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Historic Vote #4: Declare War on Great Britain in 1812


vcczar
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Historic Vote #4: Declare War on Great Britain in 1812  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Would yo vote to Declare War on Great Britain?

  2. 2. Which kind of Senator would you be? Note: only including those that existed.

    • New England Federalist adamantly opposed to the War
    • Delaware Federalist, the last non-New England variety, standing with the party in opposition to the war.
    • A Northern Jeffersonian Republican, opposed to the war as it will impact the Northern industrial cities and their mercantile trade.
    • A Southern or Western Jeffersonian Republican supportive of the war against routine and unpunished British aggression and British insults.
  3. 3. Would you have been one of the War Hawks aggressively pushing for the war via rhetoric and influence?

    • Yes
    • No, even though I voted for the war.
    • No, I am against the war.
  4. 4. If you were against the war, would you have been a member of the Hartford Convention, which seriously considered having New England secede from the Union?

    • Yes, I selected that I was a New England Federalist, and I would be part of this Convention.
    • No, even while I selected that I was a New England Federalists, I would not consider secession.
    • No, I did not select that I was a New England Federalist.
  5. 5. Should the Declaration of War pass, would you approve of expansionist's plan to invade and capture British Canada as either a bargaining chip or as new US Territory?

    • I do not approve of an invasion of British Canada as we need to conserve our forces, and we don't need the territory.
    • Yes, but only as a bargaining chip to end the war quickly and get what we want in the peace treaty.
    • Yes, but only if we plan to add Canada to the United States as one or more territories or states.


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You are a US Senator and it is June 17, 1812. You are about to vote on a Declaration of War against Great Britain, arguably the greatest military force on the planet. 

Over five years of economic coercion, has failed to stop the impressment (forced recruitment) of sailors on US Ships by the British, has failed to stop the British from impeding our trade with France, and has failed to stop the British from arming and supporting of Native Americans in the Western areas where we wish to expand. Besides, Jefferson's embargo was an economic failure, and it was our strongest attempt at economic coercion. Therefore, we need to take strong action to compel an end of these grievances and to compel respect to the European Powers. 

Speaker Henry Clay (Jeffersonian Republican - KY) leads the War Hawks in favor of the war, while the dwindling Federalist Party and some moderate Jeffersonian Republicans oppose the war.

Those that support this, include a few that hope to grab Canada. They are confident that Britain's involvement in the Napoleonic Wars and wars in India will make any invasion force a 3rd rate force. 

Those that oppose this, argue that the economic repercussions would be severe, especially considering Great Britain is our top trading partner. Additionally, Great Britain has an unrivaled navy. Our military is neither professional nor large and neither is our navy. Lastly, an invasion of our own territory is virtually guaranteed should war occur.

How would you have voted?

 

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2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

vcczar @Reagan04 @Actinguy @Patine @Conservative Elector 2 @TheMiddlePolitical @WVProgressive @SilentLiberty @pilight @admin_270 @Hestia11 @Herbert Hoover @mlcorcoran @Leuser @upandaway @jvikings1 @Rodja @Edouard @jnewt @Nentomat @Kingthero @Sunnymentoaddict @RFK/JFKfan @Mr.Blood @Zenobiyl @Wiw @MBDemSoc @ThePotatoWalrus @Alxeu @Allyn @Cenzonico @CentristGuy @Ishan @billay @wolves @RI Democrat @lizarraba @lizphairphreak @TheLiberalKitten @MysteryKnight @avatarmushi @servo75 @Mark_W

You are a US Senator and it is June 17, 1812. You are about to vote on a Declaration of War against Great Britain, arguably the greatest military force on the planet. 

Over five years of economic coercion, has failed to stop the impressment (forced recruitment) of sailors on US Ships by the British, has failed to stop the British from impeding our trade with France, and has failed to stop the British from arming and supporting of Native Americans in the Western areas where we wish to expand. Besides, Jefferson's embargo was an economic failure, and it was our strongest attempt at economic coercion. Therefore, we need to take strong action to compel an end of these grievances and to compel respect to the European Powers. 

Speaker Henry Clay (Jeffersonian Republican - KY) leads the War Hawks in favor of the war, while the dwindling Federalist Party and some moderate Jeffersonian Republicans oppose the war.

Those that support this, include a few that hope to grab Canada. They are confident that Britain's involvement in the Napoleonic Wars and wars in India will make any invasion force a 3rd rate force. 

Those that oppose this, argue that the economic repercussions would be severe, especially considering Great Britain is our top trading partner. Additionally, Great Britain has an unrivaled navy. Our military is neither professional nor large and neither is our navy. Lastly, an invasion of our own territory is virtually guaranteed should war occur.

How would you have voted?

 

One of the stupidest wars (at least before the post-WW2 era, when wars starting becoming stupid in general) fought by either the United States or the United Kingdom - and neither got anything for it in the end. An utter embarrassment for any hawkish politician or military commander involved on either side.

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1 minute ago, Hestia11 said:

While I would likely be a Federalist, by this point I feel like the Feds were so dead that the only hope would be to be a D-R. Not sure though.

My convictions would not let me sell out to such a repugnant party, even with the overwhelming success they were commanding. But true political convictions are somewhat of a weak point in American politics - which is ironic for a political system that is also highly polarized and abhorring compromise.

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2 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

Particularly at this point in time, yes.

This is true. The early 1800's was, actually, a time period in the U.S. where citizens taking up arms and rebelling against the Federal Government more openly than raucus protests, cowardly mass shootings, and blowing up Federal buildings, but actually standard, orthodox REBELLIONS, were actually a very real danger of happening...

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27 minutes ago, Patine said:

One of the stupidest wars (at least before the post-WW2 era, when wars starting becoming stupid in general) fought by either the United States or the United Kingdom - and neither got anything for it in the end. An utter embarrassment for any hawkish politician or military commander involved on either side.

Yeah, one reason why I think Madison's presidency is wildly overrated. 

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I would not be a Jeffersonian as I’d be anti slavery, but I do favor the war.  There was no option for that, so I selected New England federalist against the war and also war hawk proponent of the war.  
 

I’d have favored Canadian invasion either as an expansion or a bargaining chip.

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18 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I would not be a Jeffersonian as I’d be anti slavery, but I do favor the war.  There was no option for that, so I selected New England federalist against the war and also war hawk proponent of the war.  
 

I’d have favored Canadian invasion either as an expansion or a bargaining chip.

You had Jeffersonian abolitionists or slavery critics, Aaron Burr was one. It's just that they only existed in the North. 

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To be honest, the americans tried to free francophone people from Quebec in 1776, but they remained mostly loyal and calm because the catholic clergy told them to do so but also because Great Britain had decided to be kind with Quebecers in order to not have them rioting.

While the other part of Canada (the anglo one) was composed of loyalists of the crown who fled the american revolution.

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1 minute ago, Edouard said:

To be honest, the americans tried to free people from Quebec in 1776, but they remained mostly loyal and calm because the catholic clergy told them to do so but also because Great Britain had decided to be kind with Quebecers in order to not have them rioting.

What does that have to do with 1812--almost 40 years later? The purpose is also different. The US isn't trying to liberate the people; they just want the land. 

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1 minute ago, vcczar said:

What does that have to do with 1812--almost 40 years later? The purpose is also different. The US isn't trying to liberate the people; they just want the land. 

Yep but it's harsher to get lands when the people is not supporting you (and that your own country remains poorly inhabited) 😛 

Actually if one time you go to Quebec you will be able to visit the citadelle de Quebec. After the american revolution, GB armored many places of Canada in order to be sure that any invasion from the US be stopped.

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