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How Progressive Would You Be If You Lived in the early 20th Century?


How Progressive Era Progressive Are You?  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. How many of the 30 points do you believe in? (See first post)

    • All 30 - 100% Progressive
    • About 27 - 90% Progressive
    • About 24 - 80% Progressive
    • About 21 - 70% Progressive
    • About 18 - 60% Progressive
    • About 15 - 50% Progressive
    • About 12 - 40% Progressive
    • About 9 - 30% Progressive
    • About 6 - 20% Progressive
      0
    • About 3 = 10% Progressive
      0
    • 0 = 0% Progressive
      0
  2. 2. Next progressive phase: If you lived during the time of FDR, would you have been an ardent New Dealer?

    • No, I'd oppose all New Deal legislation
    • I'd only support the 1st New Deal, which was a response to the Great Depression.
    • I'd support all of the New Deal, including his 2nd New Deal (Social Security and Labor Union protections) but not FDR's proposed 2nd Bill of Rights.
    • I'd support all of the New Deal and FDR's proposed 2nd Bill of Rights (human rights to employment, healthcare, fair income, housing, education, etc.)
  3. 3. Next progressive phase: If you lived during the time of LBJ, would you have supported LBJ's Great Society Program, inspired by JFK. (check all that apply)

    • Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • Voting Rights Act of 1965
    • Medicare
    • Medicaid
    • Elimination of immigration ethnic, race, and national quotas
    • Housing discrimination ban
    • War on Poverty
    • Food Stamp Act
    • Education funding acts (Elementary, Secondary, and Higher Education Acts)
    • Funding for the arts and public broadcast
    • Massive expansion of Social Security, mostly to take care of the elderly.
    • High speed rail acts
    • Rural development acts
    • Increased minimum wage
    • I would not support any of these
  4. 4. Next progressive phase: Do you support the policy ideas of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and AOC?

    • I overwhelmingly support their policies.
    • I mostly support their policies.
    • I'm inclined to support most of Warren's policies but not that of the open-socialists like Sanders and AOC.
      0
    • I agree with them in a few isolated areas over establishment politicians, but I disagree with them more than I agree with them.
    • I overwhelming do not support their policies.
    • Other
      0


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Below is a 30-point traditional Progressive Era platform of shared ideas by progressives, regardless if they were Republican, Democrat, or Independent. Not every progressive believed in all of these. A Southern Progressive would depart from a Western Progressive, who would depart from a Northeastern Progressive. Generally, a Southern progressive would also be very racist and segregationist. A Western progressive would be very isolationists and favor citizens leading increased democracy rather than big government. Northeastern progressives were more likely to see government as the great good and globalism as a moral cause. In all three varieties, morality, ethics, efficiency, progress, and fairness, are all key ingredients. 

For the most part, the Progressive Movement was a historical victor, with most of what is below becoming a part of the American government, and becoming what is American ultimately. 

Count how many of the 30 points you believe in, and then take the poll to figure out how much of a Progressive you would have been during the Progressive Era, if you went back in time: 

1. I believe there needs to be more efficiency in all areas of society. 

2. I believe government must be purified and corruption eliminated.
3. I believe Worker's Compensation.
4. I believe child labor laws.
5. I believe a minimum wage
6. I believe a limited work week
7. I believe a graduated income tax
8. I believe allowing women to vote
9. I believe in the Hamiltonian concept of positive government.
10. I believe in the Jeffersonian ideal of democracy.
11. I believe the government should act against social evils.
12. I believe the government should actively extend the blessing of Democracy abroad. 
13. I believe the enemy is particularism, states rights, limited government.
14. I believe that the big city bosses are culprits in creating illegal votes.
15. I believe in prohibition to decrease the moral degradation caused by alcohol. 
16. I believe in voting registration to eliminate multiple voting
17. I believe in literacy tests to minimize the number of ignorant voters.
18. I believe in ending the purchase of black votes in the South by powerful whites by disenfranchising black voters. (Southern Progressive thing only)
19. I believe the average citizen should have more control over government.
20. I believe in Direct Democracy, such as ballot initiatives, referendums, and recall elections.
21. I believe in a primary system for elections.
22. I believe in directly elected US Senators.
23. I believe that scientific principles and date should aid in the decision of policy.
24. I believe the government should be led by experienced experts of the highest order.
24. I believe that universal, comprehensive, and compulsory education should be the top agenda to create a workable, reasoned democracy.
25. I believe in the regulation of large corporations.
26. I believe welfare and charity work should be led by train professionals, rather than warm-hearted amateurs, to reduce waste.
27. I believe anti-prostitution laws should be passed to elimate this immoral and dangerous trade
28. I believe in organized labor (Labor Unions) to know what is best for the welfare of American wage workers as opposed to those leading the business sectors.
29. I believe in eugenics to curb family sizes and curb the propagation of children by epileptics, feeble-minded, alcoholics, and other genetically-risky adults. 
30. I believe in the conservation of wildlife and wildlife areas in the midst of increasing urbanization, industrialization, and resource-driven industries. 
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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

@PringlesN7, so you believe in eugenics, prohibition, and racial disenfranchisement? 

I'm surprised those were considered progressive. Though I also see how one could argue that they are, as eugenics would technically "progress" society, at the expense of an extremely harsh violation of individual human rights.

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Just now, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I'm surprised those were considered progressive. Though I also see how one could argue that they are, as eugenics would technically "progress" society, at the expense of an extremely harsh violation of individual human rights.

The first two were all to contain an restrict vice, which was part of the so called moral aspect of Progressivism. Another part of Progressivism was efficiency. Southern Progressives believed that black votes were being sold to wealthy white people who were basically getting more votes. They also believed blacks were incapable of knowing who to vote for, if for a lack of education, if not for racism. Civil Rights actually was mostly ignored by he Progressive Era, sadly. Eugenics was also about efficiency. Healthy minds and bodies were expected to have healthy children. Birth control came out of this as well. The progressive belief was that families and children would have better lives with a smaller family unit. This family could focus on their one, two, or three children, provide for them easier, and be able to educate them better. This was when people were having like 10 to 20 kids (two of my grandparents had like 15 siblings and they weren't catholic). 

These three things were three of the things I don't support. I also don't support anti-prostitute laws. 

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13 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I'm surprised those were considered progressive. Though I also see how one could argue that they are, as eugenics would technically "progress" society, at the expense of an extremely harsh violation of individual human rights.

I should also add that one reason Prohibition occurred was because Progressives thought the Party Bosses controlled the saloons and got votes via those. 

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Interesting to see how people responded to this @Conservative Elector 2 was more progressive than I thought he'd be. Yet, then there's a sharp turn once the New Deal arrives, which in a way is just a fulfillment of the Progressive Era, as is the Great Society of LBJ. 

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15 hours ago, vcczar said:

Below is a 30-point traditional Progressive Era platform of shared ideas by progressives, regardless if they were Republican, Democrat, or Independent. Not every progressive believed in all of these. A Southern Progressive would depart from a Western Progressive, who would depart from a Northeastern Progressive. Generally, a Southern progressive would also be very racist and segregationist. A Western progressive would be very isolationists and favor citizens leading increased democracy rather than big government. Northeastern progressives were more likely to see government as the great good and globalism as a moral cause. In all three varieties, morality, ethics, efficiency, progress, and fairness, are all key ingredients. 

For the most part, the Progressive Movement was a historical victor, with most of what is below becoming a part of the American government, and becoming what is American ultimately. 

Count how many of the 30 points you believe in, and then take the poll to figure out how much of a Progressive you would have been during the Progressive Era, if you went back in time: 

1. I believe there needs to be more efficiency in all areas of society. 

2. I believe government must be purified and corruption eliminated.
3. I believe Worker's Compensation.
4. I believe child labor laws.
5. I believe a minimum wage
6. I believe a limited work week
7. I believe a graduated income tax
8. I believe allowing women to vote
9. I believe in the Hamiltonian concept of positive government.
10. I believe in the Jeffersonian ideal of democracy.
11. I believe the government should act against social evils.
12. I believe the government should actively extend the blessing of Democracy abroad. 
13. I believe the enemy is particularism, states rights, limited government.
14. I believe that the big city bosses are culprits in creating illegal votes.
15. I believe in prohibition to decrease the moral degradation caused by alcohol. 
16. I believe in voting registration to eliminate multiple voting
17. I believe in literacy tests to minimize the number of ignorant voters.
18. I believe in ending the purchase of black votes in the South by powerful whites by disenfranchising black voters. (Southern Progressive thing only)
19. I believe the average citizen should have more control over government.
20. I believe in Direct Democracy, such as ballot initiatives, referendums, and recall elections.
21. I believe in a primary system for elections.
22. I believe in directly elected US Senators.
23. I believe that scientific principles and date should aid in the decision of policy.
24. I believe the government should be led by experienced experts of the highest order.
24. I believe that universal, comprehensive, and compulsory education should be the top agenda to create a workable, reasoned democracy.
25. I believe in the regulation of large corporations.
26. I believe welfare and charity work should be led by train professionals, rather than warm-hearted amateurs, to reduce waste.
27. I believe anti-prostitution laws should be passed to elimate this immoral and dangerous trade
28. I believe in organized labor (Labor Unions) to know what is best for the welfare of American wage workers as opposed to those leading the business sectors.
29. I believe in eugenics to curb family sizes and curb the propagation of children by epileptics, feeble-minded, alcoholics, and other genetically-risky adults. 
30. I believe in the conservation of wildlife and wildlife areas in the midst of increasing urbanization, industrialization, and resource-driven industries. 

This is difficult, because Progressivism was defined differently in Canada in the early 20th Century, and a number of these 30 issues were not big issues at all in Canada, but things like official language (English, or French and English), and First Nations treaty rights and how much they'd be honoured, and crown land retention vs. claims of pioneers into unsettled areas, were much bigger issues than laws designed to cheat African-American of their vote and party primaries (which were not issues at all). Hamilton and Jefferson were infrequently quoted as political sources of governance (though Jefferson was often quoted by Quebec nationalists, but that was about it) - the main divide of opinion on governance were the Laurier and King schools of early Liberalism, the MacDonald, Borden, and Meagan schools of early Red Tory Conservativism, Henry Wise Wood's rising and insurgent Agrarian populism, nascent Quebec nationalism, and the Labour Movement (loosely based on the early British Labour, but divided into a half-dozen separate and distinct Labour Parties across the countries until the CCF was formed). Elected Senators came up to (Canadian Senators are still not elected, but they're now rendered nearly powerless and useless instead :S ), but not as big of an issue. Provincial rights and more self-government as opposed to greater Federal power was very much a growing issue, too. The promise made by Britain to Canada (as well as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa - and, politically a separate British holding at the time - Newfoundland) of full independence in "a timely fashion," with a Commonwealth for the blood of the young men of those nations in World War One was a big promise to push on by many. Many of the others among the 30 points above that are general and not unique as issues to the U.S. are much easier to answer. The New Deal is not how Canada dealt with the Great Depression, the Great Society was not an issue here, as such, in that way. As for the last question, I have voted for quite a few elections, Federally and Provincially, the New Democratic Party, a party with quite similar policies to those three politicians - and that somehow gets more traction, support, and success here. But, again, I will end by saying that Progressivism was defined a bit differently in Canada in the early 20th Century - especially in the nittly gritty of context and specifically applicable issues.

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5 minutes ago, Patine said:

This is difficult, because Progressivism was defined differently in Canada in the early 20th Century, and a number of these 30 issues were not big issues at all in Canada, but things like official language (English, or French and English), and First Nations treaty rights and how much they'd be honoured, and crown land retention vs. claims of pioneers into unsettled areas, were much bigger issues than laws designed to cheat African-American of their vote and party primaries (which were not issues at all). Hamilton and Jefferson were infrequently quoted as political sources of governance (though Jefferson was often quoted by Quebec nationalists, but that was about it) - the main divide of opinion on governance were the Laurier and King schools of early Liberalism, the MacDonald, Borden, and Meagan schools of early Red Tory Conservativism, Henry Wise Wood's rising and insurgent Agrarian populism, nascent Quebec nationalism, and the Labour Movement (loosely based on the early British Labour, but divided into a half-dozen separate and distinct Labour Parties across the countries until the CCF was formed). Elected Senators came up to (Canadian Senators are still not elected, but they're now rendered nearly powerless and useless instead :S ), but not as big of an issue. Provincial rights and more self-government as opposed to greater Federal power was very much a growing issue, too. The promise made by Britain to Canada (as well as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa - and, politically a separate British holding at the time - Newfoundland) of full independence in "a timely fashion," with a Commonwealth for the blood of the young men of those nations in World War One was a big promise to push on by many. Many of the others among the 30 points above that are general and not unique as issues to the U.S. are much easier to answer. The New Deal is not how Canada dealt with the Great Depression, the Great Society was not an issue here, as such, in that way. As for the last question, I have voted for quite a few elections, Federally and Provincially, the New Democratic Party, a party with quite similar policies to those three politicians - and that somehow gets more traction, support, and success here. But, again, I will end by saying that Progressivism was defined a bit differently in Canada in the early 20th Century - especially in the nittly gritty of context and specifically applicable issues.

Are you going to take the poll?

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1 minute ago, vcczar said:

Are you going to take the poll?

I mean I could. I just don't think it would accurately and precisely answer the overarching title question of the thread in my case.

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39 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Interesting to see how people responded to this @Conservative Elector 2 was more progressive than I thought he'd be. Yet, then there's a sharp turn once the New Deal arrives, which in a way is just a fulfillment of the Progressive Era, as is the Great Society of LBJ. 

I am also surprised about what is labelled progressive among the 30 points. I'd call these for example pretty conservative viewpoints. 

15. I believe in prohibition to decrease the moral degradation caused by alcohol. 
16. I believe in voting registration to eliminate multiple voting
17. I believe in literacy tests to minimize the number of ignorant voters.
27. I believe anti-prostitution laws should be passed to elimate this immoral and dangerous trade
 
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8 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I am also surprised about what is labelled progressive among the 30 points. I'd call these for example pretty conservative viewpoints. 

15. I believe in prohibition to decrease the moral degradation caused by alcohol. 
16. I believe in voting registration to eliminate multiple voting
17. I believe in literacy tests to minimize the number of ignorant voters.
27. I believe anti-prostitution laws should be passed to elimate this immoral and dangerous trade
 

You, of course know that number 15 caused far deaths than when alcohol is legal (and the ONLY moral choice involved is the choice of the drink or not - it is NOT matter for Government "morality"), plus murderous and lawless men like Al Capone got RICH of off prohibition). Number 17 is one of the pillars of the Jim Crow Laws. As a social worker, I can attest, that 27 has a lot more immorality and danger lurking while prostitution is illegal, as opposed to legal and regulated. Would you possibly like to consider any of these three, or do you stand by your final (and probably out-of-touch and uninformed) answers.

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@vcczar My detailed list.

1. I believe there needs to be more efficiency in all areas of society. CHECK

2. I believe government must be purified and corruption eliminated. CHECK
3. I believe Worker's Compensation. CHECK (We should be fair, otherwise we would pay nothing?! That'd be bad for the worker's morale)
4. I believe child labor laws. CHECK (Personally I think a 12 y/o for example could work as a newspaper boy. Where's the problem here? However, using children for mining could lead to more problems down the road)
5. I believe a minimum wage NO
6. I believe a limited work week NO (except if that means we obey Sundays and Shabbat) 
7. I believe a graduated income tax NO
8. I believe allowing women to vote NO (I am probably too socially conservative to have supported it back then)
9. I believe in the Hamiltonian concept of positive government. CHECK
10. I believe in the Jeffersonian ideal of democracy. CHECK
11. I believe the government should act against social evils. CHECK (another conservative talking point)
12. I believe the government should actively extend the blessing of Democracy abroad. CHECK (that's interventionism, also conservative)
13. I believe the enemy is particularism, states rights, limited government. NO
14. I believe that the big city bosses are culprits in creating illegal votes. CHECK (probably, I am not informed enough on this)
15. I believe in prohibition to decrease the moral degradation caused by alcohol. CHECK
16. I believe in voting registration to eliminate multiple voting CHECK
17. I believe in literacy tests to minimize the number of ignorant voters. CHECK
18. I believe in ending the purchase of black votes in the South by powerful whites by disenfranchising black voters. (Southern Progressive thing only) CHECK (we are not buying any votes, otherwise I don't know what happened exactly at that time)
19. I believe the average citizen should have more control over government. CHECK
20. I believe in Direct Democracy, such as ballot initiatives, referendums, and recall elections. NO
21. I believe in a primary system for elections.  CHECK
22. I believe in directly elected US Senators. CHECK
23. I believe that scientific principles and date should aid in the decision of policy. CHECK
24. I believe the government should be led by experienced experts of the highest order. CHECK
24. I believe that universal, comprehensive, and compulsory education should be the top agenda to create a workable, reasoned democracy. CHECK
25. I believe in the regulation of large corporations. NO
26. I believe welfare and charity work should be led by train professionals, rather than warm-hearted amateurs, to reduce waste. CHECK
27. I believe anti-prostitution laws should be passed to elimate this immoral and dangerous trade CHECK
28. I believe in organized labor (Labor Unions) to know what is best for the welfare of American wage workers as opposed to those leading the business sectors. NO
29. I believe in eugenics to curb family sizes and curb the propagation of children by epileptics, feeble-minded, alcoholics, and other genetically-risky adults. NO
30. I believe in the conservation of wildlife and wildlife areas in the midst of increasing urbanization, industrialization, and resource-driven industries. CHECK
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15 hours ago, vcczar said:

@PringlesN7, so you believe in eugenics, prohibition, and racial disenfranchisement? 

I actually didn't read the 30 points... oops. I'd revise it if I could. Funny how those were included at the time to be "progressive" though. I'd definitely believe in all of them besides 3. So 27/30. I assumed too much that the 30 points would be everything else mentioned. Such as anti-Child Labor, etc. etc. 

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9 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I am also surprised about what is labelled progressive among the 30 points. I'd call these for example pretty conservative viewpoints. 

15. I believe in prohibition to decrease the moral degradation caused by alcohol. 
16. I believe in voting registration to eliminate multiple voting
17. I believe in literacy tests to minimize the number of ignorant voters.
27. I believe anti-prostitution laws should be passed to elimate this immoral and dangerous trade
 

They weren't back then. Progressivism had a very scientific and moral aspect to it (still does). Progressives thought saloon were controlled by corrupt party bosses and that alcoholism was affecting society and voter decision and things like that. Voter registration was enacted because it was believed that wealthy people were purchasing votes, and this would stop that. Literacy tests was part of the efficiency aspect of of progressivism, which sought a well-informed electorate making the decisions. The anti-prostitution aspect was done primarily to reduce the spread of venereal diseases and for the safety of the women involved. Progressivism of this time is basically a resurgence of the same abolitionist moral fervor. Abolitionists were often also prohibitionists, and anti-bigamy (opposed to Mormon plural marriage). 

Progressives didn't really back away from prohibition until the late 1920s and early 1930s, when Northern progressives changed their opinions on it. South and most of the West still liked prohibition, but opted to do it at a local level. 

The voting registration thing has never been opposed by progressives. What they oppose are strict voter IDs that require a difficult to obtain ID and any other voter suppressing policy. In the US it is very hard to get an ID if you don't have a stable residence or don't have ID to get ID. There's other criticisms of strict ID. 

Literacy Tests were disavowed by progressives once they embraced Civil Rights in the 1940s. Literacy tests are now illegal. 

Anti-Prostitution was mostly disavowed by Progressives following the 1960s counter-revolution. 

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