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Kosovo and Israel normalize relations


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Although I disagree with the harmonizing process, this will help Trump I guess. His pro-Israel record is something which makes him still electable and definitely standing out compared to Biden. Obama and Biden didn't even try to improve the situation in the middle east. Israel was threatened for years, so I wouldn't make peace as the obvious stronger force but I can see the argument for doing so.

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13 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Although I disagree with the harmonizing process, this will help Trump I guess. His pro-Israel record is something which makes him still electable and definitely standing out compared to Biden. Obama and Biden didn't even try to improve the situation in the middle east. Israel was threatened for years, so I wouldn't make peace as the obvious stronger force but I can see the argument for doing so.

I doubt US-Israeli policy will have any impact on this election, especially since Covid, Recession, Race protests, Presidential character are hogging the headlines. 

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18 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I doubt US-Israeli policy will have any impact on this election, especially since Covid, Recession, Race protests, Presidential character are hogging the headlines. 

I wouldn't view it as US-Israel relations alone. It's clearly a foreign policy ''success''. 

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8 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I wouldn't view it as US-Israel relations alone. It's clearly a foreign policy ''success''. 

How involved was the US in this deal? Was it on par with the Carter Israeli-Egypt agreement, which was definitely a US led initiative with Carter leading the way? From what I’m reading, it seems mostly like this initiative has the US more of a side player, with Trump signing an approval of the initiative. This make it sound like something that would have happened with or without US involvement. 

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1 hour ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Obama and Biden didn't even try to improve the situation in the middle east.

I mean this is just blatantly false. Disagree as you may with how they did it. They clearly tried and were active players in the region.

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14 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

I mean this is just blatantly false. Disagree as you may with how they did it. They clearly tried and were active players in the region.

That doesn't make it better unfortunately. If we say, that's true - and I think you are probably better informed on this so I won't object - we also have to acknowledge they failed miserably by doing so which is by no means a very good credential. ISIS grew under their watch and Russia got to play a key part in the region.

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1 hour ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Although I disagree with the harmonizing process, this will help Trump I guess. His pro-Israel record is something which makes him still electable and definitely standing out compared to Biden. Obama and Biden didn't even try to improve the situation in the middle east. Israel was threatened for years, so I wouldn't make peace as the obvious stronger force but I can see the argument for doing so.

Israel, as well as those wretched Persian Gulf Monarchies, are sinkhole, "tails-wagging-the-dog," toxic allies who do next to nothing for the U.S. and certain other Western Powers (like the UK and Canada), but demand constant money, arms, political wrangling to protect them from all consequences their outright endeavours, and constrantly drag (along with big resource, contracting, and armaments corporations) these Western Powers into constant, pointless, and criminal wars in the Middle East. It's the West cut off these false friends and left the bloody quagmire that is the Middle East entirely, Not another bullet, another penny, or another drop of blood for the Middle East! And any Western political leaders who insists these alliances keep on being honoured despite the highly lopsided nature of them, and how little they serve the West (except for a few corrupt, soulless, sociopathic corporates) is guilty of TREASON and SEDITION to their nations and not fit to hold office, because they do not truly have their own nation and people's interests at heart, but are, instead, sniveling, kowtowing, ass-kissing, sell-out, and traitorious vassals to Middle-Eastern warlords and hollow, inhuman plutocrats with empires forged on both oil and blood.

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47 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

That doesn't make it better unfortunately. If we say, that's true - and I think you are probably better informed on this so I won't object - we also have to acknowledge they failed miserably by doing so which is by no means a very good credential. ISIS grew under their watch and Russia got to play a key part in the region.

I wouldn't blame Obama/Biden for the clown show known as the Iraq War (or Second Persian Gulf War).  I can understand people who may have taken issue with how quick Obama/Biden pulled the troops out, but ISIS would have formed whether they did it sooner or later.  Bush was an absolute idiot to remove Saddam Hussein from power, it created a power vacuum the size of a black hole that Sunni and Shia militias were just waiting to fill.  Trying to export democracy to the Middle East is not going to work, and I will credit President Trump for realizing that and drawing down American involvement in that theatre.

What I will rag on Obama and Biden for, however, is Libya.  That intervention was just as foolish, if not even more foolish, than Iraq and Afghanistan combined.  Toppling Gaddafi opened up the refugee floodgates that Southern Europe is currently trying to contend with, and the country remains a destabilized mess to this day.  Whether he was a dictator or not, Gaddafi was a benefit to that region in terms of stability.  Really wish that NATO/EU would stop trying to play the role of kingmaker in these nations, it never works out and always serves to make the problems worse.

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41 minutes ago, Patine said:

Israel, as well as those wretched Persian Gulf Monarchies, are sinkhole, "tails-wagging-the-dog," toxic allies who do next to nothing for the U.S. and certain other Western Powers (like the UK and Canada), but demand constant money, arms, political wrangling to protect them from all consequences their outright endeavours, and constrantly drag (along with big resource, contracting, and armaments corporations) these Western Powers into constant, pointless, and criminal wars in the Middle East. It's the West cut off these false friends and left the bloody quagmire that is the Middle East entirely, Not another bullet, another penny, or another drop of blood for the Middle East! And any Western political leaders who insists these alliances keep on being honoured despite the highly lopsided nature of them, and how little they serve the West (except for a few corrupt, soulless, sociopathic corporates) is guilty of TREASON and SEDITION to their nations and not fit to hold office, because they do not truly have their own nation and people's interests at heart, but are, instead, sniveling, kowtowing, ass-kissing, sell-out, and traitorious vassals to Middle-Eastern warlords and hollow, inhuman plutocrats with empires forged on both oil and blood.

Too much money in the arms dealing business for that lol.

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