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1st Pres Debate Thread (9/29/2020)


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Wallace also asked a false question about Harris' position on vaccines. The question asked by CNN was not whether you trusted scientists with the vaccine, but if scientists would get the last word, which is an important difference.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html

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Looks to me like someone didn't bother spending any CP on increasing Issue Familiarity or Debating Skills

Voting third party is better than not voting, which I'd rather do than vote for Biden at this point. 

Shitshow. I said this debate would decide if I vote for Biden or Jorgensen and I'm definitely leaning Jorgensen. It's funny because at first I thought Trump was winning but he completely blew it after

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54 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

And replaced by those who will launch the missiles.  And yet, nearly four years in...no missile launches.

There's a million terrible things about Donald Trump.  We don't have to invent things that aren't true.

Oh, give it time - he'll run out of options VERY quickly, and when he does, he'll take us all down with him.

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12 hours ago, Actinguy said:

I will not allow my faith in either Joe Biden or our elections to be shaken by tonight’s debate.

That is what Donald Trump wants to achieve with his grotesque behavior.

And I will not give it to him.

I will not let Donald Trump win.

Right - Trump "wins" by making enough would-be Biden voters so disgusted with the whole thing that they don't bother voting or vote 3rd party. 

Biden wasn't perfect in this debate, and he's not the most articulate Democrat around in general, but Trump's constant taunts and interruptions are what dragged the debate into the gutter. Biden shouldn't be punished for the fact that the sitting President of the Untied States decided to behave like a petulant child.

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43 minutes ago, Wiw said:

Oh, give it time - he'll run out of options VERY quickly, and when he does, he'll take us all down with him.

Trying to start a nuclear war would probably be the thing most likely to get the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment against him. Besides, I doubt he wants to live in a NORAD bunker for the rest of his life. 

I'm concerned about how he'll behave in the transitional period if Biden appears to have won, but I don't really think he's going to try to start a nuclear war. He'll complain on Twitter to be sure, he'll file lawsuits, he might even stoke some sort of street violence - and that will be bad enough. 

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7 hours ago, Actinguy said:

If you are a victim of a fascist leader, does it really matter to you whether he carries a card in his wallet identifying him as a dues-paying member?

No.

 

6 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Yeah, but which world leader would you label fascist? I know some people might come up with Bolsonaro, Duterte or even Trump. In fact I remember @Patine speaking about this issue and I agreed with him regarding the overusing of the term ''fascist'' when you don't agree with a country's leader.

 

6 hours ago, Mark_W said:

Whether there is a current fascist leader or not is irrelevant though. Antifa is not just there to oppose active fascist regimes.

 

6 hours ago, Wiw said:

Yes!

Fascists, by definition, are a tiny minority of the U.S. - and the world's - population today. In the U.S., they tend to live either in tiny, isolated, rural communities - even paranoid "apocalypse bunkers," - in the middle of nowhere, with a few aging, burnt-out, misanthropic, and griping ex-skinheads in some suburban areas. The most notable American Fascist in the post-Cold War era who went out and did something RELLY precipitous was Timothy McVeigh. The "good people," at the Charllotesburg Rally was almost certainly a call-to-arms made up to a week in advance from across the nation, not just that many Fascists, by proper definition, happening to live locally.

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I rate this comedic laughing stock we call a presidential debate a 10/10, would recommend. In fact this comedic masterpiece could only be compared to such films as The Room. They aren't trying to be funny, they just are funny for the wrong reasons.

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6 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

.

I appreciate your long response, although I disagree mostly with it.

7 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

Biden laughed because the things Trump was saying was laughable. I agree he could have attacked more and I would have liked to have seen it.

I doubt that you'll see that, but Pelosi insinuates already backing out of the next debates... most things Trump said hit the core actually.

7 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

Only one of those candidates fell over themself to praise the Chinese response initially. Either way, Biden's job was to let Trump self-destruct and aid in any way possible. He definetly accomplished the first part.

But he didn't have a plan? For Covid.

Biden delivered on Covid, that's his bread and butter, empathizing and speaking directly to the people. Biden has every right to criticize because Trump threw out the pandemic playbook that was left for him. Second of all, Biden never called the travel ban racist, he simply said that it wasn't a panacea because the time that Trump did it, it was already here. 

Yeah, praising Xi was stupid that's clear. China lied and the world faced consequences. Now China has to face consequences. Biden won't step up to China, he didn't also step up to Putin (like he claimed). Russia's influence got much stronger while Obama and Biden let that happen in Syria, where ISIS and Russia took a foothold. The GOP administration wiped ISIS out. I wouldn't doubt ISIS could reemerge under a weak Biden presidency.

I wouldn't say Trump destructed himself. Trump's debate performance was much stronger than Biden's. None of Biden's soft attacks hit and he had opportunities to do that.

I'd call Operation Warpspeed a plan.

Speaking directly to the people didn't make me fall in his trap. That seems more like a lousy attempt to seem empathetic. It wasn't even authentic, at least for me. As I said people don't want empathy they want their jobs back, their taxes remaining low etc.

Criticizing his handling or a potential vaccine for political reasons is totally different, because the second one can have dangerous consequences for all people.

If Trump had banned travelling earlier, do you think Biden or Democrats would have agreed to that? 

7 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

Biden didn't shrug it off, he presented a very clear contrast between 14,000 dead and 200,000 dead with a very possible doubling by the end of the year. And they are airing legitimate concerns about how this administration has muzzled scientists in the name of scoring political points. How can you rag on Biden for 14,000 dead as a tool to defend Trump and his possible 400,000?

I am not defending anyone about any not neccessary death, but Biden, who claims to be so empathetic, showed his real face by washing 14,000 people off the table as if that doesn't matter anymore, just because more people died under his opponent. This shows he doesn't care more than Trump, despite claiming to do so. Anyway, Trump and Biden can't go to irresponsible pool or beach parties in Missouri or Florida. It's not entirely rump's fault and wouldn't be Biden's fault; the whole chaos is mostly caused by irresponsible people. 

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He didn't even attack them lol. He just said that they should pay more in taxes and that they've gotten richer during the pandemic. What's wrong with this statement?

I am not in favor of raising taxes. I'd still call that an attack. He clearly singled out a group and portrayed them badly.

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Biden will get support by saying he wants to raise taxes on the rich, that's a broadly popular position.

Isn't that right out of Warren's and Sanders' playbook?

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Obama handed Trump a booming economy and Trump's Covid response destroyed it.

From what I heard, America's economy was in shambles. Anyway, it's just Trump's fault. Many governor's of both parties did a bad job as well. 

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This is perhaps the most perplexing claim you make. In what way is Biden's denial on Hunter's business deals IN ANY WAY WORSE than what Trump said about a literal neo-nazi organization that they should "stand watch and stand by"?  And please, spare me. Go watch the entire speech and tell me that a man who sent his son to war doesn't have the most utmost respect for Armed Forces as opposed to a man that has shown open and private contempt for them.

Yes, as I said in another thread he condemned them (badly, but at least he did). Biden just said it's not true, but didn't give any details on the business dealingd of his son. Many reports are saying Biden's son did in fact have positions in these dubious firms. So what is there to hide?

I don't think saying such words is anywhere near to funny. I am sorry. 

I don't know where Trump has shown his contempt for the armed services? The VA is doing very well, much better than under Obama, if we believe the reports. 

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Biden never called anyone superpredators.

Maybe, I don't know. Hillary Clinton seems to have said that. Great... But was Biden's 1993 speech on the crime bill so nicely towards African Americans? I don't think so.

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And yet it wasn't Biden, who praised (!!) Barrett, so move on.

Yeah, wow! Did he urge Democratic Senators to support her? When he does that, I'll pay him respect on this.

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Trump refused to condemn and even praised like Proud Boys, his own DHS calls them the most present domestic terrorist threat in the country.

Again not true, but who are even the Proud Boys? I've never heard of them until today, so I don't think they are the big deal they are now made. If they are such a tremendous threat, why have they never been mentioned until now? And no I don't support them... I just think this whole story about them is massively overblown. 

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7 hours ago, RI Democrat said:

Trying to start a nuclear war would probably be the thing most likely to get the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment against him. Besides, I doubt he wants to live in a NORAD bunker for the rest of his life. 

I'm concerned about how he'll behave in the transitional period if Biden appears to have won, but I don't really think he's going to try to start a nuclear war. He'll complain on Twitter to be sure, he'll file lawsuits, he might even stoke some sort of street violence - and that will be bad enough. 

Considering the world health crisis, he'd probably say he's doing us a favour by sterilizing us all.

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24 minutes ago, Wiw said:

Considering the world health crisis, he'd probably say he's doing us a favour by sterilizing us all.

Starting another chain of fear-mongering false prophecies? Just quit right now, please.

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10 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

And this is coming from @Patine

I've made a few grim prognoses. But I've never made the claim of actual, absolute knowledge of the future (prophecy), and I usually make my statements for cautionary purposes, not to stir up fear needlessly. Now, please apologize for your inappropriate conflation meant solely to insult me needlessly and baselessly.

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2 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Yeah, wow! Did he urge Democratic Senators to support her? When he does that, I'll pay him respect on this.

Dont act like you dont know why. Its about the process not the nominee. McConnell made sure of that.

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2 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Again not true, but who are even the Proud Boys? I've never heard of them until today, so I don't think they are the big deal they are now made. If they are such a tremendous threat, why have they never been mentioned until now? And no I don't support them... I just think this whole story about them is massively overblown.

The organization glorifies political violence against leftists, re-enacting political assassinations, wearing shirts that praise Augusto Pinochet's murders of leftists and participating directly in political violence.[26

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16 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

The organization glorifies political violence against leftists, re-enacting political assassinations, wearing shirts that praise Augusto Pinochet's murders of leftists and participating directly in political violence.[26

We have a branch of them in Canada (seemingly centred in Halifax, Nova Scotia, but almost certainly not limited to that city). They've been using the colonial Red Ensign (Canada's official flag before Lester B. Pearson adopted the current "Maple Leaf," flag in 1965) as a de facto symbol and rallying point, almost in emulation of far-right wing German Parties using flags from old German Empire of the Kaisers founded by Bismarck (though, in their case, it being illegal to publicly display Nazi symbolry in modern Germany guides their choice, as well).

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Just now, Patine said:

We have a branch of them in Canada (seemingly centred in Halifax, Nova Scotia, but almost certainly not limited to that city). They've been using the colonial Red Ensign (Canada's official flag before Lester B. Pearson enacted the current "Maple Leaf," flag in 1965) as a de facto symbol and rallying point, almost in emulation of far-right wing German Parties using flags from old German Empire of the Kaisers founded by Bismarck (though, in their case, it being illegal to publicly display Nazi symbolry in modern Germany guides their choice, as well).

I did read that! I didn't know a lot of the background behind it, but now I do :)

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a reminder that pundits etc said trump lost every single republican debate and every Clinton debate

 

 

I also find that most people upset about the proud boys comments... are white. the African Americans from the undecided groups on cnn were still undecided after the debate.

 

gonna be a longgg election. 

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1 hour ago, PoliticalPundit said:

a reminder that pundits etc said trump lost every single republican debate and every Clinton debate

Ya - reactions of pundits are not always reactions of most people. For example, there is a stark divide in Trump support between people with a university degree and not. Almost all the pundits have university degrees.

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5 hours ago, Hestia11 said:

The organization glorifies political violence against leftists, re-enacting political assassinations, wearing shirts that praise Augusto Pinochet's murders of leftists and participating directly in political violence.[26

Yeah, definitely not the group with whom one should associate. 

5 hours ago, Patine said:

We have a branch of them in Canada (seemingly centred in Halifax, Nova Scotia, but almost certainly not limited to that city). They've been using the colonial Red Ensign (Canada's official flag before Lester B. Pearson adopted the current "Maple Leaf," flag in 1965) as a de facto symbol and rallying point, almost in emulation of far-right wing German Parties using flags from old German Empire of the Kaisers founded by Bismarck (though, in their case, it being illegal to publicly display Nazi symbolry in modern Germany guides their choice, as well).

Yeah, too bad these flags are hijacked by such groups. 

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11 hours ago, Patine said:

Starting another chain of fear-mongering false prophecies? Just quit right now, please.

Who's making prophecies? This is what I'm genuinely afraid will happen! And if he doesn't do it, he'll provoke someone else to do it for him. He tried to provoke a first strike from Iran, did you forget?!

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