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Postponing elections


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New Zealand has recently announced it is postponing elections due to some COVID-19 cases being detected in the country (after 100 days with none).

Do you think this was the right move?

Awhile back, Trump suggested the possibility of delaying elections due to COVID-19. 

Do you think that would be the right move?

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Just now, pilight said:

The president said last week the virus was well contained.  There's no reason to postpone the elections.

Sure, but New Zealand is one of the top countries in efforts to contain the virus, and they're suggesting the same.

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The difference here is that the body with the authority to move the election, the Prime Minister, did so and did it within the time frame that elections must happen in NZ anyway. It was a constitutional move by all accounts. 

Trump delaying the election would not be. 

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34 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

New Zealand has recently announced it is postponing elections due to some COVID-19 cases being detected in the country (after 100 days with none).

Do you think this was the right move?

Awhile back, Trump suggested the possibility of delaying elections due to COVID-19. 

Do you think that would be the right move?

I don't know how New Zealand works or the makup of their Constitution. 

We have a process for having an election -- both for voting (mail in ballots, if need be) and for transfer of power (A new person will become president on election day if a president is not reelected). Abraham Lincoln didn't delay the 1864 election even though he was dealing with a Civil War and was facing what appeared as certain defeat in the polls until Atlanta was captured. Hoover didn't change the election day during the Great Depression and the protests involving that. Wilson did not change election day during the Spanish Flu, which lasted from 1918-through the early 1920s. 

I think Trump only motivation for delaying the election is the belief that it will help him get reelected. We all know he wouldn't suggest this if he had Biden's polling numbers. It's a tactic for someone that doesn't want to lose and is seeking an authoritarian solution to win. 

This is absolutely the wrong move considering we can have mail in ballots. We don't move the election date (we don't know when Covid will end), and we make it safer to vote. It's simple. 

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9 minutes ago, vcczar said:

We have a process for having an election

Sure, but if the election date were moved, presumably it would be done within the constitutional process for moving it. No?

9 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Trump only motivation for delaying the election

Isn't this more important than Trump's motivation? The question is whether delaying the election at this point is the right thing to do vis a vis COVID-19. In NZ, the answer seems 'yes'.

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20 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I think Trump only motivation for delaying the election is the belief that it will help him get reelected.

The only motivation he could possibly have is so he can cement his position and be a dictator! Not a very good one, mind, considering his term ends on January 20th whatever happens...

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46 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

How would Trump delay the election if it wasn't constitutional?

Exactly. He has no authority to do so, so his pondering is pointless. Only Congress has that authority and unless he is blatantly authoritarian, we aren’t going to have a delayed election due to his action. There’s no way I can see it done, and I doubt he’d go that route despite him being very heavy on the executive action over congressional action. 

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1 hour ago, admin_270 said:

New Zealand has recently announced it is postponing elections due to some COVID-19 cases being detected in the country (after 100 days with none).

Do you think this was the right move?

Awhile back, Trump suggested the possibility of delaying elections due to COVID-19. 

Do you think that would be the right move?

Absolutely not.

Why on earth would we delay the election for a Democrat hoax?

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16 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Sure, but if the election date were moved, presumably it would be done within the constitutional process for moving it. No?

Isn't this more important than Trump's motivation? The question is whether delaying the election at this point is the right thing to do vis a vis COVID-19. In NZ, the answer seems 'yes'.

Maybe in NZ it is yes, but not here. We have mail in ballots. There isn't really an easy constitutional way to move the election either, and it would certainly get blocked by the courts or fail in Congress.

It's a little odd that Trump claims to be containing the virus, wants kids to go back to schools but then acts as if voting precinct are cesspools of Covid and that mail in ballots don't exist. It's clearly Trump wanting to win. If he wants to make voting safe, he should promote mail-in ballots, the very same method he uses for voting and plans to use for voting. I don't usually like to use the term dictator with Trump as some people like to use, but this would be a dictator move. It's 100% opportunist with almost 0% chance of it being in consideration of the people first. Trump would oppose this if he had Biden's numbers in the polls. 

They aren't going to move the election day. He has to do this via Congress as he has no power on his own to do this. Democrats control the House and they'll get enough Senators to join Dems if it somehow passes the House (0% chance for this). 

First, it's odd that people keep talking about this like it is something that 1) has a even an off-chance of happening--it doesn't. 2) as something that people want or that politicians want to happen (they mostly don't). 3) That there is even a reason for this to happen (there isn't -- mail in ballots)

15 minutes ago, pilight said:

I think you mean inauguration day

Yeah, that's what I meant.

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24 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Sure, but if the election date were moved, presumably it would be done within the constitutional process for moving it. No?

There isn't one. Not one that involves Trump, at least.

The date is set by Congress, per the Constitution.  And even the Republican held Senate has said "no" thus far.  Even if they change their mind, they won't sway the Democrat House.    It's a non-starter, not even worth bringing up.

Trump could try to declare a national emergency and say that now it's up to him, but there's no support for that legally.  

The real play is to call for a different election day, have that call be denied, and then use that as your fuel for calling the entire election into question.  "Sure, Joe Biden got more votes...because my supporters are poor elderly folk who Democrats scared into staying at home and then they stuffed the mailboxes with illegal votes and..."

It's all just smoke and mirrors with Trump.  I don't believe he actually wants the date changed.  He just wants people to question whether the date would be changed, and the validity of mail-in votes, and 100 other things that Trump will later use to deny the outcome of the election.

 

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9 minutes ago, vcczar said:

We have mail in ballots.

NZ has voting by mail. Why don't they just switch to mail in or online instead of postponing the election?

10 minutes ago, vcczar said:

this would be a dictator mov

What would be a dictator move? 

Again, this isn't really about *Trump*. The question is about the appropriateness of moving the election, given ongoing significant COVID-19 activity in the respective countries.

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2 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

NZ has voting by mail. Why don't they just switch to mail in or online instead of postponing the election?

What would be a dictator move? 

Again, this isn't really about *Trump*. The question is about the appropriateness of moving the election, given ongoing significant COVID-19 activity in the respective countries.

In regards to NZ. I don't know. With the little I've gathered, I'd lean towards that they shouldn't post-pone the election. I don't see a reaosn to do so if they have mail in voting. They might have more political harmony there that makes such a move not really controversial. They may have a precedence and an easy way to do that. 

In regards to part two, you are being a little wooden-headed here. Clearly, any politician that wants to move an election because they are losing in the polls (which can be the ONLY reason Trump is doing this, since there is NO good reason for moving it, especially when he doesn't think Covid is a big deal) is making a move akin to being a dictator. If this were about Biden or Obama doing this you'd probably be the first to write a post about it being dictatorial. 

Lastly, this *IS* about Trump. He is the one that suggested it. He is the reason why it would be moved. It isn't even appropriate with mail in ballots. It's completely unnecessary. 

 

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6 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

The question isn't about whether it will happen, it's about whether it *ought* to happen.

Well, you should just make it a poll so you can see the overwhelming "No" votes. 

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8 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

The question isn't about whether it will happen, it's about whether it *ought* to happen.

Well, it's a bit of both, because we also need to explore the "why" of it.

If it was actually about making people safer, maybe!  But...in what way would people be safer?  I mean, if you really wanted people to be safer, you'd be calling for mail-in ballots.  But instead, they're trying to make those even harder to come by.  

So, they want to delay in-person voting, but still keep it in-person.  Why?  Delay it until when?  Election day is early November.  The constitution establishes that Trump's current term will end on January 20th, no matter what.  There are zero ways to change that.  So...when do you want to have this in-person election?  How many days after early November are we suddenly going to be safe, if we haven't gotten there in the prior ten months?  If there's no vaccine by November 3rd, do we really believe everyone will be vaccinated by November 20th?  By December 5th?  When?

So it's not really about that either.

It's just about shaking people's confidence in an election that currently seems to not be going in Trump's favor.

And it's not like we're pulling this suspicion out of a hat.  He did the exact same thing in 2016, under the assumption he was going to lose.  It just wasn't as big of a deal back then because he didn't have any actual power yet.  It's much bigger now.  https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/episode/trump-wont-accept-election-results-if-he-loses-clinton-expands-campaign-red-states

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1 minute ago, vcczar said:

a little wooden-headed here

I think it's perhaps the other way around. You guys are *insisting* the question has to be about Trump's motives. But it obviously doesn't have to be, and isn't.

2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

It isn't even appropriate with mail in ballots. It's completely unnecessary.

Even with mail in, presumably a large % of people will vote in person, no?

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2 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

How many days after early November are we suddenly going to be safe, if we haven't gotten there in the prior ten months?  If there's no vaccine by November 3rd, do we really believe everyone will be vaccinated by November 20th?  By December 5th?  When?

OK, so this is starting to sound reasonable. One reason to delay would be if a vaccine is likely to be available soon after Nov. 3rd. No?

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Just now, admin_270 said:

OK, so this is starting to sound reasonable. One reason to delay would be if a vaccine is likely to be available soon after Nov. 3rd. No?

Sure.  But what would be be basing that belief off of in the middle of August?

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56 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

But what would be be basing that belief off of in the middle of August?

Right, how would we know? So it would be guesswork. Certainly the later the date, the more likely a vaccine would be available.

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14 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Right, how would we know? So it would be guesswork. Certainly the later the date, the more likely a vaccine would be available.

Let's have the 2020 election in 2025.  Surely it's statistically more likely that we'll have a vaccine by then.

But it is not significantly more likely that we'll have achieved world-wide immunity two or three or six weeks after November 3rd.

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10 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Let's have the 2020 election in 2025.  Surely it's statistically more likely that we'll have a vaccine by then.

Obviously that's too late. But would the chances by much higher if held in, say, December?

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