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1 minute ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

As you can imagine my position here is conservative. What I hate the most is professors might grade you down when you're not using ''gender appropriate language'' in your paper which only can be reproduced by using complex sentence structures with ''*'', ''/'', ''-'' and large ''I''s in German sentences. Every noun also has two forms here. Lehrer means a male (school) teacher, Lehrerin a female (school) teacher. The sane standard is to use the male form which includes all people and was used in this way for centuries. You can imagine how sentences look like when written ''correct''. It's a also an impudence towards foreigners who struggle to learn our language anyway.

Might?  Is it actually happening?

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I'm late to this post, but as someone on this forum who identifies as Nonbinary and uses They/Them pronouns (as well as someone who works with LGBTQ) causes I just wanted to chime in with a few stray

I’m saying that I try not to be a jerk about these kinds of things.     I’m not sure that this post/thread is necessary, especially when to my knowledge there aren’t any women here, much less a

C'mon man, really? We're better than this.

5 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

What I hate the most is professors might grade you down when you're not using ''gender appropriate language'' in your paper

Ya, time to leave the university and do something else with your $ or time, methinks.

Of course, universities are a bottleneck to various professions. When I was hiring people, I couldn't care less if they had a university degree or not. The best coder I ever hired didn't have one. Guy was as productive as 5 other coders combined.

My university degrees were irrelevant to my profession - and I enjoyed arguing with politically correct professors, lecturers, and fellow students. But when I went through the cultural Marxism hadn't set in this bad.

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6 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Might?  Is it actually happening?

Well, we all know how things work. They stress it in several class meetings but they do not officially say you are required to do it. Some saner professors say they don't care and you are free to do it or not. Many people have difficulties to write the minimum of words anyway, so they choose this path to gain words in their texts. Smart isn't it? 

Everyone knows it's a factor when most professors are grading, as you are told you did a good job when writing in a nearly unreadable way in a meeting after handing your work in... I haven't read the University's rights, but it's actually a big issue to reform the academical writings towards so-called ''equality'' and I do think point reduction is mentioned somewhere if you do not comply with the guidelines, which are definitely pro-gender speech. As I said they don't care foreigners will have difficulties to read these texts and just because someone writes the way we learned to write, doesn't mean these people intend to offend someone here. 

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Just now, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Well, we all know how things work. They stress it in several class meetings but they do not officially say you are required to do it. Some saner professors say they don't care and you are free to do it or not. Many people have difficulties to write the minimum of words anyway, so they choose this path to gain words in their texts. Smart isn't it? 

Everyone knows it's a factor when most professors are grading, as you are told you did a good job when writing in a nearly unreadable way in a meeting after handing your work in... I haven't read the University's rights, but it's actually a big issue to reform the academical writings towards so-called ''equality'' and I do think point reduction is mentioned somewhere if you do not comply with the guidelines, which are definitely pro-gender speech. As I said they don't care foreigners will have difficulties to read these texts and just because someone writes the way we learned to write, doesn't mean these people intend to offend someone here. 

So...no?

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6 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Ya, time to leave the university and do something else with your $ or time, methinks.

Well, universities are mostly free in Austria currently. You are required to pay about just 20$ (€) each semester. Some people even get assistance for living so they sign up for studying while their attendance is mediocre. Others don't hand in their graduation when they actually received their last mark in order to get the assistance for a longer period. I am not sure if you have to pay this kind of student loan back.

That's also the reason many people argue for paying up to 400€ each semester (this is the sum you have to pay if you don't get a bachelor in 8 semesters or a master in additional 6 semesters). Money isn't a factor to leave a university in Austria. It's a factor to sign up for it actually.

However, I understand your argument. As a right-winger it's difficult there anyway. I try to avoid politics on the whole.

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1 minute ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Well, universities are mostly free in Austria currently.

Ha! Of course.

2 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

However, I understand your argument. As a right-winger it's difficult there anyway. I try to avoid politics on the whole.

All the more reason to organize with fellow conservatives and articulate your viewpoints. Society benefits from this sort of process of back and forth debate, not stifling different viewpoints.

If no one speaks up, you will continue to lose your freedom of expression, and - ultimately - freedom of thought.

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5 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

So...no?

Not for me yet as I am not that stupid to provoke them (as I said I try to avoid politics largely), but everyone can assume they would do so. I googled it. In 2014 the Austrian newspaper Die Presse noted that a foreign student at a college of applied sciences (somewhat like a community college or a second tier university here) got a negative mark because of not using gender speech in a paper. According to the article it's required at some of these colleges but not at all institutions. The professor allegedly said that he would “mark the best work that is not gender-neutral with a five (negative grade)”. https://www.diepresse.com/4610279/kein-gendern-schlechtere-note-ist-einzelfall (it's in German but anyway)

Translated from an official University of Vienna website:

Formulations such as “Studenten und Studentinnen (m/f for university student)” only speak of two genders (male and female). General clauses such as “women are included” also do not speak of all genders on how to use the ''I''. To make the reality of gender diversity linguistically visible one should work with an asterisk *. The so-called gender star * is spoken as a short pause in oral communication.

Well, I would not want to argue with a professor about this, as I believe we are intending to learn other things in our time there.

 

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11 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

All the more reason to organize with fellow conservatives and articulate your viewpoints. Society benefits from this sort of process of back and forth debate, not stifling different viewpoints.

If no one speaks up, you will continue to lose your freedom of expression, and - ultimately - freedom of thought.

You are absolutely right, but I became focused on advancing my studies first. My revolutionary phase is done I guess.

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17 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

You are absolutely right, but I became focused on advancing my studies first. My revolutionary phase is done I guess.

Totally understand. Many people just want to get through university and on with their life, especially I think conservatives.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

Totally understand. Many people just want to get through university and on with their life, especially I think conservatives.

Why do you assume that's mostly a conservative thing?

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1 hour ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

As you can imagine my position here is conservative. What I hate the most is professors might grade you down when you're not using ''gender appropriate language'' in your paper which only can be reproduced by using complex sentence structures with ''*'', ''/'', ''-'' and large ''I''s in German sentences. Every noun also has two forms here. Lehrer means a male (school) teacher, Lehrerin means a female (school) teacher. The sane standard is to use the male form which includes all people and was used in this way for centuries. You can imagine how sentences look like when written ''correct''. It's a also an impudence towards foreigners who struggle to learn our language anyway.

 

49 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Well, universities are mostly free in Austria currently. You are required to pay about just 20$ (€) each semester. Some people even get assistance for living so they sign up for studying while their attendance is mediocre. Others don't hand in their graduation when they actually received their last mark in order to get the assistance for a longer period. I am not sure if you have to pay this kind of student loan back.

That's also the reason many people argue for paying up to 400€ each semester (this is the sum you have to pay if you don't get a bachelor in 8 semesters or a master in additional 6 semesters). Money isn't a factor to leave a university in Austria. It's a factor to sign up for it actually.

However, I understand your argument. As a right-winger it's difficult there anyway. I try to avoid politics on the whole.

The problem with modern Social Conservatism, as it is seen in predominantly Christian countries, is it claims to be based directly on "Christian principals and doctrines," but in truth flies in the face and misinterprets grossly the Ministry of Christ, even being completely anathema and antithesis to the Ministry of Christ in many areas, using the Lord's Name in vain to promote a heretical and blasphemous ideal Hate, Death, Greed, War, and Intolerance plastered by the Wolves in Sheep's Clothing for their own ulterior agendas and secular power on the Earth over the proper Church of Love, Life, Charity, Peace, and Forgiveness. I find modern Social Conservativism in the Christian world an offensive, warped, and repugnant institution, not from the point-of-view of a non-believer, but from the point-of-view as a devout Christian who actually read and was open to our Lord and Saviour's Ministry.

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9 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

Everyone has struggles in different areas. I live in a rural area and being a liberal here is not good, akin to a conservative in a city. 

That's true. If all other surroundings are good, I would not move because of politics.

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10 minutes ago, Patine said:

The problem with modern Social Conservatism, as it is seen in predominantly Christian countries, is it claims to be based directly on "Christian principals and doctrines," but in truth flies in the face and misinterprets grossly the Ministry of Christ, even being completely anathema and antithesis to the Ministry of Christ in many areas, using the Lord's Name in vain to promote a heretical and blasphemous ideal Hate, Death, Greed, War, and Intolerance plastered by the Wolves in Sheep's Clothing for their own ulterior agendas and secular power on the Earth over the proper Church of Love, Life, Charity, Peace, and Forgiveness. I find modern Social Conservativism in the Christian world an offensive, warped, and repugnant institution, not from the point-of-view of a non-believer, but from the point-of-view as a devout Christian who actually read and was open to our Lord and Saviour's Ministry.

Yeah, I am largely following a practical conservatism in most areas as well. I don't see something desirable in making a language way too difficult just to appease .1% of the people. It went from include women noticeable when talking (I believe they have already been included when using the ''male'' form which was in fact defined as male for reasons I don't know) to include all people which is simply not practicable in everyday situations.

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31 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Yeah, I am largely following a practical conservatism in most areas as well. I don't see something desirable in making a language way too difficult just to appease .1% of the people. It went from include women noticeable when talking (I believe they have already been included when using the ''male'' form which was in fact defined as male for reasons I don't know) to include all people which is simply not practicable in everyday situations.

What is "practical conservatism," and from whence does it derive any source of a claim to moral or ethical higher ground to feel entitled to make legislation above the needs of basic and obvious law-and-order and national and polity stability or functioning and serving it's taxpayers/citizens/voters? That is, on grounds does it claim the mandate or right to pass governmental judgement on social moral issues, and from what source do these judgements and their mandates arise from?

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

What is "practical conservatism," and from whence does it derive any source of a claim to moral or ethical higher ground to feel entitled to make legislation above the needs of basic and obvious law-and-order and national and polity stability or functioning and serving it's taxpayers/citizens/voters? That is, on grounds does it claim the mandate or right to pass governmental judgement on social moral issues, and from what source do these judgements and their mandates arise from?

That's the term I use for the sum of my own believes as I pick positions from a large variety of ideologies.

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3 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

That's the term I use for the sum of my own believes as I pick positions from a large variety of ideologies.

But a smorgasbord morality is one thing for a person to have - but if one believes it should be applied to governance, legislation, and social policy in a nation, you have the foundations of a Mputo, Gadaffi, Niyazov, or Kim Family regime, I'm afraid to say...

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11 minutes ago, Patine said:

What is "practical conservatism," and from whence does it derive any source of a claim to moral or ethical higher ground to feel entitled to make legislation above the needs of basic and obvious law-and-order and national and polity stability or functioning and serving it's taxpayers/citizens/voters? That is, on grounds does it claim the mandate or right to pass governmental judgement on social moral issues, and from what source do these judgements and their mandates arise from?

I'd probably describe my ideology "Practical Progressivism" or "Common Sense Progressivism"

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1 hour ago, admin_270 said:

Because the political environment is usually more hostile to conservatives at universities.

Post military, I went back to school in 2010 to finish my undergrad (I'd dropped out as a 18 year old freshman because I was an idiot who couldn't bother to show up to most classes).

My main professor was about as Liberal as they come.  I was an Iraq war Veteran.  In a communications class, he tried to talk about freedom of speech as it relates to filming the caskets of dead soldiers (something that was largely forbidden during President Bush's term, but became legal under President Obama).

I responded that I would not appreciate someone parading my corpse to make their political point -- especially one that I strongly disagreed with.

Not only was I not failed or some other ridiculous thing -- but he hired me as his research assistant, tutor, and agreed that thanks to my military experience I shouldn't be required to do an otherwise mandated internship.  He wrote my recommendation letter to grad school and was one of my recommendations for my first major job after college (making more than he did as a professor).  One year after graduation, he invited me to come back to be that graduating class' commencement speaker.

There are of course some number of Professors so liberal that they might punish someone who espouses conservative points of view.  But I saw absolutely nothing to indicate that the percentage of these professors is at all significant.  As long as you could make your point eloquently, respectfully, and with facts they encouraged open discussion.

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4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I'd probably describe my ideology "Practical Progressivism" or "Common Sense Progressivism"

But, because Conservatism, by nature of what they believe, has to have a pedigree or tradition of moral authority, but Progressivism is base advancement and innovation, it doesn't work as well for him as it does for you.

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16 minutes ago, Patine said:

But a smorgasbord morality is one thing for a person to have - but if one believes it should be applied to governance, legislation, and social policy in a nation, you have the foundations of a Mputo, Gadaffi, Niyazov, or Kim Family regime, I'm afraid to say...

Well, all politicians have theoretically their believes on which they campaign. I would campaign on my platform no different to others who have their or in fact a platform. 

7 minutes ago, Patine said:

But, because Conservatism, by nature of what they believe, has to have a pedigree or tradition of moral authority, but Progressivism is base advancement and innovation, it doesn't work as well for him as it does for you.

I hold my believes because I think all people would be better off, if governed by the ideas I support. Most people believe in their own ideology. One could argue it's believing in moral authority if arguing Nazism or Facism are bad. In that case I am proud to claim moral authority and therefore I don't think it's bad concept under all circumstances. We believe in our ideas because we think they are the best.

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54 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

There are of course some number of Professors so liberal that they might punish someone who espouses conservative points of view.  But I saw absolutely nothing to indicate that the percentage of these professors is at all significant.  As long as you could make your point eloquently, respectfully, and with facts they encouraged open discussion.

I'm not talking about Professors punishing people who disagree with them, although there is that.

I'm talking about an overall political climate that tends to be hostile towards conservatives.

Sounds like your Prof bud was a true liberal.

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