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Police Reform Proposals Poll


Police Reform Poll  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of these policing reforms would you support being implemented as a national standard for police departments?

    • Adopt technological and organizational approaches, such as the use of body cameras
    • Restrict policing actions that cause collateral damage such as shooting at moving vehicles.
    • Require law enforcement agencies to obtain written consent for consensual vehicle searches.
    • End stop-and-frisk policies
    • Require pre-employment screenings to identify prejudices
    • Require police officers to live in the community they protect
    • Require accredited implicit bias and other racial equity training for all police personnel.
    • Establish a public national database that tracks all police officers decertified in any state or locality
    • Investigate all fatal police shootings in the nation
    • Demilitarize the police
    • Deprioritize enforcement of minor offenses
    • Ensure law enforcement officers receive high-quality mental health and trauma support services
    • Provide increased funding for drug treatment, mental health support, educational completion programs, youth programs, both in-court and out-of-court diversion programs for non-violent offenses, and supportive interventions for families in crisis
    • End Section 287(g) agreements (currently allows DHS to deputize selected state and local law enforcement officers to enforce federal immigration law)
    • Promote alternative responses to 911 calls
    • Reform and restrict the “qualified immunity” defense under section 1983 for law enforcement officers.
    • Require the use of de-escalation procedures and alternatives to deadly force whenever possible.


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In light of all that has happened the past week, police reform is once again a big point of discussion. Today Joe Biden asked congress to take up police reform bills and said he would create a police oversight comission if elected president.

In this poll, the reforms I used mainly came from Julián Castro's People First Policing plan he released while running for president. Most of these reforms seem common sense to me, so I'm curious to see how this forum views them. 

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11 minutes ago, MysteryKnight said:

In light of all that has happened the past week, police reform is once again a big point of discussion. Today Joe Biden asked congress to take up police reform bills and said he would create a police oversight comission if elected president.

In this poll, the reforms I used mainly came from Julián Castro's People First Policing plan he released while running for president. Most of these reforms seem common sense to me, so I'm curious to see how this forum views them. 

Where is "abolish unaccountable secret police agencies that overstep due process, Constitutional limits, and principles of transparency, accountability, and integrity of policing by their very existence - such as the NSA, CSC, CIA, FBI, DHS, and others)," and "repeal, in it's entirety, the Patriot Act, the largest package of (Unconstitutional and State Crime) legislation that can be levied upon just uttering the term, "terrorist incident," on mere suspicion, removing Miranda rights, proper due process, standard, public, and regulated court trials (replacing them with secret trials that, by nature, can only be kangaroo courts), and allowing internal spying with no limits and barbaric, Medievalist practices as torture)," on that list. These two elements IMMENSELY compromise the integrity of policing. And let's not forget private corporate prisons and their Unconstitutional slave labour, as their existence actually corrupts the process of the policing end quite a lot as well. Virtually all of the listed ones I'd agree to, but the three points I've brought up would also need to be addressed. Oh, and elected sheriffs. That was a bad idea from the start, and still is.

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Many of these sound great — but they’re already in place in most police stations without ending the murder of unarmed black individuals by white officers.

One example of a 911 call reform:  VA medical centers have begun working with police departments on 911 calls involving Veterans.  As Veterans disproportionately own more firearms and also disproportionately are impacted by PTSD and traumatic brain injuries that can make them see police officers or innocent bystanders as enemies trying to kill them, 911 calls involving vets were extraordinarily more dangerous for both the Veteran and the police officer.

But by bringing trained mental health professionals who specialize in Vet issues on these 911 calls involving veterans, they were able to significantly decrease the number of deaths for veterans and police officers alike.

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I also think that any police officer with documented domestic abuse should be barred from serving. The rate is actually fairly high among police officers. 

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14 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I also think that any police officer with documented domestic abuse should be barred from serving. The rate is actually fairly high among police officers. 

I agree with this, as well as past membership in criminal organizations or gangs or armed extremist militias - regardless of socio-political viewpoint (ex-Black Panthers would be banned just as much as former members of "the Order," Aryan Brotherhood, or KKK would). As well as clean bill of health from a mandatory and thorough psychological and substance abuse testing - twice, or even four times, annually.. And, I still stand firmly by my four points above, and believe they're absolutely essential to address.

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25 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

@vcczarI'm curious what your argument against body cams is. I feel like it protects both victims, and good cops.

I only selected things I was certain about. A lot of the things I left unchecked are things I have not researched enough about. Naturally, I’m in favor of anything that increases the protection of victims and good cops. Policing isn’t one of my areas of expertise. I actually contemplated not even responding to this post at all.

i went to three Philadelphia protests today. I always feel out of place at these things. I agree with what they are protesting about but my energy isn’t directed towards hate or symbolism. I want results and diplomacy. This makes me a bad revolutionary. I felt like one of the only people at the protest that didn’t think all cops were the same, even though I’m sure a good portion of them were like me too. “Defund the police” and “fuck cops” just seem counterproductive to me.

This is probably the 10th protest I’ve gone to, excluding Occupy Wall Street participation. I always end up feeling like the protest isn’t organized properly.   I also don’t like repetitive chanting. Yet I keep doing it.

I don’t think it’s too hard to be outraged at racist cops murdering black people and feeling bad for the good cops at the same time. I think the protests often are geared to assume all cops are racists and physically abusive.  

 

 

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10 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I only selected things I was certain about. A lot of the things I left unchecked are things I have not researched enough about. Naturally, I’m in favor of anything that increases the protection of victims and good cops. Policing isn’t one of my areas of expertise. I actually contemplated not even responding to this post at all.

i went to three Philadelphia protests today. I always feel out of place at these things. I agree with what they are protesting about but my energy isn’t directed towards hate or symbolism. I want results and diplomacy. This makes me a bad revolutionary. I felt like one of the only people at the protest that didn’t think all cops were the same, even though I’m sure a good portion of them were like me too. “Defund the police” and “fuck cops” just seem counterproductive to me.

This is probably the 10th protest I’ve gone to, excluding Occupy Wall Street participation. I always end up feeling like the protest isn’t organized properly.   I also don’t like repetitive chanting. Yet I keep doing it.

I don’t think it’s too hard to be outraged at racist cops murdering black people and feeling bad for the good cops at the same time. I think the protests often are geared to assume all cops are racists and physically abusive.  

 

 

It seems things are really gearing up, the way the protests and the responses to them, are being seen, to the Johnson and Nixon days.

 

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Eliminate qualified immunity for cops. Make them liable when they overstep their authority. Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor have both suggested this.

Strictly limit the use of SWAT teams. They should be used only when such force is necessary to defuse an already violent situation; that is, unless police intervene, there is an immediate threat of further loss of life. That's really the only scenario under which you can justify using tactics that have proven over the years to themselves carry a not insignificant risk of taking innocent lives.

End the militarization of the police force. No more no knock tactics, no more smashing down doors to say hello. No nighttime raids, no shooting through windows, no murdering dogs. Focus on de-escalation.

Transparency and oversight. Full civilian oversight boards. Independent prosecutor to bring charges. Full investigations.

End the culture of silence. Transparency in all dealings. Cops whose body cameras "malfunction" can be gone. Cops who stand by quietly, go. No one needs them.

Train in methods other than the use of force. Train them that force is a last resort, train them in non-violent methods. The last thing cops need to be doing is reaching for handcuffs, not the first. Train in communication, establishing trust, and openness. And hold them to that.

Ban knee holds and choke holds as acceptable practice.

Adopt the Use of Force Continuum for every police department in the country. Ensure there are at least six levels of steps with clear rules on escalation.

Require each state's Open Records Act does not shield officer misconduct information and disciplinary histories from the public.

Deny recertification credentials for officers if it's determined their use of force was unwarranted under federal guidelines.

Implement Citizen Review Boards to hold police accountable and build public confidence.

Require accreditation of all police academies and independently monitored examinations before certification as an officer.

Return to the Peelian Principles under which police forces were first formed.

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Every single one of these. 

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39 minutes ago, Patine said:

Is that on the checklist, or the checklist and @pilight my additional suggestions?

All including yours and @pilight , I have actually been discussing very similar suggestions among my friends 

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1 hour ago, TheMiddlePolitical said:

All including yours and @pilight , I have actually been discussing very similar suggestions among my friends 

You may or may not want to tell them that some of my list was borrowed from the NAACP

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1 hour ago, pilight said:

You may or may not want to tell them that some of my list was borrowed from the NAACP

Yes, That's where I actually initially saw some of them, quoted in a statement.

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22 hours ago, Actinguy said:

Many of these sound great — but they’re already in place in most police stations without ending the murder of unarmed black individuals by white officers.

One example of a 911 call reform:  VA medical centers have begun working with police departments on 911 calls involving Veterans.  As Veterans disproportionately own more firearms and also disproportionately are impacted by PTSD and traumatic brain injuries that can make them see police officers or innocent bystanders as enemies trying to kill them, 911 calls involving vets were extraordinarily more dangerous for both the Veteran and the police officer.

But by bringing trained mental health professionals who specialize in Vet issues on these 911 calls involving veterans, they were able to significantly decrease the number of deaths for veterans and police officers alike.

I agree that a lot of these perhaps would not prevent unarmed black people being killed by the police, or at least aren't directly aimed at that. Many of them on the other hand, probably would. But I also do believe that this much more than just stopping black people from being killed by law enforcement, it's about making the system more just and not one that targets minorities and ends up punishing them for minor offenses and treating them different than white people. That is where I think some of these policies such as written consent for vehicle searches, pre-employment screenings, implicit bias and racial equity training, tracking de-certified officers, and ending qualified immunity, etc. really help. And yeah there are probably plenty of departments that already have a lot of these things in place,  but every single one on this list is not a national standard when it very well should be. Considering there are thousands of police departments it's basically impossible to be done, but I would be interested in a comparison of which of these standards are in place in each station vs. the amount of cases of police brutality and such that they have so we have an idea on what actually works and what maybe doesn't make a difference. 

 

I can say that one example I have been very interested in researching is Camden, NJ. Notorious for their high crime rates. They disbanded the city police department in 2013 and created a new one. They laid off the entire force and hired new ones, and put a big focus on community policing. They are trained to use force as an absolute last resort, wear body cams, and have GPS devices. They invested in de-escalation training and have the officers engaged in community events. Their apporach seems to have worked extremely well as their crime rate has dropped over 40% since 2012. 

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7 minutes ago, MysteryKnight said:

I agree that a lot of these perhaps would not prevent unarmed black people being killed by the police, or at least aren't directly aimed at that. Many of them on the other hand, probably would. But I also do believe that this much more than just stopping black people from being killed by law enforcement, it's about making the system more just and not one that targets minorities and ends up punishing them for minor offenses and treating them different than white people. That is where I think some of these policies such as written consent for vehicle searches, pre-employment screenings, implicit bias and racial equity training, tracking de-certified officers, and ending qualified immunity, etc. really help. And yeah there are probably plenty of departments that already have a lot of these things in place,  but every single one on this list is not a national standard when it very well should be. Considering there are thousands of police departments it's basically impossible to be done, but I would be interested in a comparison of which of these standards are in place in each station vs. the amount of cases of police brutality and such that they have so we have an idea on what actually works and what maybe doesn't make a difference. 

 

I can say that one example I have been very interested in researching is Camden, NJ. Notorious for their high crime rates. They disbanded the city police department in 2013 and created a new one. They laid off the entire force and hired new ones, and put a big focus on community policing. They are trained to use force as an absolute last resort, wear body cams, and have GPS devices. They invested in de-escalation training and have the officers engaged in community events. Their apporach seems to have worked extremely well as their crime rate has dropped over 40% since 2012. 

What are your personal opinions on the ones @pilight and myself added as additional proposals?

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

What are your personal opinions on the ones @pilight and myself added as additional proposals?

I very much agree with both of your proposals as well. Many of the things @pilight added are expanded ideas on what was in the poll, that I think are all good and would increase accountabity and oversight of the police. I think in terms of what you talked about, my immediate focus on agreement is repealing the Patriot act. That is long overdue. I never gave much thought about elected sheriffs, but I agree that is a terrible that should be addressed. 

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6 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Also what does alternative responses to 911 calls mean

From Julián Castro's plan: "Promote alternative responses to 911 calls by establishing partnerships between mental health units and first responders. Support crisis intervention services equipped with medics, counselors, social workers, and, crisis workers, as first responders rather than armed police officers".

Basically, give people other call options if they are dealing with a non-violent situation or a situation which requires someone specialized in that specific area where a police officer is not going to be the best of help. 

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17 minutes ago, MysteryKnight said:

From Julián Castro's plan: "Promote alternative responses to 911 calls by establishing partnerships between mental health units and first responders. Support crisis intervention services equipped with medics, counselors, social workers, and, crisis workers, as first responders rather than armed police officers".

Basically, give people other call options if they are dealing with a non-violent situation or a situation which requires someone specialized in that specific area where a police officer is not going to be the best of help. 

I can understand this. Many paranoid schizophrenics or suicidal types will react poorly (even unpredictably) if the police are ones who show up.

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2 hours ago, MysteryKnight said:

From Julián Castro's plan: "Promote alternative responses to 911 calls by establishing partnerships between mental health units and first responders. Support crisis intervention services equipped with medics, counselors, social workers, and, crisis workers, as first responders rather than armed police officers".

Basically, give people other call options if they are dealing with a non-violent situation or a situation which requires someone specialized in that specific area where a police officer is not going to be the best of help. 

That's cool. I like it.

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5 hours ago, Wiw said:

What does 'defund the police' mean? It means Donald Trump gets reelected in November. That's all there is to it.

How does defunding the police affect who wins U.S. Presidential elections? Other than the fact that, in your paranoid narrative, it seems, everything leads to Trump being re-elected and magically being able to completely and utterly upend the U.S. Constitution and become a Fascist dictator and lead to the end of the world if he does.

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