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Will Trump Drop out?


Will Trump Drop Out before the General Election?  

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  1. 1. Will Trump Drop Out before the General Election?



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Just now, vcczar said:

they'll probably have a more or less confident idea of whether or not an economy can completely recover in only 4 months

I don't think they know. Perhaps I have less of an august opinion of experts than you do. 🧐

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Well he has actually admitted he is losing. That's the genesis of this post. Lots of GOP strategisrs are really concerned about his state of mind and willingness to carry on. I've taken to calling him

Trump would be insane to drop out now, he has nothing to gain by doing so.  For better or worse, he will be the Republican candidate for the 2020 United States Presidential election.  I cannot even im

That's not easy to do. Biden has at least stated an opposition to defunding the police, opposition to looting, and opposition to tearing down statues that aren't of Confederates. Trump had to have his

1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

I don't think they know. Perhaps I have less of an august opinion of experts than you do. 🧐

I'm more inclined to believe someone that's spent their lives working with, fascinated with, and studying economic systems and economic simulations than people that don't put that kind of precision into it. It's sort of like not have an august opinion of experience or knowledgable car mechanics, musicians, real estate developers, computer programmers, etc. Economics is a lot more complex and sometimes more abstract, which allows for a greater margin of error. It can't be controlled as well and can appear to be as impossible to predict as the weather. 

Here's another link that was just posted; https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-unemployment-rate-is-falling-but-more-people-are-losing-their-jobs-permanently/

According to this:

  • The reports capture only the situation to mid-June, so pre-upsurge in cases. 
  • Permanent layoffs are still growing, even if unemployment is falling slightly. 
  • It seems like Leisure and Hospitality jobs are the ones that are coming back
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6 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Economics is a lot more complex and sometimes more abstract, which allows for a greater margin of error. It can't be controlled as well and can appear to be as impossible to predict as the weather.

Yes, right. Add in completely unprecedented situation. I wouldn't ignore what they're saying, but all the same wouldn't base much on their long-term forecasts re this.

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On 6/30/2020 at 1:50 PM, admin_270 said:

Ya, that's what I was trying to convey with all the one's.

Was speaking more in the future tense, suggesting if he would ever run again.  I find no way for him to enthuse the GOP base given his public positions lately.

 

On 6/30/2020 at 2:14 PM, vcczar said:

@CPE

I wouldn't say he was the worst, but he was probably the least exciting candidate to run for office since....John Kerry. Romney was neither exciting nor had he an exciting platform or an exciting campaign. I think a worse candidate would have been Newt Gingrich and Michelle Bachmann. Gingrich would have been a infinitely smarter version of Trump, but I also think, because he'd be more competent, his impeachable offenses, once discovered, would be far worse. Gingrich is basically the Trump pre-cursor, a chaotic polemecist with extremely controversial behavior. Bachmann can't seperate Church from State, and she's even less intelligent than Trump. I think either of them would have led to an Obama 2012 landslide victory. Trump would have been landslided defeated in 2012 had he run then. 2016 was just the perfect time for Trump, mostly because he was facing Hillary Clinton, a long-term foe of conservatives since the 1990s. 

I''d say Romney was a bad candidate. I wouldn't say he's one of the worst. He didn't drive people away, but he didn't win them over either. McCain was better than Romney as a candidate, but McCain had no shot following GW Bush. 

Not the worst ever for sure (in the past tense now) but he just had no charisma in my opinion.  I always referred to Andrew Scheer as the Canadian version of Mitt Romney.  He has the politician "look" and "feel", but has absolutely no charisma to convince voters at all.  I still remember when most of today's Bernie bros were Ron Paul fans lol.  What a difference a few years makes, Ron Paul used to be the "thing" back then.  That 2012 GOP field was severely lacking in all honesty though.

I think a key part in the difference between Trump and Romney's electoral fates was that Trump seems to relate to working-class voters much better (particularly blue collar ones). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVxVDDYwNvU

Do you think that we will ever see Mitt Romney in WrestleMania lol.

In reference to McCain, he just picked a historically horrible year to run is all.  Palin as his VP pick sunk any chance of that ship sailing into the White House as well.

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No and I dont think he will lose by 10%. I also dont show polls that show Biden competitive or ahead in places like MO, TX, etc.

You can argue Trump has taken his hardest punches (covid and protests) and hasnt yet thrown any punches at Biden. 

Part of the reason Biden is ahead so much is because hes pretty much remained in his basement while Trump has gotten infront of the mic and made an ass out of himself. At some point Biden will address the public and I have no doubt he'll make gaffes like he always does.

 

I still think Biden wins but it's going to be around 4%.

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38 minutes ago, billay said:

No and I dont think he will lose by 10%. I also dont show polls that show Biden competitive or ahead in places like MO, TX, etc.

You can argue Trump has taken his hardest punches (covid and protests) and hasnt yet thrown any punches at Biden. 

Part of the reason Biden is ahead so much is because hes pretty much remained in his basement while Trump has gotten infront of the mic and made an ass out of himself. At some point Biden will address the public and I have no doubt he'll make gaffes like he always does.

 

I still think Biden wins but it's going to be around 4%.

FiveThirtyEight has polls with Biden winning in both TX and MO

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This whole topic is rather absurd, I think, as is reflected in the near unanimity of the thread poll. First, Carville is entertaining, I'll give him that. But so blatantly partisan, one can't take anything he says with anything other than a few pounds of salt.

All this talk about "Trump is desperately behind, he'd better drop out now" is, I think preposterous. Say what you want, like him or not, he's not one to quit. And to think that some Republicans will turn on him by Labor Day? First there's no indication of that happening beside rumor. McConnell and company would be better served paying attention to their OWN races. The Republican establishment base in Washington has been against Trump from Day 1, but this is not reflected in his nationwide GOP popularity, and the fact that only three very weak challengers have opposed him.

Now let's get to the topic of approval rating.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/311825/presidential-job-approval-related-reelection-historically.aspx

The last two Presidents not to be re-elected, GHW Bush and Carter, had approval ratings of 37% and 34% respectively at this point during their campaigns. Trump is ranging from about 43% to 47% right now. Bush Jr. and Obama were at 49% and 46% respectively when they won huge re-elections. The worst performance for Trump right now is in the national polls, I'm seeing those range anywhere from -12% to -5%. Not good numbers to be sure. The national polls give some good idea of the trend, but ultimately they're worthless. The national polls did a decent job actually in 2016, but only very close to the election and they only predicted the popular vote. With the blue areas of the country going bluer, and the reddest areas staying about the same, it's certainly possible that as low as 40% popular vote could still mean victory. Also, this far out things are very tough. There are, the way I see it, three factors, assuming that all these polling companies are not playing tricks with the numbers after the fact, or fudging the numbers. Let's assume that's all on the up and up. Let's also assume that the questions are even and not leading in one way or the other. Lesser chance of that but we'll assume that's okay too.

1. Undersampling of Republicans and/or Republican voters refusing to participate. I don't think this is severe, but let's say 1-2% effect.

2. Polling of registered, rather than likely voters. Doesn't seem like a big deal off-hand, but there have been major differences. It's impossible to put a number on this, but polls in elections past have tended to differ by a few percentage points.

3. The biggest factor is Republicans either not responding or, having the fear of social stigma, lying to the pollster. This can be a factor mostly on phone polls but possibly on automated polls. I've actually done the math on this. And some of this is arbitrary, but if we suppose that of every 10 people who are likely or leaning toward Trump, 9 of 10 are honest with the pollster, i.e. 1 out of 10 Trump voters say Biden or undecided. That alone is a potential 4% swing. If it's fewer than 9/10 that can swing things 6% or more.

When you combine all this with the traditional 2-3% margin of error, you get a range of 7-9%. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned -4% is statistically a tie. I think Trump supporters shouldn't lose any sleep over polls within -5%. -6% to -8% is an area of concern. But until we see a particular poll where Trump is consistently behind 8% or more (possibly a cutoff of 5 to 6% after the conventions), I think there's no cause for alarm. Being consistently behind by more than 8% would and should spell worry for his campaign. But we're nowhere close to that, and his approval rating, after hitting 40% at the height of the Covid crisis, is now back to where his typical Presidency has lain, that 45-49% mark.

Even approval rating doesn't mean everything. Obama and Bush Jr. two people who I did NOT want to see re-elected at that time, had negative approval ratings (mid to upper 40s). But I learned the hard way during both seasons that even more importantly than approval is, "Okay, so would the other guy do better?" I think Americans were fed up with Obama in 2012 but they didn't see Romney as relatable or as a viable alternative. And as has already been discussed in this thread, Romney whatever you think of his recent politics, ran almost as bad a campaign in 2012 as Hillary in 2016. It would have been tough beating an incumbent Obama, but the election was in his grasp after that first debate and he took his foot off the gas pedal. Even more pronounced was 2004. Americans looked at Kerry and didn't trust him to lead us through the war on terror as much as they did Bush.

So this really is obviously going to come down to the next few months. The economy is getting back to the level where Trump enjoyed much higher poll numbers earlier in the year. He has to make the case that he's leading us through the Covid crisis, and with an economy like we have (yes it's been dampened by Covid but seems to be rebounding, in spite of the efforts of blue state governors), and at the same time put forth a bold vision for a second term and really make the case why his is better than Biden. It's been my experience that Americans will not vote someone out of office unless they believe the other guy can do a better job. At some point, Biden is going to have to make that case (which will require him to string coherent sentences together). If the economy falters and if Biden can sound articulate and leader-like, it will be very tough for Trump in November.

Bottom line: Trump supporters and campaign staff have a right to be concerned with the latest numbers. It won't be the cakewalk we thought we may have had pre-covid. But a) we're a far way off still, lots of things can still happen, b) the election hasn't officially started yet and the big guns haven't yet come out, c) the polls are notoriously unreliable especially this far out, and d) the problems with polling methodology and silent majority I outlined earlier.

But back to the original point of the thread: Are things so bad right now that Trump is just going to give up the race and the GOP base will turn on him? Not even close! But the GOP base turned on him from the very beginning anyway so what else is new? He has the overwhelming support of primary voters, and there have been no serious challengers to the nomination, unlike Ford in 1976 and Carter in 1980, both of whom lost, also Buchanan in 1992 was a minor factor. There is no serious competition within the party and the voting base is still with him. So RINO McConnell and Romney can go screw themselves. As for Carville, I suggest he keep dragging that dollar bill through the trailer park, maybe he might get some action.

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1 hour ago, billay said:

No and I dont think he will lose by 10%. I also dont show polls that show Biden competitive or ahead in places like MO, TX, etc.

You can argue Trump has taken his hardest punches (covid and protests) and hasnt yet thrown any punches at Biden. 

Part of the reason Biden is ahead so much is because hes pretty much remained in his basement while Trump has gotten infront of the mic and made an ass out of himself. At some point Biden will address the public and I have no doubt he'll make gaffes like he always does.

 

I still think Biden wins but it's going to be around 4%.

Put it this way, even with the lower approval numbers for Trump, who you're running against matters. I'd bet that if the Democrat nomination were still up in the air, and the poll were Trump vs. <Generic Democrat> it may very well be a double-digit deficit. You start putting a name to that opponent, when he becomes a real person and Americans start to ask themselves, "Okay I may not like Trump but THIS guy????" When Biden gets on a debate stage and has to start forming and stringing together coherent sentences, and starts referring to Trump as "George Bush," those numbers will go up. The man can't even tell the difference between his wife and sister. "Okay, honest mistake" you say. And that's fair. But when Trump makes an honest mistake he doesn't get that benefit of the doubt, and besides, it's not a one-off with Biden. He does this stuff again and again and again. Trump says some stupid things but ultimately I think people will care less about that and ultimately vote with their wallets. When they see just who Biden is, what an empty shell he is, and if the Republicans have the wherewithal (that is a big if) to draw the distinction between freedom and a dystopian future under socialism, and the Green New Deal, with BLM getting a cabinet position, I have faith in Americans (at least until the Boomers die out) that they will make the choice.

Ultimately though I really don't care how much of an "ass out of himself" a President makes. I don't give a damn about their personality or what they did before the Presidency, or personal foibles. I didn't care about it when Bill Clinton couldn't keep little bill in his pants, and I don't care about it now. What matters are results. One has gotten them, the other can't figure out what state he's in. As soon as Trump really opens fire during the general campaign, it's a new ball game.

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36 minutes ago, servo75 said:

Put it this way, even with the lower approval numbers for Trump, who you're running against matters. I'd bet that if the Democrat nomination were still up in the air, and the poll were Trump vs. <Generic Democrat> it may very well be a double-digit deficit. You start putting a name to that opponent, when he becomes a real person and Americans start to ask themselves, "Okay I may not like Trump but THIS guy????" When Biden gets on a debate stage and has to start forming and stringing together coherent sentences, and starts referring to Trump as "George Bush," those numbers will go up. The man can't even tell the difference between his wife and sister. "Okay, honest mistake" you say. And that's fair. But when Trump makes an honest mistake he doesn't get that benefit of the doubt, and besides, it's not a one-off with Biden. He does this stuff again and again and again. Trump says some stupid things but ultimately I think people will care less about that and ultimately vote with their wallets. When they see just who Biden is, what an empty shell he is, and if the Republicans have the wherewithal (that is a big if) to draw the distinction between freedom and a dystopian future under socialism, and the Green New Deal, with BLM getting a cabinet position, I have faith in Americans (at least until the Boomers die out) that they will make the choice.

Ultimately though I really don't care how much of an "ass out of himself" a President makes. I don't give a damn about their personality or what they did before the Presidency, or personal foibles. I didn't care about it when Bill Clinton couldn't keep little bill in his pants, and I don't care about it now. What matters are results. One has gotten them, the other can't figure out what state he's in. As soon as Trump really opens fire during the general campaign, it's a new ball game.

Man you nailed it and I was kinda hinting at that with my last post.

Also I'll say I just watched Trumps Mt. Rushmore speech. Look I dont like the guy and wont vote for him but I think tonight might have been one of his best speeches.

 

I havent looked at the polls of the whole statue thing or renaming the Washington Redskins. I will say the American left had a good damn point on things like criminal justice reform and police reform but they stepped on their dicks with the "defund police" thing. Now theres a small group that is going after Mt. Rushmore? They have taken something (George Floyd) and turned into something that is nothing about that.

What I saw tonight was Trump finding his voice and doing what he does best fighting. That paired with the econurarging economic numbers might not be enough to get him re elected but say hes able to continue those two things stated above and covid settles down a bit we are in for a much closer race than what some are forecasting in this thread.

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On 7/3/2020 at 8:31 PM, servo75 said:

So this really is obviously going to come down to the next few months

Lots of good points in this comment.

On 7/3/2020 at 8:31 PM, servo75 said:

At some point, Biden is going to have to make that case (which will require him to string coherent sentences together)

My guess is that, if this election is just about Trump, Trump will win. Biden has to become a compelling choice in his own right.

I believe Mother Theresa once said she wouldn't attend an anti-war rally, but she would attend a pro-peace one. You need a compelling candidate, not just an 'anti-' candidate.

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2 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

My guess is that, if this election is just about Trump, Trump will win. Biden has to become a compelling choice in his own right.

I disagree with this because Trump is a special instance. We haven't had a cult figure as president since Reagan or FDR. The difference is that these presidents were popular. Trump is not. 

A recent Siena poll just came out: Trump's support among independents is 33%. His support among Democrats is 2% (all time low). His support among GOP is 90 or 91% (forget which). His support among whites and people with no college education and among seniors has dropped considerably. Trump is the cause of these low numbers. They don't exist because Biden is or is not the candidate. 

Biden's compelling because he's not Trump. In an era of the Trump cult, that will be enough. It's wining right now that's for sure. In a landslide! 

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4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Biden's compelling because he's not Trump.

4 months out, I think you have a point. But my guess is this won't be enough as we get closer to the election.

But sure, you might be right - perhaps Trump is an exception to this kind of rule. We'll see.

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11 minutes ago, pilight said:

Biden can sit on his porch in Delaware until November and win with no problems.

Is this an allusion to Lincoln "sitting on his porch," while Douglas made a big travelling and speaking tour in 1860?

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Is this an allusion to Lincoln "sitting on his porch," while Douglas made a big travelling and speaking tour in 1860?

Sort of.  Of course in those days Douglas was doing the unusual thing while Lincoln campaigned as most candidates did before him.

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4 hours ago, admin_270 said:

 

My guess is that, if this election is just about Trump, Trump will win. Biden has to become a compelling choice in his own right.

I believe Mother Theresa once said she wouldn't attend an anti-war rally, but she would attend a pro-peace one. You need a compelling candidate, not just an 'anti-' candidate.

Agreed. This is what sunk Republicans in 2012. They (as in Romney) tried to run against Obama rather than on why they were the better option. It's also why so many Republicans who have tried to copy Trump have done so poorly. You can't make yourself out to be something you are not.

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5 hours ago, admin_270 said:

I believe Mother Theresa once said she wouldn't attend an anti-war rally, but she would attend a pro-peace one.

Gold!

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5 hours ago, vcczar said:

I disagree with this because Trump is a special instance. We haven't had a cult figure as president since Reagan or FDR. The difference is that these presidents were popular. Trump is not. 

A recent Siena poll just came out: Trump's support among independents is 33%. His support among Democrats is 2% (all time low). His support among GOP is 90 or 91% (forget which). His support among whites and people with no college education and among seniors has dropped considerably. Trump is the cause of these low numbers. They don't exist because Biden is or is not the candidate. 

Biden's compelling because he's not Trump. In an era of the Trump cult, that will be enough. It's wining right now that's for sure. In a landslide! 

I wouldn't even necessary say that Reagan was a cult President. You also left out JFK though I don't think his cult status was until after he died. Then again, I wasn't alive back then.

I really have to question that 33% independent support number. And if you have influential figures in the TV media, news media, Hollywood, sports, schools and colleges constantly telling you how horrible a person is, yeah that person is going to suffer bad ratings because of it. But as we found out in 2004 and 2012, low approval ratings aren't enough to get someone out of office, you have to have someone who is a better option and Joe Biden simply is not up to the task. Add to that the Bradley factor, the undersampling of Republicans, registered instead of likely voters and this is a lot closer than people think.

Trump does frustrate me when he goes off topic, gets in unnecessary Twitter wars against people in his own party. But if he gets on message like he has in the past few rallies, and makes this an election about the economy, and properly exposes and makes the connection between the Democrats and the BLM/riot chaos, it'll be a landslide in his favor. Can he show the proper discipline to do that is harder to answer. I still fully believe this election is Trump's to lose. He has all the advantages and Biden basically has no base and a very bad enthusiasm gap. I question the people Trump has around him, both in advising, and in campaign strategy. The Republicans have ONLY themselves to blame for losing the House and if God forbid they lose the Senate and the Presidency, it's time for the GOP to dissolve.... not that they'll have much choice.

I stand by what I said earlier about the polls. Look at the polls in in Ohio and Florida. If Trump wins those two then Biden's only path is PA + MI + and WI. Trump down by 4 is for all purposes a tie. 5-7 is that middle ground. When he is consistently down by 8 or more in several swing states in multiple polls, then it's time to worry.

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On 7/3/2020 at 10:07 PM, billay said:

Also I'll say I just watched Trumps Mt. Rushmore speech. Look I dont like the guy and wont vote for him but I think tonight might have been one of his best speeches

While I liked the speech's content I think the problem for Trump is that his speeches like this are great, but he doesn't act on it. It's one thing to say, "Mt. Rushmore will never be desecrated." Never is a strong word, and he can't possibly guarantee that. If his campaign gets that message to the undecideds (I think 90% of people viewing that speech would vote him no matter what, but maybe you're the exception that proves the rule), he's got a good chance of spreading it, but I grow weary of all this preaching to the choir stuff. He needs to SHOW some action against this thuggery instead of just chest-pump to the base. He needs to put the riots, Black Lives Matter, and the Covid crisis into their proper contexts and at the same time expose Biden's horrible race record.

 

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13 minutes ago, servo75 said:

I wouldn't even necessary say that Reagan was a cult President. You also left out JFK though I don't think his cult status was until after he died. Then again, I wasn't alive back then.

I really have to question that 33% independent support number. And if you have influential figures in the TV media, news media, Hollywood, sports, schools and colleges constantly telling you how horrible a person is, yeah that person is going to suffer bad ratings because of it. But as we found out in 2004 and 2012, low approval ratings aren't enough to get someone out of office, you have to have someone who is a better option and Joe Biden simply is not up to the task. Add to that the Bradley factor, the undersampling of Republicans, registered instead of likely voters and this is a lot closer than people think.

Trump does frustrate me when he goes off topic, gets in unnecessary Twitter wars against people in his own party. But if he gets on message like he has in the past few rallies, and makes this an election about the economy, and properly exposes and makes the connection between the Democrats and the BLM/riot chaos, it'll be a landslide in his favor. Can he show the proper discipline to do that is harder to answer. I still fully believe this election is Trump's to lose. He has all the advantages and Biden basically has no base and a very bad enthusiasm gap. I question the people Trump has around him, both in advising, and in campaign strategy. The Republicans have ONLY themselves to blame for losing the House and if God forbid they lose the Senate and the Presidency, it's time for the GOP to dissolve.... not that they'll have much choice.

I stand by what I said earlier about the polls. Look at the polls in in Ohio and Florida. If Trump wins those two then Biden's only path is PA + MI + and WI. Trump down by 4 is for all purposes a tie. 5-7 is that middle ground. When he is consistently down by 8 or more in several swing states in multiple polls, then it's time to worry.

JFK became more of a cult figure because he died. He was just charismatic, but he didn't have any sort of kool-aid-drinking like devotion that a Bernie Sanders, FDR, Reagan, Ron Paul, or Donald Trump has or had. I say this being a Bernie Sanders supporter, but I am comfortable disagreeing with him, admitting that he isn't right about some things, and I'm okay with other people's criticism of him. 

In regards to 33%, send your questions to Siena. 

Yeah, Trump has things he can do to dominish the chances that he loses, much of it is just acting more professional and empathetic. That alone would diffuse some of the excitement of kicking him out of office---which is, I admit, is an intoxicating, euphoristic incentive to go vote for Democrats and independent left-leaning people. It's probably somewhat akin to how some conservative felt about stopping Clinton in 2016. The difference in 2020, is Trump is president, and there's the extra anger that Trump won last time, especially considering he lost the PV.

I've looked at the polls. Biden is beating Trump beyond the margin of error on average in OH, FL, PA, MI, WI. Currently, Biden is averaging +9.7 in MI, +7.5 in PA, +8.1 in WI, +6.3 in FL,  +3.1 in AZ, +2.5 in OH, +3.2 in NC, +1.7 in GA. Meanwhile, Trump is leading in TX by only 1.2   I don't know how anyone can spin this into a Trump victory if the election were held today. I doubt there are enough undecided voters and enough time left to really turn this around for Trump. He's clearly the underdog. I'm not writing him off, but he'd have to be a lot better and in a way that appeals to independents and not his base. 

How is Trump down by 4 a tie? I don't think history is going to repeat itself like last time. Trump has achieved "credibility" by becoming president. I think there are far fewer silent Trump voters in 2020 than there were in 2016. By saying -4 for Trump is a win for Trump, you are betting 100% of the margin of error going in Trump's favor. Most margins of error are around there, give or take 0.5. 

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10 minutes ago, servo75 said:

While I liked the speech's content I think the problem for Trump is that his speeches like this are great, but he doesn't act on it. It's one thing to say, "Mt. Rushmore will never be desecrated." Never is a strong word, and he can't possibly guarantee that. If his campaign gets that message to the undecideds (I think 90% of people viewing that speech would vote him no matter what, but maybe you're the exception that proves the rule), he's got a good chance of spreading it, but I grow weary of all this preaching to the choir stuff. He needs to SHOW some action against this thuggery instead of just chest-pump to the base. He needs to put the riots, Black Lives Matter, and the Covid crisis into their proper contexts and at the same time expose Biden's horrible race record.

 

If he and the Republican Congress were smart they would try rolling out some sort of real criminal justice reform.

I'm getting a litted annoyed with the BLM protests in my city. This weekend they blocked a bar district and destroyed some windows to a historic bar and demand it be torn down because supposedly 200 years ago the building participated in slave trade. The bar owners are very active in the community and I very much doubt are racist.

If Biden continues his basement campaign and some of these protests keep damaging stuff I think people are going to become annoyed with it. What I guess I'm trying to say is it's the perfect opportunity for Trump to take the lead on.

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4 minutes ago, billay said:

I'm getting a litted annoyed with the BLM protests in my city.

This should be phrased with "I'm getting a little annoying with some of the BLM protesters in my city." The grand majority of them aren't advocating violence and destruction. The looters are mostly anarchists just taking advantage of the situation to smash things up. I've gone to a few of these BLM events and those that are crying for defunding the police, and tearing down Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus (i.e. non-Confederates) are like 10% of the BLM people. They're the protestors I don't like, because they diminish the credibility and moral authority of the whole movement, and it gives Fox News a segment of the protestors to focue on to make it appear as if all the protestors are that way. This was a tactic used on the Occupy Wall Street people too. 

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

This should be phrased with "I'm getting a little annoying with some of the BLM protesters in my city." The grand majority of them aren't advocating violence and destruction. The looters are mostly anarchists just taking advantage of the situation to smash things up. I've gone to a few of these BLM events and those that are crying for defunding the police, and tearing down Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus (i.e. non-Confederates) are like 10% of the BLM people. They're the protestors I don't like, because they diminish the credibility and moral authority of the whole movement, and it gives Fox News a segment of the protestors to focue on to make it appear as if all the protestors are that way. This was a tactic used on the Occupy Wall Street people too. 

You're right but as you know all it takes is for a small % to make a movement look bad. I was part of the Tea Party movement. Most of those people are good people who had enough then you had the few show up with racist signs directed at Obama. Guess how it was portrayed?

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11 hours ago, billay said:

You're right but as you know all it takes is for a small % to make a movement look bad

A big part of leading a successful movement is enforcing boundaries for the margins of the movement. You have to rapidly filter out and prevent people from associating with the movement that are going to do things like be violent, call police 'pigs', and so on.

In ways it's like brand management.

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4 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

A big part of leading a successful movement is enforcing boundaries for the margins of the movement. You have to rapidly filter out and prevent people from associating with the movement that are going to do things like be violent, call police 'pigs', and so on.

In ways it's like brand management.

You mean like how Trump has failed miserably in that regard in his movement as well - with people FAR more toxic, extreme, and xenophobic than Trump publicly praising and associating themselves with him, and Trump just making mealy-mouthed half-acknowledgements of them that only become major fodder for the media?

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