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French Man Beheaded in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine


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A French man was beheaded today in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, Ile-De-France. Witnesses claim the assailant shouted "allahu akbar" and the victim is allegedy a professor who showed muhammed cartoons in his class.

 

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12 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

A French man was beheaded today in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, Ile-De-France. Witnesses claim the assailant shouted "allahu akbar" and the victim is allegedy a professor who showed muhammed cartoons in his class.

 

This is very similar to how one of Vincent Van Gogh's descendants was beheaded for doing the same thing. This was when I was in undergrad, 16 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

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41 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

A French man was beheaded today in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, Ile-De-France. Witnesses claim the assailant shouted "allahu akbar" and the victim is allegedy a professor who showed muhammed cartoons in his class.

 

The violence against innocent civilians over these issues has to stop. The Islamist terrorism against Western civilians, AND the Western and Israeli bombing, drone attacks, and other actions against civilians in pre-dominantly Islamic countries. It ALL has to stop.

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10 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Religion of peace does what they do best again.

When will we stop calling them that and use it to refer to the Amish instead?? /s

Christianity is a religion of peace, love, forgiveness, and charity. Too bad so few Christians practice it.

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2 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Religion of peace does what they do best again.

When will we stop calling them that and use it to refer to the Amish instead?? /s

The only religions of peace are those whose doctrine are anti-war and anti-violence. Any religion that has ever launched a war, endorses violence, endorsed, disharmony on the bases of their religion or faith has failed to be a religion of peace. 

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32 minutes ago, vcczar said:

The only religions of peace are those whose doctrine are anti-war and anti-violence. Any religion that has ever launched a war, endorses violence, endorsed, disharmony on the bases of their religion or faith has failed to be a religion of peace. 

Agree, and I'd say the same thing regarding my branch of Christianity. However, unlike Christianity, I'd argue that a large percentage of Islam still remains militant, maybe not as much in the US, but definitely in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia.

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25 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Agree, and I'd say the same thing regarding my branch of Christianity. However, unlike Christianity, I'd argue that a large percentage of Islam still remains militant, maybe not as much in the US, but definitely in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia.

What is your data for this? What is a "large percentage"? One could say, that a larger part of Islam remains militant than Christianity based off world news reports. However, I think that has more to do with secularization than it has to do with Christianity or Islam being peaceful or not peaceful. One might be able to argue that the areas of the world that are less faithful, less practicing, and less strict or dogmatic about their religion are generally more peaceful. The caveat might also be to add, when they are also free of an authoritarian governments, since technically non-religious states can be non-peaceful when the violence is state-sanctioned (China and USSR). However, that's more on the basis of government than on religion or non-religion.

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

The only religions of peace are those whose doctrine are anti-war and anti-violence. Any religion that has ever launched a war, endorses violence, endorsed, disharmony on the bases of their religion or faith has failed to be a religion of peace. 

Not quite true. Both Christianity and Buddhism have peace and non-violence at their doctrinal core, but a LOT of Christian and Buddhist rulers and other leaders have engaged in many wars - quite a few attempted to be justified by religion - and in complete violation of the core tenets of their faith. But not all Christians and Buddhists engage in this violence, or support it, or believe it's right, or in the spirit of their religion. Your viewpoint has a bit of a disconnect because it's judged by an absolutist criteria, I'm afraid.

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21 minutes ago, Patine said:

Not quite true. Both Christianity and Buddhism have peace and non-violence at their doctrinal core, but a LOT of Christian and Buddhist rulers and other leaders have engaged in many wars - quite a few attempted to be justified by religion - and in complete violation of the core tenets of their faith. But not all Christians and Buddhists engage in this violence, or support it, or believe it's right, or in the spirit of their religion. Your viewpoint has a bit of a disconnect because it's judged by an absolutist criteria, I'm afraid.

I'm talking about the religions as a whole and not individual sects that might might deviate from the establishment. 

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On 10/16/2020 at 5:22 PM, Patine said:

Not quite true. Both Christianity and Buddhism have peace and non-violence at their doctrinal core, but a LOT of Christian and Buddhist rulers and other leaders have engaged in many wars - quite a few attempted to be justified by religion - and in complete violation of the core tenets of their faith. But not all Christians and Buddhists engage in this violence, or support it, or believe it's right, or in the spirit of their religion. Your viewpoint has a bit of a disconnect because it's judged by an absolutist criteria, I'm afraid.

Very true. Certain leaders decide to use religion as a tool for power, riches, influence, etc. It's easy to say you can do something because God told you to do it. Difficult to argue against that one.

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The professor was showing press drawings of mahomet since 3 years in class to talk about freedom of expression which is a constitutionnal right in France.

-It was in the high school program

-He asked to muslims in his class to leave it if they would feel hurted by it so he was respectfull of their religious beliefs.

But many of their parents had started to spread fake news about what he was doing in class, and promoted hate and hatred to the point that one of their children beheaded the professor.

The killer was a refugee from the Russo-Tchetchen war of the 2000's.

In France every political organizations agree that it's unacceptable.

Personnaly I tend to believe - as a french - that this kind of act may pave the way for Marine le Pen.

Emmanuel Macron had recently shifted toward a more right-wing stance on secularism, I think that there will be even more pression on reforms now

Here is what the french press had to say about it

122017437_3471256019628202_8336525172249709895_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vYbH8mdm07cAX-7WZT7&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=0c8b0eb18c31936658b0ae1bbddc78f0&oe=5FB06F36

 

And if you want to consult a left-wing caricaturist : https://www.facebook.com/NawakIllustrations 

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Hard Islamists (or theocrats or theonymists or other hard fundamentalist or doctrinaire advocates of any other religion, for that matter) tend not to honour or agree with the Enlightenment thinkers' views on the inalienable rights of freedom of speech, expression, conscience, religion, association, assembly, or the press, for some reason... :S

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That's the outcome of a liberal immigration policy we saw in Europe for years. The lasting impact of 2015 is still not overcome.

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19 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

That's the outcome of a liberal immigration policy we saw in Europe for years. The lasting impact of 2015 is still not overcome.

I think there's other factors to blame, as well. Such as Western, Soviet, and Israeli military impunity and political meddling in predominantly Islamic nations during the Cold War actually CREATING the very institution of Islamist Terrorism second-hand as a reaction where it otherwise wouldn't have existed, as well rulers in pre-dominantly Islamic nations being so corrupt and despotic some of their people turn to such vile acts externally as a form of sick, nihilistic release - and the greed of big oil companies enabling and furthering both of the above two issues. Immigration is not all there is to it.

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I have to recall that the tchetchen in question lives in France since 2008 (and his 6 years old) as he's a child of a refugee family from the wars between Russia and Tchetchenya when they wanted to be a republic.

I personnaly went to Highschool with another refugee from Tchetchenya some years ago, so I know that they are not all like that, even if there is a societal gap.

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1 hour ago, Wiw said:

This is probably going to be a precursor to a repeat of 11/13, isn't it?

It could be yes cause the fact that a teacher was beheaded for teaching a constitutionnal right created a big shock

Many among the political class want radical actions such as forcing religious offices to clearly condemn this act or to be closed 

Just a week ago Emmanuel Macron had already decided that the "school at home" would be banned because of some radicalizations suspicions and also that private schools would be more controled, and with this terrorist act the actions could go even further.

Many of the parents who spread the fake news are currently under inquiry by the police

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19 minutes ago, Edouard said:

It could be yes cause the fact that a teacher was beheaded for teaching a constitutionnal right created a big shock

Many among the political class want radical actions such as forcing religious offices to clearly condemn this act or to be closed 

Just a week ago Emmanuel Macron had already decided that the "school at home" would be banned because of some radicalizations suspicions and also that private schools would be more controled, and with this terrorist act the actions could go even further.

Many of the parents who spread the fake news are currently under inquiry by the police

Wow! Is Macron going to turn into a full-out Petain (even without an all-out military capitulation, like the latter started with) over these more and more intrusive, paternalistic, Orwellian, and knee-jerk reactionary laws?

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                                                    122111282_3332159173486679_3328064298972826562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=b3h6qYhOpjUAX_fMMRl&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=1a638b6307b66f1b70c6f5ecca4a6007&oe=5FB2D55F

Place de la République - currently

As to reply to Patine, I am opposed to the ban of school at home but I believe that if Macron does not concede it would be even worse.

 

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The minister of the Interior Gerald Darmanin asked to extrade 231 persons who are not citizens of France and who are signaled as potential threat to the national security.

The exact same day Jean Luc Mélenchon while he is left-wing / hard-left, told that "the tchentchen who have politically islamist activities on social networks should be found back and extraded" aswell.

Seems that this terrorist attack has produced an even bigger shift on the political class than the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack.

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9 hours ago, Edouard said:

                                                    122111282_3332159173486679_3328064298972826562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=b3h6qYhOpjUAX_fMMRl&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=1a638b6307b66f1b70c6f5ecca4a6007&oe=5FB2D55F

Place de la République - currently

As to reply to Patine, I am opposed to the ban of school at home but I believe that if Macron does not concede it would be even worse.

 

Just like the utter violations of Constitutional law (especially guaranteed rights) and outright acts of treason against the people and nation, and setting up tools of a future tyranny just waiting to be used that were the (un)Patriot Act in the United States and Bill C-51 in Canada were so necessary and needed as written, right? It's hard to win against the evils of terrorism in the long run by becoming just as bad as them, and throwing away all that such a fight should be defending. Forgive me if disagree if such measures and their justifications.

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Last news from today

-One of the parent who started fake news about the teacher had a private mobile communication with the terrorist who beheaded the teacher but we do not know the context of the messages yet

-The terrorist had given 300 euros to 5 teenagers in order to get details and infos about the teacher to be sure to kill the real one, the teenagers say they weren't aware that the guy who payed them was going to behead the teacher

-51 associations including a big organization which have unclear links with radical islamism are going to be closed or risk to be soon

-The mosque which shared fake news on the professor prior to his kill has been closed by the government for 6 months at least

-The 2nd of November the ministry of national education in collaboration with regions will display a free book about caricature and freedom of expression, also there will be a harsher control to make sure that everyone respect the minute of silence (there were disrespects of this minute in 2001 for 9/11 and 2015 for Charlie hebdo).

-Tomorrow Emmanuel Macron will make a speech at the Sorbonne University about the teacher and grant him the legion d'honneur and the palmes académiques.

-Some imams went publicly to support the measures like the imam of Drancy who's also president of a conference of imams.

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16 minutes ago, Edouard said:

Last news from today

-One of the parent who started fake news about the teacher had a private mobile communication with the terrorist who beheaded the teacher but we do not know the context of the messages yet

-The terrorist had given 300 euros to 5 teenagers in order to get details and infos about the teacher to be sure to kill the real one, the teenagers say they weren't aware that the guy who payed them was going to behead the teacher

-51 associations including a big organization which have unclear links with radical islamism are going to be closed or risk to be soon

-The mosque which shared fake news on the professor prior to his kill has been closed by the government for 6 months at least

-The 2nd of November the ministry of national education in collaboration with regions will display a free book about caricature and freedom of expression, also there will be a harsher control to make sure that everyone respect the minute of silence (there were disrespects of this minute in 2001 for 9/11 and 2015 for Charlie hebdo).

-Tomorrow Emmanuel Macron will make a speech at the Sorbonne University about the teacher and grant him the legion d'honneur and the palmes académiques.

-Some imams went publicly to support the measures like the imam of Drancy who's also president of a conference of imams.

These reactions sound remarkably similar to the early 18th Century Confucian Vietnamese Emperors using a few specific incidents tied to the French Roman Catholic missions to shut-down piecemeal, and eventually outlaw, Catholicism in Vietnam.

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