Reagan04 515 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 @Actinguy And as far as Governors goes, his vociferous allies in the states are much fewer and much farther in between locally then they are in Washington. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 366 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 3 hours ago, Wiw said: Let's be honest - what's stopping him tearing up the Constitution anyway? 3 hours ago, Sunnymentoaddict said: Exactly. The emoluments clause is virtually non-existent. Let his own campaign manager and lawyer admitting to federal crimes they've committed on his behalf. Or his attempt to redirect Congressional appropriated funds to build a wall. The man is a damn joke to conservatism. No damn conservative should look at him and approve what he is doing unless they are as bankrupt as one of Trump's casinos. 22 minutes ago, Actinguy said: What does the house do to stop him? They already impeached him, didn’t matter. Even the Supreme Court doesn’t matter much if Trump and the Senate just keep doing whatever they want anyway. I really think you guys are actually confusing him for his buddy over in Russia, and thinking he could really such a thing off. To become a dictator like that in a nation like the United States would require immense popular appeal, the great majority of the apparati of power solidly behind him, and the media at his beck and call as a propaganda engine, and a cunning, insidious, and Machiavellian mind. He's sorely lacking in all of those. He's the wrong man for THAT hypothetical job. To think he could fill that role is a joke (as in one of those gallows humour jokes, like Gadaffi unifying Africa into a new Superpower kind of joke). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Actinguy 679 Posted July 31 Author Report Share Posted July 31 You all have way more faith in the Trump party than I do. If the party was going to turn against him, they already would have done so — especially if they truly believe he’ll be routed in 95 days. Our only power to stop the President is impeachment or voting him out. He already made impeachment not matter. You think he won’t do anything he can to make an election not matter? Likewise, the tiiiiny bit of resistance we’ve seen to Trump’s most extreme proposals is because the Republican politicians don’t want to be voted out in the next election. But if they can just not HAVE an election... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 366 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 3 minutes ago, Actinguy said: You all have way more faith in the Trump party than I do. If the party was going to turn against him, they already would have done so — especially if they truly believe he’ll be routed in 95 days. Our only power to stop the President is impeachment or voting him out. He already made impeachment not matter. You think he won’t do anything he can to make an election not matter? Likewise, the tiiiiny bit of resistance we’ve seen to Trump’s most extreme proposals is because the Republican politicians don’t want to be voted out in the next election. But if they can just not HAVE an election... Well, than you better go tell the King the sky is falling, Chicken Little - and watch out for Fox Loxy at the river - the Gingerbread Man, who is reported missing, was last seen there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiw 52 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 No, I agree with him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 366 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 Just now, Wiw said: No, I agree with him. And one of the big things that screws you and @Actinguy's credibility here is that this is actually Donald Trump. I mean yes, he is egotistical, loudmouthed, and panders to racists, but he's also semi-incoherent, has no consistent agenda, is completely incompetent at his job as is, has all the subtle, manipulative, cunning, and Machiavellian qualities of a stomping bull in the early stages of Mad Cow, he's alienated most people of power (even "the Party of Trump," seems to mostly support him - those members who still do - based on self-serving pragmatism, and not true loyalty in any sense of the word, and would almost certainly not be willing to take the politically suicidal plunge your describing with him), and he's most a vapid, vitriolic showman in the twilight of his career. The thought of him becoming a full-out dictator of a nation like the U.S. is laughable - in a gallows humour way I'd mentioned above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sunnymentoaddict 35 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 20 minutes ago, Patine said: I really think you guys are actually confusing him for his buddy over in Russia, and thinking he could really such a thing off. To become a dictator like that in a nation like the United States would require immense popular appeal, the great majority of the apparati of power solidly behind him, and the media at his beck and call as a propaganda engine, and a cunning, insidious, and Machiavellian mind. He's sorely lacking in all of those. He's the wrong man for THAT hypothetical job. To think he could fill that role is a joke (as in one of those gallows humour jokes, like Gadaffi unifying Africa into a new Superpower kind of joke). Good thing he didn't appoint over 200 federal judges(some of whom are not qualified), or has an entire right wing news network where he calls in all the time on. Good thing because, I was honestly worried he was an authoritarian in the making. Common mistake. Trump doesn't need popular support to be a dictator. Hell most dictators couldn't win 50% of the vote, they just need the law on their side to allow them to hold onto that position. And hearing a sitting President toying with that idea shouldn't be dismissed as "ah its nothing." Because, we spent all of 2016 saying, "Ah its nothing" in regards to Trump. Maybe its time to treat his actions seriously. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiw 52 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 Exactly my thoughts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 366 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 15 minutes ago, Sunnymentoaddict said: Good thing he didn't appoint over 200 federal judges(some of whom are not qualified), or has an entire right wing news network where he calls in all the time on. Good thing because, I was honestly worried he was an authoritarian in the making. Common mistake. Trump doesn't need popular support to be a dictator. Hell most dictators couldn't win 50% of the vote, they just need the law on their side to allow them to hold onto that position. And hearing a sitting President toying with that idea shouldn't be dismissed as "ah its nothing." Because, we spent all of 2016 saying, "Ah its nothing" in regards to Trump. Maybe its time to treat his actions seriously. Oh, you mean the network that he constantly spars with and has publicly disavowed. And all U.S. Presidents are guilty of the crime and betrayal of choosing judges for ideological reasons and on party spoils and patronage appointments - a sign of tyranny most Presidents have been guilty of. And, again, election dates are not a Presidential power to exercise - they are a Congressional authority, period. And Trump neither commands the House, nor a Filibuster-proof Senate. And, again, I don't think the "loyalty," (although that very much seems to be the wrong word, as I said above, except for a few complete dupes like Cotton) of the majority of Congressional Republicans would not hold such a politically suicidal gamble were laid before them - American politicians have not shown the appetite for such immense and overt risks of that sort in their own country - risks often taken by Third World politicians - but not on their home turf since the 1860's, really. Plus, a lot of Republican Governors are about as alienated from Trump as Senators like Romney and Lee. So, I'm not dismissing it as, "ah, it's nothing," - I've done a cursory analysis of the situation, and it seems your fears are a bit overblown. And acting out of fear is a very dangerous and destructive to do - one should maintain to keep a level head and a clear vision on things. That was the core message of FDR's famous quote on fear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePotatoWalrus 244 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 A man who thinks he is winning an election wouldn't call off an election. Trump's not a fascist, but this is still a bad look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wolves 29 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 18 hours ago, Actinguy said: What does the house do to stop him? They already impeached him, didn’t matter. Even the Supreme Court doesn’t matter much if Trump and the Senate just keep doing whatever they want anyway. You are very blind if you think the house wanted Trump to be removed. They just wanted him impeached, Biden vs Pence would have been a death sentence for them, Pelosi being president even more so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Actinguy 679 Posted July 31 Author Report Share Posted July 31 34 minutes ago, wolves said: You are very blind if you think the house wanted Trump to be removed. They just wanted him impeached, Biden vs Pence would have been a death sentence for them, Pelosi being president even more so. I'm not sure what one had to do with the other. The House's only power in this regard was to impeach and they delivered on that. They had no say in the rest of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wolves 29 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 1 minute ago, Actinguy said: I'm not sure what one had to do with the other. The House's only power in this regard was to impeach and they delivered on that. They had no say in the rest of it. They, like the GOP when impeaching Clinton, knew that it wouldn't lead to anything but it was just simple political positioning for an upcoming election. The house is irrelevant but the Senate wont let Trump postpone the election. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Actinguy 679 Posted July 31 Author Report Share Posted July 31 1 minute ago, wolves said: They, like the GOP when impeaching Clinton, knew that it wouldn't lead to anything but it was just simple political positioning for an upcoming election. The house is irrelevant but the Senate wont let Trump postpone the election. What did you want the House to do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pilight 184 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 Today, the White House condemned Hong Kong delaying their elections saying it "undermines the democratic processes and freedoms" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 366 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 1 hour ago, Actinguy said: What did you want the House to do? In a REAL Republic, every citizen, up to and including the national chief executive, could have local law-enforcement walk into their office with a warrant on reasonable suspicion of crimes, clap them in irons, throw them in jail, and try them like any other citizen. But the U.S. has not ENTIRELY achieved Republichood, but still has a few lingering Monarchial/Feudal elements, including those that de facto protect their national chief executive and certain other key government officials from all criminal or civil consequences by having a process that immensely resembles an old British nobles' right to only "be tried by their peers before the House of Lords, and be utter immune and untouchable by the competences of the common courts," there is no FULL Republic, and a far cry from justice, in the United States. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wolves 29 Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 5 hours ago, Actinguy said: What did you want the House to do? position whoever would face Trump in 2020 to win Quote Link to post Share on other sites
servo75 30 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 On 7/30/2020 at 6:41 AM, Actinguy said: How is it that Trump barely acknowledges that Coronavirus even exists, and denounces all of the science behind it... ...And yet somehow also believes that it is so incredibly dangerous that we need to stop having Presidential elections now that he is President? Golly. I just can't figure it out. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53597975?fbclid=IwAR1mkW_8mDurG0YRgWZEoW-qlVCIqia9f0L983Qd1oh4IxzkA6VW2PLcaqQ He has denied no science here. He has/had as much uncertainty as anyone else did at the time. And as for the postponing of elections, A) he cannot do it, and don't you see he's trolling you on this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reagan04 515 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, servo75 said: don't you see he's trolling you on this? Lmao dude if Obama had said this you'd be hanging from the rafters pulling your hair out like a screaming mimi. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billay 92 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 This was nothing more than a political move to distract from the numbers regarding GDP and the country once again fell for his bullshit hook, line, and sinker. Those numbers should have represented the end of his campaign yet here we are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
servo75 30 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 3 hours ago, Reagan04 said: Lmao dude if Obama had said this you'd be hanging from the rafters pulling your hair out like a screaming mimi. Yes because he'd be serious and that IS something that Obama would try to do, it matches his personality and the "pen and a phone" way he governed. Trump says stuff like this all the time to poke people and play with their minds. The difference between Trump's supporters and enemies is that the former take him seriously but not literally, the latter take him literally but not seriously. He's playing 4D chess and living rent-free inside your head. No one is putting off elections. Relax. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wiw 52 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 2 hours ago, servo75 said: He's playing 4D chess and living rent-free inside your head. You got that right! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Actinguy 679 Posted August 3 Author Report Share Posted August 3 4 hours ago, billay said: This was nothing more than a political move to distract from the numbers regarding GDP and the country once again fell for his bullshit hook, line, and sinker. Those numbers should have represented the end of his campaign yet here we are. I mean, I’ve heard this before but... A) Donald Trump isn’t that smart. He just isn’t. He is endlessly shooting himself in the foot, every single day. He is not capable of strategy, because strategy requires delayed gratification. B: “Donald Trump wants to ruin the constitution, let’s hope the Senators and Supreme Court can somehow stop him” is a horrible storyline heading into a Presidential election. WAY worse than an economic story he could have blamed on Democrats. C) It didn’t even work. First of all, here we are, talking about the economic report. But even for those who aren’t — they still know how their own lives have been impacted economically. You can distract a voter from reading a report...but you can’t distract them from their own economic situation. Let him live in our heads. Let us never forget how completely unacceptable every single day of his presidency has been. Let it be our consuming thought. Let us beg for the sweet, sweet release of voting him out of office. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conservative Elector 2 258 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Actinguy said: He is endlessly shooting himself in the foot, every single day. Yeah, like wishing someone ''well'' for no apparent reason. He could have said ''I don't care about this person, but I hope she'll get a just punishment." It's as simple as that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reagan04 515 Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 5 hours ago, servo75 said: Yes because he'd be serious and that IS something that Obama would try to do, it matches his personality and the "pen and a phone" way he governed. Trump says stuff like this all the time to poke people and play with their minds. The difference between Trump's supporters and enemies is that the former take him seriously but not literally, the latter take him literally but not seriously. He's playing 4D chess and living rent-free inside your head. No one is putting off elections. Relax. You act as though Trump has been just as bad if not worse by governing with a pen and a phone. I mean the man literally attempted to move the budgetary power of appropriation from Congress to the Presidency! I just can’t see how you can’t see Trump is MORE serious about growing the power of the Presidency and the government than Obama every was and how you STILL subscribe to this idea that he is capable of this “4D chess” that his supporters claim he is using when clearly he’s just a scared animal cornered and trying to save himself from impending annihilation. I won’t relax when Liberty is threatened even when the President is of my party, I’ll fight like hell to preserve it and so should you. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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