How Anti-Racist Are You Poll

[vcczar]

This poll is based off the book I finished this week entitled How To Be An Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi

vcczar @Reagan04 @Actinguy @Patine @Conservative Elector 2 @TheMiddlePolitical @WVProgressive @SilentLiberty @pilight @admin_270 @Hestia11 @Herbert Hoover @mlcorcoran @Leuser @upandaway @jvikings1 @Rodja @Edouard @jnewt @Nentomat @Kingthero @Sunnymentoaddict @RFK/JFKfan @Mr.Blood @Zenobiyl @Wiw @MBDemSoc @ThePotatoWalrus @Alxeu @Allyn @Cenzonico @CentristGuy @Ishan @billay @wolves @RI Democrat @lizarraba @lizphairphreak @TheLiberalKitten @MysteryKnight @avatarmushi @servo75

[ThePotatoWalrus]

Add option for 4 that says we already have achieved equality 

[servo75]

I'm not responding to this poll. "How anti-racist are you?" Seriously? The presumption of the title is bad enough. I am not racist and I'm not going to stoop to taking some quiz to prove it. There is NO systemic or "institutional" racism in this country. Full stop. There hasn't been since 1870 in most parts of the country, and at least since 1965 in the South. I'm sick and tired of people taking every individual isolated case and using it as an excuse for mass protests, riots, taking down statues, making everyone bend their knee and swear that "they're not racist."

Racism isn't born, it's taught. And to all those white people who put BLM stickers on their cars and logos on their profile pics, SHAME ON YOU! By even giving in to this narrative, you're not helping racial harmony, you're actually harming it. If you want a sore to heal, stop picking at it. If you want to solve racism, then I agree with Morgan Freeman  - STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!

[SilentLiberty]

To love capitalism is to (end up) love(ing) racism......

Okay...

[Patine]

3 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Add option for 4 that says we already have achieved equality 

We'll wait for your LSD trip to end, and you can try again when you crash to reality from La-La Land...

[SilentLiberty]

Just now, Patine said:

We'll wait for your LSD trip to end, and you can try again when you crash to reality from La-La Land...

Not how drugs work

[Patine]

1 minute ago, servo75 said:

I'm not responding to this poll. "How racist are you?" Seriously? The presumption of the title is bad enough. There is NO systemic or "institutional" racism in this country. Full stop. There hasn't been since 1870 in most parts of the country, and at least since 1965 in the South. I'm sick and tired of people taking every individual isolated case and using it as an excuse for mass protests, riots, taking down statues, making everyone bend their knee and swear that "they're not racist."

Racism isn't born, it's taught.

Although I agree that racism in the modern U.S. is overblown for political purposes by many, and terminology has out of way out of whack, and your last, isolated sentenced is quite true, you phrasing the rest of your statement in absolutes - and very out-of-touch absolutes - makes you about as distorted in your viewpoints as some Civil Rights activist who claims "nothing has improved at all for marginalized people since the '50's, and Donald Trump is an absolute Fascist dictator." Both your statement, and the one I've stated (which paraphrases what a few people I've seen on the internet actually say) are wildly in defiance of reality - which is somewhere in the middle...

[servo75]

6 minutes ago, Patine said:

Although I agree that racism in the modern U.S. is overblown for political purposes by many, and terminology has out of way out of whack, and your last, isolated sentenced is quite true, you phrasing the rest of your statement in absolutes - and very out-of-touch absolutes - makes you about as distorted in your viewpoints as some Civil Rights activist who claims "nothing has improved at all for marginalized people since the '50's, and Donald Trump is an absolute Fascist dictator." Both your statement, and the one I've stated (which paraphrases what a few people I've seen on the internet actually say) are wildly in defiance of reality - which is somewhere in the middle...

If I'm wrong about that statement, there's a very easy way to prove me wrong. All you have to do is show me an official law or policy in any major United States jurisdiction (i.e. an "institution") that has a disproportionate effect of people based on their race, not as some side effect stemming from cultural differences, but as it's sole and intended purpose. For example, a law saying that blacks must sit at the back of city buses. When you say "systemic" you're talking about system-wide, ingrained into our very society, and you said yourself that racism in the modern U.S. is overblown. When you say "institutional" show me the institution. Sorry if you feel I'm talking in absolutes - I only do that when discussing facts. I've been extra careful, in recent posts, that if something is my opinion, and I'm not sure, that I explicitly state so. But when I have the facts on my side, I will speak in more absolute terms. If I say, "objects on Earth, when dropped, always fall," yes that's talking in absolutes. Because gravity is a fact. So are the 13th-15th Amendments, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. So if I'm wrong, show me a law that violates one of those laws, one with disparate effect as it's stated intended purpose and I'll take it back.

[vcczar]

24 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Add option for 4 that says we already have achieved equality 

We have inequity, which produces inequality. 

[vcczar]

22 minutes ago, servo75 said:

I'm not responding to this poll. "How anti-racist are you?" Seriously? The presumption of the title is bad enough. I am not racist and I'm not going to stoop to taking some quiz to prove it. There is NO systemic or "institutional" racism in this country. Full stop. There hasn't been since 1870 in most parts of the country, and at least since 1965 in the South. I'm sick and tired of people taking every individual isolated case and using it as an excuse for mass protests, riots, taking down statues, making everyone bend their knee and swear that "they're not racist."

Racism isn't born, it's taught. And to all those white people who put BLM stickers on their cars and logos on their profile pics, SHAME ON YOU! By even giving in to this narrative, you're not helping racial harmony, you're actually harming it. If you want a sore to heal, stop picking at it. If you want to solve racism, then I agree with Morgan Freeman  - STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!

Hilarious. I actually predicted you’d do this. Showing your colors. 

[Actinguy]

There were several typos in this poll that made it difficult to understand the questions.

[vcczar]

@servo75 @ThePotatoWalrus @SilentLiberty Kendi would probably say y’all are racist if you’re too uncomfortable to take this poll or if it makes you angry.

[Patine]

22 minutes ago, servo75 said:

If I'm wrong about that statement, there's a very easy way to prove me wrong. All you have to do is show me an official law or policy in any major United States jurisdiction (i.e. an "institution") that has a disproportionate effect of people based on their race, not as some side effect stemming from cultural differences, but as it's sole and intended purpose. For example, a law saying that blacks must sit at the back of city buses. When you say "systemic" you're talking about system-wide, ingrained into our very society, and you said yourself that racism in the modern U.S. is overblown. When you say "institutional" show me the institution. Sorry if you feel I'm talking in absolutes - I only do that when discussing facts. I've been extra careful, in recent posts, that if something is my opinion, and I'm not sure, that I explicitly state so. But when I have the facts on my side, I will speak in more absolute terms. If I say, "objects on Earth, when dropped, always fall," yes that's talking in absolutes. Because gravity is a fact. So are the 13th-15th Amendments, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. So if I'm wrong, show me a law that violates one of those laws, one with disparate effect as it's stated intended purpose and I'll take it back.

Are you aware of the difference, especially regarding societies and the application of laws, judiciary action, and governance, of the terms "de jure," and "de facto?"

[vcczar]

38 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

There were several typos in this poll that made it difficult to understand the questions.

Do you remember where they are off hand? I had to type this quickly because I had to leave. 

[Actinguy]

4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Do you remember where they are off hand? I had to type this quickly because I had to leave. 

I didn't read the full list after hitting a wall with the first couple:

• Say one is "not racist" signifies neutrality: "I am not a racist, but neither am I aggressively against racism."
  The opposite of "racist" is isn't "not racist." It is "anti-racist."
• The opposite of "racist" is isn't "not racist." It is "anti-racist."

[vcczar]

3 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I didn't read the full list after hitting a wall with the first couple:

• Say one is "not racist" signifies neutrality: "I am not a racist, but neither am I aggressively against racism."
  The opposite of "racist" is isn't "not racist." It is "anti-racist."
• The opposite of "racist" is isn't "not racist." It is "anti-racist."

Thanks, I finished these. The 2nd mistake was because I had these typed in my notes but had to type over them to phrase them for this poll. I'll fix the language elsewhere if other mistakes are caught by other people. 

[CPE]

Just a few of my thoughts on the current racial tension in the States right now :

1.  It feels as if all the racial healing that occurred over the decades following desegregation and the Civil Rights Act has been completely destroyed.  I told some of my family several weeks back that it feels as if we are in the 60's again with the amount of tension and antagonism we are seeing today.

2.  The white community needs to stay out of the black communities issues.  It strikes me as rather ironic when I see a BLM protest full of young white people with not a single black person in sight.  It is rather hypocritical; if the black community in the States has something to say regarding their issues, they need to be able to speak for themselves.

3.  This is the biggest thing I hate about the States to be honest : "equality" is an over-sensationalized term throw around without any meaning by the media and "woke" college students.  When the Caribbean nations were going through their respective decolonization processes, there were specific goals in mind ie. home-rule, self-government, independence, etc.  Even during the 60's, there were specific goals that the black community in America had ie. desegregation of the buses, schools, etc.  Nowadays, there are no such goals.  The George Floyd incident provided an opportunity for police reform, yet nothing has resulted other than the destruction of cities that will take decades to restore.  "Equality" is a vague term and needs to be defined.  I think that the black community is the States needs to speak up and say in unison what they would like to see regarding the future, and let everyone goal towards that.  Right now, all I am hearing about is "equality", yet no one seems to know what "equality" means.

[vcczar]

7 minutes ago, CPE said:

3.  This is the biggest thing I hate about the States to be honest : "equality" is an over-sensationalized term throw around without any meaning by the media and "woke" college students.  When the Caribbean nations were going through their respective decolonization processes, there were specific goals in mind ie. home-rule, self-government, independence, etc.  Even during the 60's, there were specific goals that the black community in America had ie. desegregation of the buses, schools, etc.  Nowadays, there are no such goals.  The George Floyd incident provided an opportunity for police reform, yet nothing has resulted other than the destruction of cities that will take decades to restore.  "Equality" is a vague term and needs to be defined.  I think that the black community is the States needs to speak up and say in unison what they would like to see regarding the future, and let everyone goal towards that.  Right now, all I am hearing about is "equality", yet no one seems to know what "equality" means.

If you read what I wrote, this book is more about inequity than inequality. Part 2 of the poll is what he thinks needs to be done to rectify this. 

"Destruction of the cities"? You don't live in the US do you? This sounds over-romanticized. There's some smashed up windows caused by looters but not a single city has been destroyed.

On another note, I've been to a few BLM protests in Philadelphia. They've probably been about 60% Black protesters and 40% White protesters. 

 

[Patine]

16 minutes ago, CPE said:

Just a few of my thoughts on the current racial tension in the States right now :

1.  It feels as if all the racial healing that occurred over the decades following desegregation and the Civil Rights Act has been completely destroyed.  I told some of my family several weeks back that it feels as if we are in the 60's again with the amount of tension and antagonism we are seeing today.

2.  The white community needs to stay out of the black communities issues.  It strikes me as rather ironic when I see a BLM protest full of young white people with not a single black person in sight.  It is rather hypocritical; if the black community in the States has something to say regarding their issues, they need to be able to speak for themselves.

3.  This is the biggest thing I hate about the States to be honest : "equality" is an over-sensationalized term throw around without any meaning by the media and "woke" college students.  When the Caribbean nations were going through their respective decolonization processes, there were specific goals in mind ie. home-rule, self-government, independence, etc.  Even during the 60's, there were specific goals that the black community in America had ie. desegregation of the buses, schools, etc.  Nowadays, there are no such goals.  The George Floyd incident provided an opportunity for police reform, yet nothing has resulted other than the destruction of cities that will take decades to restore.  "Equality" is a vague term and needs to be defined.  I think that the black community is the States needs to speak up and say in unison what they would like to see regarding the future, and let everyone goal towards that.  Right now, all I am hearing about is "equality", yet no one seems to know what "equality" means.

 

5 minutes ago, vcczar said:

If you read what I wrote, this book is more about inequity than inequality. Part 2 of the poll is what he thinks needs to be done to rectify this. 

"Destruction of the cities"? You don't live in the US do you? This sounds over-romanticized. There's some smashed up windows caused by looters but not a single city has been destroyed.

On another note, I've been to a few BLM protests in Philadelphia. They've probably been about 60% Black protesters and 40% White protesters. 

 

To my knowledge (and I'm sure @vcczar and @pilight know more accurately) no U.S. cities have been deliberately, completely, and violently "destroyed," since "Sherman's March to the Sea."

[CPE]

23 minutes ago, vcczar said:

If you read what I wrote, this book is more about inequity than inequality. Part 2 of the poll is what he thinks needs to be done to rectify this. 

"Destruction of the cities"? You don't live in the US do you? This sounds over-romanticized. There's some smashed up windows caused by looters but not a single city has been destroyed.

On another note, I've been to a few BLM protests in Philadelphia. They've probably been about 60% Black protesters and 40% White protesters. 

Was not responding to anything you wrote in particular, was offering more of my own personal thoughts on the situation surrounding all of the race politics in the States right now.  

I have had no affiliation with the US for a while now, but I still have family that lives over there.  As far as I know, even much of the commercial store frontage in Palm Beach County was destroyed and vandalized as a result of the riots.  Do not take offense at this, but put yourself in the shoes of a business owner in an area that has been affected by all of this tension : would you ever inject your own personal capital/stick your neck out on the line in these areas ever again if your business had been destroyed as a result of all of this?  It is easy to take for granted how much these issues rest in the mind of business owners, do you think that all of the Walmarts and Targets that were looted/burned in Minneapolis will ever rebuild?  Say goodbye to jobs created from every business that closes down, which takes food directly out of peoples mouth.  Individually, it may not be much but when it starts happening en masse, that's where the problems start to really hit home.

Not familiar with the book in particular, but define inequity in what sense?  Inequity in earnings, wealth, etc are all possible things to discuss.

24 minutes ago, Patine said:

To my knowledge (and I'm sure @vcczar and @pilight know more accurately) no U.S. cities have been deliberately, completely, and violently "destroyed," since "Sherman's March to the Sea."

Obviously not, but there will be lasting effects from these riots.  When business owners leave, and the money stops coming in, that is when things will truly start getting rough.

[Patine]

3 minutes ago, CPE said:

Was not responding to anything you wrote in particular, was offering more of my own personal thoughts on the situation surrounding all of the race politics in the States right now.  

I have had no affiliation with the US for a while now, but I still have family that lives over there.  As far as I know, even much of the commercial store frontage in Palm Beach County was destroyed and vandalized as a result of the riots.  Do not take offense at this, but put yourself in the shoes of a business owner in an area that has been affected by all of this tension : would you ever inject your own personal capital/stick your neck out on the line in these areas ever again if your business had been destroyed as a result of all of this?  It is easy to take for granted how much these issues rest in the mind of business owners, do you think that all of the Walmarts and Targets that were looted/burned in Minneapolis will ever rebuild?  Say goodbye to jobs created from every business that closes down, which takes food directly out of peoples mouth.  Individually, it may not be much but when it starts happening en masse, that's where the problems start to really hit home.

Not familiar with the book in particular, but define inequity in what sense?  Inequity in earnings, wealth, etc are all possible things to discuss.

Obviously not, but there will be lasting effects from these riots.  When business owners leave, and the money stops coming in, that is when things will truly start getting rough.

I don't personally live in the United States, either, and have only visited once - 1998. But American media - including what passes for "news," down there, has an immense ubiquity and penetration across the whole bandwidth of what we're constantly exposed to North of the 49th. So far, though, the level of violence, sharp, unreconcilable division, political stalemate, and voter stupidity, as well as the most extreme aspects of policy on both wings of the spectrum, haven't taken that strong of a hold up - fortunately.

[CPE]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

I don't personally live in the United States, either, and have only visited once - 1998. But American media - including what passes for "news," down there, has an immense ubiquity and penetration across the whole bandwidth of what we're constantly exposed to North of the 49th.

I was in the process of moving there years ago, but it didn't work out; God knows why.  Sometimes, I look at all what goes on over there and am pretty happy that it did not work out lol.

I visit all the time when I get tired of living on a rock; lovely country.  One of these days it is my intent to ride through all 50 States (I have been on most of the east coast ones, need to get out west now) and do a mega-tour really.  Love Florida personally (although everyone in the Caribbean has a relative or two living in Palm Beach, Miami, or Ft. Lauderdale lol).

It has always amazed me how no matter where you are in the world, you can find American news being discussed.  I have always compared the US to the Roman Empire in terms of how far its influence stretches (difference in time period notwithstanding).

[Patine]

5 minutes ago, CPE said:

I have always compared the US to the Roman Empire in terms of how far its influence stretches (difference in time period notwithstanding).

The academic collection, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire," is also frighteningly relevant, as the United States has reached the point dealt with in that areas, and in studies of other great past empires, where it is observedly in deep decline, but at the level of cultural decay and socio-political division and deterioration, citizens lacking true motive initiative to enact true and needed change, despite growing untenability of the situation, and commonly and frequently ignores it's founding principals and ideals, but is still militarily and economically unchallengeable externally - a very specific point called out in that history treatise.

[vcczar]

14 minutes ago, CPE said:

Was not responding to anything you wrote in particular, was offering more of my own personal thoughts on the situation surrounding all of the race politics in the States right now.  

I have had no affiliation with the US for a while now, but I still have family that lives over there.  As far as I know, even much of the commercial store frontage in Palm Beach County was destroyed and vandalized as a result of the riots.  Do not take offense at this, but put yourself in the shoes of a business owner in an area that has been affected by all of this tension : would you ever inject your own personal capital/stick your neck out on the line in these areas ever again if your business had been destroyed as a result of all of this?  It is easy to take for granted how much these issues rest in the mind of business owners, do you think that all of the Walmarts and Targets that were looted/burned in Minneapolis will ever rebuild?  Say goodbye to jobs created from every business that closes down, which takes food directly out of peoples mouth.  Individually, it may not be much but when it starts happening en masse, that's where the problems start to really hit home.

Not familiar with the book in particular, but define inequity in what sense?  Inequity in earnings, wealth, etc are all possible things to discuss.

Obviously not, but there will be lasting effects from these riots.  When business owners leave, and the money stops coming in, that is when things will truly start getting rough.

Inequity is a lack of fairness and justice that hinders approximate equality. There’s actually a lot of things that create this inequity, almost all stemming from systems, policies, ideas, and mentalities that have existed for several generations. I think social media has played a role in really projecting all of this. Social media combined with an Era of Populism really intensifies this. It needs to be resolved, not just for blacks but from all those suffering inequities. 

[CPE]

29 minutes ago, Patine said:

The academic collection, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire," is also frighteningly relevant, as the United States has reached the point dealt with in that areas, and in studies of other great past empires, where it is observedly in deep decline, but at the level of cultural decay and socio-political division and deterioration, citizens lacking true motive initiative to enact true and needed change, despite growing untenability of the situation, and commonly and frequently ignores it's founding principals and ideals, but is still militarily and economically unchallengeable externally - a very specific point called out in that history treatise.

I thought that I was the only one who saw so many parallels lol.  It truly does seem that the United States is splitting between "East" and "West" in the sense that it seems that the two sides of the political spectrum have irreconcilable visions of what America should be.  I always noticed in the past that no matter what, whether you were a D or R, you were always considered an American first and foremost.  Nowadays, it seems that there is a lacking sense of cohesion and national pride, and that your political affiliation is somehow more important than your nationality.

I have spent time thinking about a post-America world before, it would be only be natural when comparing other nations documented in the written records of human history; every empire eventually falls.  Think that even during the Victorian Era, Great Britain used to be considered the premier world power; it wasn't until the 1900s that the United States rose to the heights where it currently exists today.  The sun eventually did end up setting on the British Empire, and America rose up in its place.  I sometimes think about who will rise up in America's stead when the eventual fall occurs.

34 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Inequity is a lack of fairness and justice that hinders approximate equality. There’s actually a lot of things that create this inequity, almost all stemming from systems, policies, ideas, and mentalities that have existed for several generations. I think social media has played a role in really projecting all of this. Social media combined with an Era of Populism really intensifies this. It needs to be resolved, not just for blacks but from all those suffering inequities. 

Is an example of what you mean like why incarceration rates between the races are different in the States?