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Vice Presidential Debate Thread


Reagan04
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4 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

hey have more reason to be truly independent (a news agency vs a political consultant for GOP causes) than Luntz

No, they don't. CNN is committed to defeating Trump. They are not truly independent in any sense.

I think it's fair to call in to question Luntz's political and financial motivations as well. But for contrast, last week Luntz' focus group said Biden won the debate.

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15 hours ago, Patine said:

I really don't get the point of people who find all of my arguments funny. I can only conclude they must be disturbed, psychotic, nihilistic, warped, or just empty shells. Now, since I'm done dealing with a vile individual such as you, I'm putting you on ignore, and publicly advising everyone else on this forum to do so as well. You are a sick individual, and you're on the wrong forum for that.

Ah Patine, Good ol Patine! Don't mind me just gonna cry a river that some dude who wants to live in a fairytale perfect world and cries on a forum about "Right bad! Right bad!" put me on ignore 😭

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2 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

@Conservative Elector 2You really gonna make me refute you again aren't you

You are free to do this of course, but I don't think it will change my opinion anyway.

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8 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Here's my take. I'd say Pence did a superb job in the debate and reassured the American people why it's important to support the Republican ticket. He spoke in a calm and friendly way and demonstrated tremendous integrity in his responses. The world needs more leaders like him instead of the hysterical, ''get-out-of-my-way''-people. Harris came off as largely unlikeable and bossy. Harris' performance itself wasn't particular bad, she didn't made a gaffe I noticed, but Pence was simply winning in nearly every argument. He amazingly called out the hypocrisy of Biden and Harris on a large variety of issues. 

She couldn't even answer whether they'll support a new lockdown of the economy or a federal mask mandate if elected... Harris said one out of five businesses had closed permanently, so why she's not ruling out a new lockdown if she's that concerned about the economy?

What if Dr. Fauci AND Trump recommend the same vaccine? Would Harris still not take it out of her blind hatred for the President? She's clearly not interested in the betterment of the situation, because she's also encouraging her supporters to not take the vaccine by acting that way.

Pence nailed it on the swine flu, which was happening under Biden's watch. Thanks God it wasn't as lethal as the current pandemic. If it had been, the Obama-Biden administration would have had a big problem.

With regards to taxes, the bottom line was taxes will be raise under a Biden-Harris administration in order to entitle people to things for free. Pence called the Democratic ticket out for their planed repealing of the GOP tax cuts.

The Biden-Harris ticket also fell over their policies regarding a fracking ban and the Green New Deal, both policies which will hurt America to the utmost. First of all, Harris collaborated with AOC on that. Really? Secondly, what do you think will happen if Greta Thunberg demands a visit with a President Biden and also ''demands'' the US ending fracking immediately? The first people who'll gave in to her will be Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That's for sure. Ask them what they think about Thunberg. I bet you'll get answers like ''courageous, admirable or a wonderful young female leader''. So, I think it's rather naïve to believe Biden and Harris will defend fracking, fossil fuels, American energy independence etc. in the wake of a radical movement getting their ways in one legislation after the other and making more and more bold assertions... The real thing I'd be worried about in the Democratic camp is, whether the radical left will approve of Harris' cocky announcement to NOT ban fracking or NOT supporting the Green New Deal. Maybe they know it's just a lie and doesn't matter anyway. On a sidenote it's funny Harris mentioned you can visit iwillvote. com and joebiden. com. You can also visit antifa. com it doesn't make difference at all nowadays (the site still redirects to Biden's campaign page and the media doesn't even mention it). 

Another great line which Vice President Pence placed in regards to hypocrisy was about Biden's close ties to China. First of all Biden's criticism of a China travel ban when the US had about five known cases was simply wrong. It's not xenophobic or hysterical, it was simply the only right thing to do. Under a Biden-Harris administration, which would surely be lenient at the border, the virus could have come in large capacities into the US. What did Democrats do in January or February? Nothing for the American people, but focusing on the impeachement. Harris saying the travel ban didn't work out, was wrong. As Vice President Pence said, it bought the US time. I am wondering, didn't she hear Pence's response or is she just negligent about the facts? The People's Republic of China and the WHO were largely unreliable sources in this fight. The first taking every action to cover their own mess up, the later doing virtually nothing on questioning the Chinese regime or pressing them on critical information about the virus. As the Vice President said, Biden never took on China and certainly will never do so. The reason for it is well known. His own son took advantage from the country. Pence delivered strongly on this issue and it should also be well known why Beijing is waiting for a Biden win in come November. 

Biden's foreign policy stances are a disaster on the whole and Pence called that out as well. The Iran Nuclear Deal was ridiculous. What's in for the US if the other side doesn't comply with the rules anyway? Don't make a fool out of yourself, get out and remain out! Under the Obama-Biden administration ISIS claimed a caliphate of the size of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Obama and Biden let that happen and did also nothing to prevent the killing of Kayla Mueller. A ''sorry'' from Senator Harris and Biden doesn't pay off for the failures of Biden and Obama on this issue. You had your chance and you showed you didn't learn the lesson! Why did Biden oppose taking out General Soleimani? An enemy to America should always be taken out when it's possible. But there's clearly a pattern noticeable in Biden here. Osama bin Laden's killing wasn't also supported by him, so yeah ''let the terrorists do their job, we are the good people'' might be his motto. How sad it is we even have to debate whether the missions against these people have been good or not...

Concerning the Supreme Court Pence did an awesome job. Of course Indiana should immediately ban all abortions except when the mother's life is in danger, if Roe v. Wade is about to be finally overturned. I know that, Pence knows that and many other people concerned about the sanctity of life from conception know that (Ralph Northam doesn't by the way). Pence is clearly a man of honor and stands up for what he believes in. His line regarding being unapologetic pro-life was amazing. In normal times the audience should have stood up and salute this brave statement and reminder in which kind of society we live, where half of the population is probably okay with killing unborn or even born children. I don't even discuss Harris' and frankly Biden's position here.

Pence was right when demanding a fair hearing for Judge Amy Coney Barrett and called out the hypocrisy and anti-Catholic rhetoric which lives loudly within some Democrats like Senators Dianne Feinstein or Dick Durbin. Harris, like Biden, dodged the question whether they'll attempt to pack the Supreme Court, the most important institution within the United States. We know why, because that's in the playbook when you can't win by the rules set. Her answer on Lincoln was just lousy. As if General McClellan had ever a real chance to win. Lincoln could have done nothing and would still have won re-election. He didn't give up anything when not filling Chief Justice Taney's seat immediately.

As Pence said calling the United States systemically racist or the largely great law enforcement racist biased is a great insult to what has been built in less than 300 years. No wonder why law enforcement organizations don't support the Biden-Harris campaign... Harris' hypocrisy was mentioned again when Pence referred to her filibustering Tim Scott's criminal justice reform bill.

Harris lied openly on at least three differently occasions. Bold when claiming the other side lies sooo so much. As said by Pence and by me last week it is not true that Trump didn't condemn White Nationalism on the debate stage. She also said Trump called the virus a hoax. Even Jake Tapper said on weekend that Trump didn't call the virus itself a hoax, when Governor Whitmer repeated that lie on his program. Harris also repeated the ''very fine people on both sides''-lie again.

It was quite funny of Harris to mention the so-called broad coalition of people supporting Biden. 8% in the New Hampshire Democratic primary, no law enforcement groups, Colin Powell (what a surprise, he didn't vote for the GOP nominee since 2008) and some members of Bush's cabinet - she doesn't even help Biden here. Bush's sadly largely disliked by Democrats and Republicans alike. No one will say, ''I am going to support Biden, because some Bush cabinet members told me to do so''. That statement the other way round would perhaps be more plausible. 

Pence also got a clear win regarding ''Trump not accepting an election  loss''. First of all the election should be closely watched for electoral fraud (amid a pandemic and massive mail-in voting this a very likely scenario) and furthermore most Democrats have not even accepted Hillary Clinton's defeat yet. Otherwise they hadn't mobilized an impreachment proceeding, which was doomed to fail but cost tremendous ressources and time which could have been used to work against the pandemic.

Regarding the military and Trump ''not liking the troops'', I'll let this video speak and show why Harris is simply misleading again.

 

Your response sounds like it was scripted and pre-written for you to cut-and-paste to shill undissentingly and without independent thought or view on the issue by the RNC...

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7 hours ago, anti-trump said:

There's been a lot of lying and dishonestly about Abe Lincoln all around. Like any Republican (or non-Republican, but sympathetic to them, like some non-Americans, or certain American Independents), saying the Republican Party of the United States is STILL the Party of Lincoln, despite completely abdicating the legacy as early as the Corrupt Bargain of 1877. There's a big one!

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11 hours ago, Patine said:

Your response sounds like it was scripted and pre-written for you to cut-and-paste to shill undissentingly and without independent thought or view on the issue by the RNC...

I am fine with that. I took four pages in notes and explained why Pence's pragmatism won easily against Harris.

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1 hour ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I am fine with that. I took four pages in notes and explained why Pence's pragmatism won easily against Harris.

Your socio-political bias has, since you first logged in here, been almost undissentingly absolute. You can rarely seriously or sincerely criticize a Republican politician and never have or concede a single positive point about a Democratic politician. This form of rhetoric in U.S. politics, from supporters of both major parties, is a clear and blatant symptom of a real problem that's going to be utterly ruinous and destructive in the not so long term - the breaking down and degeneration of independent thought and any constructive discourse. Rhetoric such as this - yours and any one else's of this sort, from supporters' of both major U.S. parties - is of course utterly and completely worthless and without merit or value - to be ignored as the background humming of hive bees by those seeking actual insight in such discussions. The real valuable parts are those that offer viewpoints, criticisms, insights, ideas, and proposals outside of the staid and failed Duopoly policy lines, and call members and proposals of both parties to rightful accolades or approbrium where truly deserved, on individual an basis. It's time to think outside the partisan box, and break the ideological chains of unquestioning obedience, lest they drag you to the bottom of the metaphorical sea.

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Your socio-political bias has, since you first logged in here, been almost undissentingly absolute. You can rarely seriously or sincerely criticize a Republican politician and never have or concede a single positive point about a Democratic politician.

I'd disagree here a bit. I am not a fan of Trump, Kris Kobach and a few others. I voiced that in the past I guess. I also don't criticize Mitt Romney for example in the amount you would probably expect me to criticize him.

I'd also say I made a lot of relatively nice comments about Andrew Yang, Cory Booker or even Elizabeth Warren (way more likeable than Harris for example).

But hey that's the same with most Democratic voters. I rarely read any criticism of their party members here and I understand that. Why should we criticize the people who stand for what we believe in? That doesn't make much sense, does it?

You are quite a special case, because you simply criticize all sides of the aisle. We're certainly different.

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1 minute ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Why should we criticize the people who stand for what we believe in? That doesn't make much sense, does it?

It makes perfect sense, actually, though a lot of people today have lost touch with why. It's part and parcel with the reason Enlightenment thinkers view Freedom of Speech, Conscience, and the Press as in the Natural Rights of Citizens and essential to good governance - not to use these rights to inflame, insult, and offend people, and pepper a cesspool media with lies, obscenity, propaganda, and staged, but toxic, violence - and then hide behind such rights alone when called out - which seems to be the predominant uses of these rights today. The fact is, political criticism, in it's proper context, is meant to be CONSTRUCTIVE and to hash out bad ideas, failures, blunders, oversteps of authority and bounds, breaking of policy, stumbling toward corruption or behaviour unbecoming of good leaders, etc., that political leadership often does not (or will not) see and fix themselves on their own, and that supporter of said politicians should, in all good conscience, make such criticisms and are remiss not - and are ESPECIALLY remiss to continue support or encourage for politicians carrying on such ideas without saying a word out of partisan loyalty. But, for some reason, it seems a lot of people today don't see things that way - and hence political integrity is going right down the toilet, and the supporters of said politicians have developed a definite toxic edge and tenor - and this is NOT at all good.

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