolistic tragedy. Really folks, you can get what you want in a much simpler, cheaper, more flexible way.

Here we see, the wild insane man in his natural habitat. Spouting the weirdest nonsense from the darkest insides of his mind. He fantasizes about the young teenage unmarried woman, not understanding that cultural norms moved past that many many years ago.

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49 minutes ago, superezione said:

Here we see, the wild insane man in his natural habitat. Spouting the weirdest nonsense from the darkest insides of his mind. He fantasizes about the young teenage unmarried woman, not understanding that cultural norms moved past that many many years ago.

My grandmother was a teacher while she was a teenager. Please stop. And you're banned indefinitely.

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2 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

Amazing how institutionalized our society is. Take teaching for example. In the old days, you just had someone who wanted to teach kids (usually an unmarried woman, often in their teens). There would be some parents in the area who wanted a teacher who would teach their kids useful skills (= usually reading, writing, basic math). Voila, you have a school.

Nowadays, it's public schooling and public schooling is a giant, expensive, bureaucratic, monopolistic tragedy. Really folks, you can get what you want in a much simpler, cheaper, more flexible way.

Actually, the original teachers of youth were clergy, ordained and lay (Christian Priests and Preachers, Jewish Rabbi, Islamic Imams, etc., each for their own religious community), who viewed such instruction as part of their spiritual and community duties. The unmarried young woman is also, relatively speaking, quite recent in history as, 'the teacher," archetype, to be honest.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Actually, the original teachers of youth were clergy, ordained and lay (Christian Priests and Preachers, Jewish Rabbi, Islamic Imams, etc., each for their own religious community), who viewed such instruction as part of their spiritual and community duties. The unmarried young woman is also, relatively speaking, quite recent in history as, 'the teacher," archetype, to be honest.

True, education was often religious in nature through European history.

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5 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

True, education was often religious in nature through European history.

Not just European. The Islamic World, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and East Asia as well, and pre-Christian and -Islamic cultures in Europe, the Middle-East, Central Asia, and North, West, and the Horn of Africa, in Antiquity, as well. Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican and Andean Civilizations had their religious figures involved intimately in instructing youth as well. Even a lot of tribal cultures had their shamanic figure having important junctures in the teaching of youth - especially in rites of passage and passing down songs and stories. To say specifically, "European culture," would not even remotely cover the scope that traditional religious education was prevalent in the world. It was everywhere!

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Just now, Patine said:

Not just European. The Islamic World, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and East Asia as well. Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican and Andean Civilizations had their religious figures involved intimately in instructing youth as well. Even a lot of tribal cultures had their shamanic figure having important junctures in the teaching of youth - especially in rites of passage and passing down songs and stories. To say specifically, "European culture," would not even remotely cover the scope that traditional religious education was prevalent in the world. It was everywhere!

Yes, also true. My original comment was referring the European-descendant civilization.

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3 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

Amazing how institutionalized our society is. Take teaching for example. In the old days, you just had someone who wanted to teach kids (usually an unmarried woman, often in their teens). There would be some parents in the area who wanted a teacher who would teach their kids useful skills (= usually reading, writing, basic math). Voila, you have a school.

Nowadays, it's public schooling and public schooling is a giant, expensive, bureaucratic, monopolistic tragedy. Really folks, you can get what you want in a much simpler, cheaper, more flexible way.

I increasingly distrust institutions and think this transcends politics.

Existing institutions can't be reformed in my opinion and probably should be dismantled or at the least replaced with parallel institutions (for disintermediation).

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Just now, Anthony_270 said:

Yes, also true. My original comment was referring the European-descendant civilization.

And, even, then, the original non-religious pedagogues were men (from Socrates to the old Renaissance University types, and beyond, and even at the local level). Again, the unmarried young woman is relatively quite recent as a teaching role.

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6 minutes ago, populist86 said:

I increasingly distrust institutions and think this transcends politics.

Institutions can't be reformed in my opinion and probably should be dismantled or at the least replaced with parallel institutions (for disintermediation).

Outright dismantling them would be Anarchistic and Deconstructionist, and even Nihilistic, given the empirical effect such an action would have on society. However, they CAN be reformed (it's not like laws of physics or Divine law govern them), it just takes real social and political WILL and DEDICATION - something that I know is is short supply among current political leadership - which is another reason I think they (and the major, dominant and incumbent political parties and factions they represent) should be replaced with new leaders and new visions wholesale, but not just vapid and incendiary populists, but those with real and alternative plans and ideas for betterment, reform, and change.

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13 minutes ago, Patine said:

And, even, then, the original non-religious pedagogues were men (from Socrates to the old Renaissance University types, and beyond, and even at the local level). Again, the unmarried young woman is relatively quite recent as a teaching role.

Wasn't the point. Point was that it's not that complicated to start up, and there was much less bureaucracy and cost involved.

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Just now, Anthony_270 said:

Wasn't the point. Point was that it's not that complicated to start up, and there was much less bureaucracy and cost involved.

There was also much less to teach with the hopes of success in life back then. It's not JUST bureaucracy and costs. The "three R's," just aren't enough, anymore, unless the student is content with a potential future life in an unskilled labour or services job, or has the gumption for a lot of self-education (and can actually be accredited meaningfully for it).

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15 minutes ago, populist86 said:

I increasingly distrust institutions and think this transcends politics.

Existing institutions can't be reformed in my opinion and probably should be dismantled or at the least replaced with parallel institutions (for disintermediation).

Ya, it's often really tough to reform existing institutions. Sometimes they can be reformed, sometimes they just collapse once given a little shove at a certain point.

I'm all for building new institutions, but really, we don't need so many. Less, more decentralized, more local, IMHO. Why do we have centralized curricula? There's no need for it - let local teachers and parents make their own choices.

Science is another example. Originally, it was a bunch of amateurs paid little to nothing. They beat the pants off of science nowadays in breakthroughs.

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

There was also much less to teach with the hopes of success in life back then.

Don't think this is true at all. Trades have always been with us. Cooper, Foster, Fletcher, Smith, and so on. Even things like 'roboticist' have historical analogues - people making machinery, wind-mills, and so on.

In the past, the large majority of people were the equivalent of small-business owners - either they ran a farm, or a trade.

Nowadays, the large majority of people are the historical equivalent of servants, we just have a different name for it - 'employees'.

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1 minute ago, Anthony_270 said:

Ya, it's often really tough to reform existing institutions. Sometimes they can be reformed, sometimes they just collapse once given a little shove at a certain point.

I'm all for building new institutions, but really, we don't need so many. Less, more decentralized, more local, IMHO. Why do we have centralized curricula? There's no need for it - let local teachers and parents make their own choices.

Science is another example. Originally, it was a bunch of amateurs paid little to nothing. They beat the pants off of science nowadays in breakthroughs.

What a "Thomas Jefferson view," of the issue. Unfortunately, his ideals would be woefully unworkable and out-of-place (and highly out-of-touch) in the modern world for so many reasons - just like your similar emulations of the moods of his purviews are. The world doesn't work this way anymore - for better and for worse - and pretending it does, or can realistically be made to do so is part of the, "toxic nostalgia," I had brought up a while ago, here, in another context. It's one thing to reminisce over "the good ol' days," - the problem comes in the catastrophes, chaos, and even atrocities of actively trying to, "bring them back."

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2 minutes ago, Anthony_270 said:

Don't think this is true at all. Trades have always been with us. Cooper, Foster, Fletcher, Smith, and so on. Even things like 'roboticist' have historical analogues - people making machinery, wind-mills, and so on.

In the past, the large majority of people were the equivalent of small-business owners - either they ran a farm, or a trade.

Nowadays, the large majority of people are the historical equivalent of servants, we just have a different name for it - 'employees'.

I still think you're trying to apply old paradigms that just don't work and are not extant anymore. Plus, those older forms of education de-emphasized the social sciences, or "humanities," as they were once called, except in a very cursory and parochial viewpoint - and THAT was a huge shortcoming, right there.

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1 minute ago, Anthony_270 said:

ūüėä

Can you name some of the reasons the picture I outline above is woefully unworkable?

If you have to ask, then I don't even know where to start...¬†ūüėí

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4 hours ago, Anthony_270 said:

Amazing how institutionalized our society is. Take teaching for example. In the old days, you just had someone who wanted to teach kids (usually an unmarried woman, often in their teens). There would be some parents in the area who wanted a teacher who would teach their kids useful skills (= usually reading, writing, basic math). Voila, you have a school.

Nowadays, it's public schooling and public schooling is a giant, expensive, bureaucratic, monopolistic tragedy. Really folks, you can get what you want in a much simpler, cheaper, more flexible way.

It's brainwashing today plain and simple. The idea of thinking for yourself is "cancelled" in favor of group think and mob mentality. 

You question anything that is taught to you, you're labeled crazy or evil. And the agenda most of these people at the top have only benefit certain groups and totally demonize and goes against certain groups specifically. 

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Just now, PoliticalPundit said:

It's brainwashing today plain and simple. The idea of thinking for yourself is "cancelled" in favor of group think and mob mentality. 

You question anything that is taught to you, you're labeled crazy or evil. And the agenda most of these people at the top have only benefit certain groups and totally demonize and goes against certain groups specifically. 

While I agree things are headed in such a dire direction in certain areas, and especially on "hot-button, zeitgeist," topics, I don't think we've YET reached quite the level of Orwellian "1984" Oceanian "1+1=3 or you're committing treason, just like Emmanuel Goldstein, who must be mandatorily hated for 5 minutes every day," level that you seem to be portraying. But the tendencies and directions are indeed worrisome. I will agree with you (for once!) on the dark social path one sees being paved, if not how far we are in that direction at this point. But it is something that worries me, too.

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