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If Trump loses, where does he rank among defeated incumbents?


vcczar
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Defeated Incumbents Poll  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. If Trump loses (which seems likely), which other defeated incumbents would you say were WORSE presidents than Pres. Trump?

    • Pres. John Adams, who was defeated by Thomas Jefferson in 1800.
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    • Pres. John Quincy Adams, who was defeated by Andrew Jackson in 1828.
    • Pres. Martin Van Buren, who was defeated by William Henry Harrison in 1840.
    • Pres. Grover Cleveland, who was defeated by Benjamin Harrison in 1888.
    • Pres. Benjamin Harrison, who was defeated by former Pres. Grover Cleveland in 1892.
    • Pres. William Howard Taft, who was defeated by Woodrow Wilson in 1912.
    • Pres. Herbert Hoover, who was defeated by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1932.
    • Pres. Jimmy Carter, who was defeated by Ronald Reagan in 1980.
    • Pres. George HW Bush, who was defeated by Bill Clinton in 1992.
    • Pres. Trump is worse than all of these defeated incumbents if he loses to Joe Biden, becoming the 10th defeated incumbent in US History. That is, if Trump loses, he will be the worst president that was defeated as an incumbent.


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Hoover and Trump are basically a tie for me, but for totally different reasons. I think Trump will be overall more damaging than Hoover was, so I picked Trump as the worst. 

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18 minutes ago, vcczar said:

new poll

Although I'm still considering my vote (leaning to Hoover or Bush, Sr.), I'd be dubious of anyone who voted Cleveland, because he was the only one that came back - after some snide and smug comments about the bedsheets in the White House.

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2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

@Conservative Elector 2 I'm just curious why you think Cleveland was worse than Trump? That's a very unique opinion, considering who all else is on this list.

I don't know, I never got to appreciate Cleveland very much. Perhaps my negative opinion is because I see myself more aligned with McKinley or Harrison during that time. The gilded age is a bit weird, while I had favored Tilden to become president, I also think Hayes wasn't that bad.  

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6 minutes ago, TheMiddlePolitical said:

Do you think Trump will run again in 2024? @vcczar

Assuming he doesn't croak, quite possibly. Though, his fast food diet mixed with a term as U.S. President (bad for anyone's health) and his populist haranguing might possibly mean he's simply unable to due to unavoidable circumstances...

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11 minutes ago, TheMiddlePolitical said:

Do you think Trump will run again in 2024? @vcczar

I don't know. I don't think he really liked being president, honestly. He just seemed angry all the time and unhappy. I think he'll keep talking as if he wants to, but I don't think he will. I think Don Jr runs but won't get anywhere. I don't think Trump gets nominated if he does run again. He might not want that kind of defeat. Although, I kind of hope he runs and gets demolished in the primaries. 

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I honestly don't know enough about the first 5 to say if they were worse, except for maybe John Adams who's low on my list but not Trump low. Of Taft, Hoover, Carter, and Bush, I picked Hoover because while I don't think he was definitively worse than Trump, you could make a valid argument for it.

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23 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I don't know, I never got to appreciate Cleveland very much. Perhaps my negative opinion is because I see myself more aligned with McKinley or Harrison during that time. The gilded age is a bit weird, while I had favored Tilden to become president, I also think Hayes wasn't that bad.  

Cleveland was as much Pro-Gold as McKinley. Cleveland was much more for limited government. He was for free trade while McKinley was a staunch protectionist. Cleveland was more about giving offices based on merit and washing out corruption. McKinley was more establishment and okay with corruption and awarding offices to loyalists. Cleveland wasn't an imperialist. McKinley was. Tilden would have been about the same as president as Cleveland. 

Cleveland is basically a 19th century Ron Paul in many ways. He's the closest post-Civil War president we've had to a libertarian probably. 

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

Cleveland was as much Pro-Gold as McKinley. Cleveland was much more for limited government. He was for free trade while McKinley was a staunch protectionist. Cleveland was more about giving offices based on merit and washing out corruption. McKinley was more establishment and okay with corruption and awarding offices to loyalists. Cleveland wasn't an imperialist. McKinley was. Tilden would have been about the same as president as Cleveland. 

Cleveland is basically a 19th century Ron Paul in many ways. He's the closest post-Civil War president we've had to a libertarian probably. 

That sounds not that bad actually.

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John Quincy Adams and Hoover. Quincy Adams was a nice guy and ahead of his time, but the way he was elected is totally undemocratic. This is probably why congress opposed him, and why he was a lame duck. Trump at least passed legislation. Trump at least won the electoral college. Adams also was pro-tariff, which is a stance I oppose very strongly.

Hoover was the wrong kind of leader at the wrong time, and although I don’t blame him for the timing of the Great Depression I blame him for the response. His decision to increase Tariffs killed trade and made a recession into the Great Depression. His actions towards homeless veterans and the “Hoovervilles” didn’t help either. Trump made efforts to fix the economic recession which worked (to varying degrees), and that alone makes him better than Hoover IMO.

Carter is debatable.

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3 hours ago, vcczar said:

Cleveland was as much Pro-Gold as McKinley. Cleveland was much more for limited government. He was for free trade while McKinley was a staunch protectionist. Cleveland was more about giving offices based on merit and washing out corruption. McKinley was more establishment and okay with corruption and awarding offices to loyalists. Cleveland wasn't an imperialist. McKinley was. Tilden would have been about the same as president as Cleveland. 

Cleveland is basically a 19th century Ron Paul in many ways. He's the closest post-Civil War president we've had to a libertarian probably. 

I'd argue Coolidge was more Libertarian post-Civil War but that's a good analysis.

Who do you think was the most Libertarian pre-Civil War? Van Buren? Jefferson? Jackson?

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54 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I'd argue Coolidge was more Libertarian post-Civil War but that's a good analysis.

Who do you think was the most Libertarian pre-Civil War? Van Buren? Jefferson? Jackson?

Coolidge was a protectionist. 

Pre-Civil War? John Tyler probably. 

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Only Buchanan and A. Johnson were worse and neither of them chose to seek a second term. So Trump goes down as the worst in this cstegory.

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11 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

Only Buchanan and A. Johnson were worse and neither of them chose to seek a second term. So Trump goes down as the worst in this cstegory.

There are a few others I, myself, would say are worse, and of them, only one CHOSE not to run again. I'd say Trump's incompetence and ineffectiveness (compared to what he probably could have achieved, if he knew what he was he doing, and didn't alienate so many people so fast, which is, as a potential that wasn't met, a terrifying thought, but a fortuity it was not to be) puts him, in my opinion, below such Presidents as Andrew Jackson, James K. Polk, William McKinley, Richard Nixon, and George W. Bush, who pulled off and achieved high crimes and betrayals, that Trump is just too obviously obtuse and incompetent to pull off, frankly. Franklin Pierce was awful, too, frankly, but for very different reasons...

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23 hours ago, vcczar said:

Cleveland was as much Pro-Gold as McKinley. Cleveland was much more for limited government. He was for free trade while McKinley was a staunch protectionist. Cleveland was more about giving offices based on merit and washing out corruption. McKinley was more establishment and okay with corruption and awarding offices to loyalists. Cleveland wasn't an imperialist. McKinley was. Tilden would have been about the same as president as Cleveland. 

Cleveland is basically a 19th century Ron Paul in many ways. He's the closest post-Civil War president we've had to a libertarian probably. 

My favorite Cleveland story:  His campaign was based on him having exceptionally high self-integrity during a time when everybody was just insanely corrupt.

But then his opponents discover that Cleveland, who had never married up to that point, had fathered a child out of wedlock.  Ho ho!  Not so full of yourself NOW, are you, Grover Cleveland?

 

That would have been the end of anyone else’s career.  But not Grover Cleveland.

 

He just says “I have the integrity to admit that the allegations are true.  My bad, ya’ll”

And the Scandal just goes away.

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23 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

My favorite Cleveland story:  His campaign was based on him having exceptionally high self-integrity during a time when everybody was just insanely corrupt.

But then his opponents discover that Cleveland, who had never married up to that point, had fathered a child out of wedlock.  Ho ho!  Not so full of yourself NOW, are you, Grover Cleveland?

 

That would have been the end of anyone else’s career.  But not Grover Cleveland.

 

He just says “I have the integrity to admit that the allegations are true.  My bad, ya’ll”

And the Scandal just goes away.

There was also the huge endowment Cleveland gave his illegitmate child, pretty much setting them for life. It wasn't just a vocal admission in terms of the responsibility he took.

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On 10/30/2020 at 5:17 PM, vcczar said:

Hoover and Trump are basically a tie for me, but for totally different reasons. I think Trump will be overall more damaging than Hoover was, so I picked Trump as the worst. 

Same.

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