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Don't get cocky and don't get complacent


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7 minutes ago, vcczar said:

allows me to read or blank out (thinking). Every once in awhile I get in a good conversation with someone I'll never see again. 

I am really good at tuning people out

Ya, this makes a big difference. I am not good a tuning people out in those situations, and can't read for long (or I start to feel sick, on buses at least).

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Just now, vcczar said:

That's because you took it during rush hour. Same thing happens in NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, etc. I would hang out in whatever city I was in for about an hour or more and then go home just to avoid it. I always had places I wanted to go see, so it never bothered me to wait. Generally, I went to a bookstore, coffee shop, ate somewhere, hung out with a co-worker, went to a bar, walked around, etc. 

I've only been on the DC subway a few times, but it was never crowded when I was on it. 

Fair enough.  I had a pregnant wife and then a baby to get home to.  It was already a 1.5 hour commute to get home -- if I waited another hour on top of that, they would have been asleep.

We lived about half an hour (drive) beyond the farthest metro line.  So I'd drive half an hour, park, get on the subway at the end of the line, ride it 30 minutes nto downtown DC, walk to work from the stop.  Not terrible -- I was guaranteed a seat because I was one of the first people on at the end of the line.

But the way home was a nightmare.  By the time the subway car would reach my stop in the middle of the city, it was usually already packed full of people from earlier stops.  There was a baseball stadium along my route, so on days when there was a game, five or six trains would pass by without even bothering to stop because they were so full.  One hour to get to work, but 1.5 to 2 hours to get home...assuming none of the trains broke down, at which point it might be four or five hours.

I don't miss DC at ALL.

 

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23 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Ya, this makes a big difference. I am not good a tuning people out in those situations, and can't read for long (or I start to feel sick, on buses at least).

I can daydream at will, get lost in though or on a projects. Bombs can go off around me I wouldn't notice them. This was really helpful when I worked as the manager of a video game store at age 18. There were so many loud kids and loud video game consoles going off all at once. People would ask me how I could deal with that all day. I'd honestly respond, "I don't even notice it unless someone points it out." I'm like that with outside the house noise. I can also sleep in a living room and the noises of people walking back and forth don't bother me. I might wake up, but I go back to sleep the next second. Doesn't irritate me. I'm also not a creature of comfort so undesirable sounds, hard chairs, unseasoned food, things like that that tend to bother most poeple don't really bother me. I also don't get motion sickness. I read a lot on trains and such. I might just be a natural fit for public transportation. 

I think most of my irritants come from my own impatience. I have high standards for myself and I often expect others to have the same -- personal integrity, work ethic, curiosity, love for learning, etc. I often have to remind myself that I'm dealing with another person and not myself. 

Going back to not tuning people out. Sometimes when I take a break from a book, I purposely try to listen to other people. A lot of the time it's interesting becaus of how ridiculous the conversations are. Sometimes I'll insert it into something I'm writing if I'm working on creative writing, such as poetry.

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1 hour ago, Actinguy said:

Not in a DC metro (subway).  Sardine city.  There were times I'd feel my phone buzz in my pocket and couldn't even get to it because we were packed in too tight.

Was the DC Metro designed and built by Tokyo transit civic engineers? :P

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3 minutes ago, Patine said:

Was the DC Metro designed and built by Tokyo transit civic engineers? :P

Maybe!  I won't pretend to know the history, but it's honestly possible as you have a lot of the same problems -- a crapton of people to move in the same direction, at the same time, and finite resources to accomplish that with.

I've been to Tokyo twice but never used the subway.  But it seems to be about the same.

While we are somehow on this topic, a shoutout to South Korea's subway system in Seoul (the capital).  I couldn't read a single word in Hangul (the written language) but I never got lost in the city for the two years that I lived there.  The subway system was extremely intuitive and easy to use -- and because traffic wasn't a nightmare like it is in DC, it wasn't over-utilized either.  The only time I remember it being particularly crowded was on my way home from an Avril Lavigne concert there.

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2 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Maybe!  I won't pretend to know the history, but it's honestly possible as you have a lot of the same problems -- a crapton of people to move in the same direction, at the same time, and finite resources to accomplish that with.

I've been to Tokyo twice but never used the subway.  But it seems to be about the same.

While we are somehow on this topic, a shoutout to South Korea's subway system in Seoul (the capital).  I couldn't read a single word in Hangul (the written language) but I never got lost in the city for the two years that I lived there.  The subway system was extremely intuitive and easy to use -- and because traffic wasn't a nightmare like it is in DC, it wasn't over-utilized either.  The only time I remember it being particularly crowded was on my way home from an Avril Lavigne concert there.

Of course, the Tokyo Subway famously employs Sumotori who lose too many matches as "station crowd ushers." :P

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18 hours ago, Hestia11 said:

Evidence? Care to cite any of your own? I doubt the counterproductive effect is nearly as bad as you're saying than people just not wearing masks in the first place and believing its a hoax and doing those activities anyway.

Here are a few recent publications, since you asked.

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8 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Here are a few recent publications, since you asked.

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Just as I look it up - the first one has not been peer-reviewed and thus is not supported by clinical trials. 

The second is the same. So those actually haven't been supported by their peers, and thus aren't considered to be medical practice and aren't advised to be used in medical practice. 

So really, you have 2 at max that support your 'point of view'. 

 

The last article I read and the study ended with this

In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks, but compliance in uninfected close contacts could be a problem (12,34). Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission (39). Thus, education on the proper use and disposal of used face masks, including hand hygiene, is also needed.

Basically, what we've been saying. People need to know how to use them, otherwise it won't work the way it's supposed to. That's not a "new" viewpoint. 

I would prefer to take my advice from John's Hopkins https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know rather than a few articles that not all have even been approved by their peers. 

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@admin_270

Respiratory Virus Shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks (May 27, 2020) : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3  "Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals" 

Community Use of Face Masks and COVID-19: Evidence from a  natural experiment of state mandates in the US (June 16, 2020): https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818 "Estimates suggest that as a result of the implementation of these mandates, more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases were averted by May 22, 2020.  The findings suggest that requring face mask use in public could help in mitigating the spread of COVID-19.

Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks (June 15, 2020): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Association_of_country-wide_coronavirus_mortality_with_demographics_testing_lockdowns_and_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_June_15_2020  "Societal norms and government policies supporting the wearing of masks by the public, as well as international travel controls, are independently associated with lower per-capita mortality from COVID-19."

Lack of COVID-19 transmission on an international flight (April 14, 2020): https://www.cmaj.ca/content/192/15/E410 Symptomatic man flies from Wuhan, China to Canada, where he tests positive for COVID-19.  They then test everyone else who was on the flight -- even though he was coughing the entire flight, all 350 passengers tested negative, except for his wife.  Why?  Because he was wearing a mask on the flight, but not when he was alone with his wife.

Two hair stylists both test positive for COVID-19, but none of the 140 customers they were in close contact with tested positive.  (June 17, 2020): https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/06/17/masks-salons-missouri/ Why?  Because both the hair stylists and the customers wore masks.

 

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17 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

the first one has not been peer-reviewed and thus is not supported by clinical trials

The second thing you are talking about isn't related to the first in the way you think it is.

But no, these are very recent, and haven't completed the peer review process.

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28 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Respiratory Virus Shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks

Sure, there is evidence in support of masks reducing the rate of transmission. I don't think the links you gave are the most compelling evidence we have right now, TBH. Even with stronger scientific considerations, I actually think the best evidence is more common-sensical. The big question is with pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread, though, and that's where universal mask mandates gain their traction (otherwise, only mask people who are symptomatic, such as the fellow on the airplane in your 3rd link).

But it would be great if true! Just mask, and all our problems disappear!

Except you have countries with mask mandates, and the problems don't disappear (such as Peru - not just a mask mandate but a mask and face shields mandate).

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Just now, admin_270 said:

Sure, there is evidence in support of masks reducing the rate of spread of transmission. I don't think the links you gave are the most compelling evidence we have right now, TBH. Even with stronger scientific considerations, I actually think the best evidence is more common-sensical. The big question is with pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread, though, and that's where universal mask mandates gain their traction (otherwise, only mask people who are symptomatic, such as the fellow on the airplane in your 3rd link).

But it would be great if true! Just mask, and all our problems disappear!

Except you have countries with mask mandates, and the problems don't disappear (such as Peru - not just a mask mandate but a mask and face shields mandate).

You're still pretending two different things are the same.

Nobody is saying problems disappear.

They ARE saying that problems become significantly less prevalent.

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3 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

They ARE saying that problems become significantly less prevalent.

Right, and that's where careful analysis comes in. If you're not getting very clear cut cause and effect, you need to look for a more subtle causal relation. Unfortunately, as with most things sociological, all sorts of variables are changing all the time. Hence the difficulty in testing how much of an effect (and which way) mask wearing has on the spread of COVID-19.

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14 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

They ARE saying that problems become significantly less prevalent.

There seems to be some disagreement among public health officials about masking.

For my own case, our PHO was slow to get on the mask bandwagon, and even now, the government's site currently reads

"If you are healthy, wearing a non-medical or cloth mask or face covering is a matter of personal choice and it might help to protect others. [...] Wearing a cloth mask might not protect you from COVID-19 [...] Any mask, no matter how good it is at catching droplets or how well it seals, will have minimal effect if it is not used together with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand washing and physical distancing."

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/prevention-risks/masks

So there are varying views on the subject by top experts. Certainly, the consensus has moved towards masks helping slow the spread, but there's lots of room for reasonable disagreement, it seems.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

There seems to be some disagreement among public health officials about masking.

For my own case, our PHO was slow to get on the mask bandwagon, and even now, the government's site currently reads

"If you are healthy, wearing a non-medical or cloth mask or face covering is a matter of personal choice and it might help to protect others. [...] Wearing a cloth mask might not protect you from COVID-19 [...] Any mask, no matter how good it is at catching droplets or how well it seals, will have minimal effect if it is not used together with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand washing and physical distancing."

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/prevention-risks/masks

So there are varying views on the subject by top experts. Certainly, the consensus has moved towards masks helping slow the spread, but there's lots of room for reasonable disagreement, it seems.

Wait...did you think I was advocating not washing your hands?

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