Spain-PR

[lizarraba 0]

Hey @admin_270, you know we are having elections (again...) in Spain? This is the perfect moment to implement the most wanted system in years... Proportional Representation. You've always said that you will wait until there is a real election that would need PR to be played in PMI or PI. Well, I think this is the moment. The 29th we have elections in Austria too, and they also use PR, like 93 other countries... The time has come, bring PR to the Infinity games, like we all want, please.

[admin_270 846]

Yes, I'm aware. 

http://campaigns.270soft.com/2019/09/19/spain-november-2019/

No time right now, doing the port of the tool-chain, heading into U.S. primaries.

[Patine 469]

Just now, admin_270 said:

Yes, I'm aware. 

http://campaigns.270soft.com/2019/09/19/spain-november-2019/

No time right now, doing the port of the tool-chain, heading into U.S. primaries.

I knew it! Another disappointment! It's getting frustrating!

[Conservative Elector 2 333]

17 minutes ago, lizarraba said:

Hey @admin_270, you know we are having elections (again...) in Spain? This is the perfect moment to implement the most wanted system in years... Proportional Representation. You've always said that you will wait until there is a real election that would need PR to be played in PMI or PI. Well, I think this is the moment. The 29th we have elections in Austria too, and they also use PR, like 93 other countries... The time has come, bring PR to the Infinity games, like we all want, please.

I support a Spain-scenario and could help with whatever is needed for an Austria related thing.

[admin_270 846]

3 minutes ago, Patine said:

I knew it! Another disappointment! It's getting frustrating!

I was pretty clear in another thread.

 

[lizarraba 0]

6 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Yes, I'm aware. 

http://campaigns.270soft.com/2019/09/19/spain-november-2019/

No time right now, doing the port of the tool-chain, heading into U.S. primaries.

Ok, fair enough... 

[lizarraba 0]

5 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I support a Spain-scenario and could help with whatever is needed for an Austria related thing.

I've already made a Spanish scenario and I'm thinking in an austrian one

[Patine 469]

1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

I was pretty clear in another thread.

 

It's been 10 years since the last iteration of Chancellor Forever was released! Chancellor Forever 2009, remember? Why have I (and others) had to wait so long as is?

[admin_270 846]

Just now, Patine said:

Why have I (and others) had to wait so long as is?

Because the world doesn't revolve around you?

[admin_270 846]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

It's been 10 years since the last iteration of Chancellor Forever was released! Chancellor Forever 2009, remember? Why have I (and others) had to wait so long as is?

Chancellor Forever was paid for by a German political institute. If you want to fund PR, MMP, or what have you, by all means go ahead.

[Conservative Elector 2 333]

3 minutes ago, lizarraba said:

I've already made a Spanish scenario and I'm thinking in an austrian one

Yeah my endorsement was primarily for the PR  But thanks for your work, if you have question about Austria (what-if etc.) ping me here and we can discuss it somewhere else. My message box is a mess and full....

[Patine 469]

Just now, admin_270 said:

Because the world doesn't revolve around you?

No, but far more countries in the world have elections that use MMP or PR electoral systems than FPTP ones (and I believe Australia's is more or less unique). A significant number of this site's best scenario designers left (most permanently) when you shifted your marketing focus in the "Forever" games to "Infinity" games transition - but you may not have noticed.

[admin_270 846]

2 minutes ago, Patine said:

No, but far more countries in the world have elections that use MMP or PR electoral systems than FPTP ones (and I believe Australia's is more or less unique). A significant number of this site's best scenario designers left (most permanently) when you shifted your marketing focus in the "Forever" games to "Infinity" games transition - but you may not have noticed.

There are over 200 (!) campaigns designed for President Infinity, over 300 for the Infinity games.

[Patine 469]

2 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

There are over 200 (!) campaigns designed for President Infinity, over 300 for the Infinity games.

A LOT of those scenarios were obsoleted or redone (as new scenarios) because of the incremental and awkward way you updated scenario creation mechanics.

[admin_270 846]

2 minutes ago, Patine said:

A LOT of those scenarios were obsoleted or redone (as new scenarios) because of the incremental and awkward way you updated scenario creation mechanics.

Are you referring to Forever game engine campaigns? Yes, they were incompatible with the Infinity game engine.

This is a decision that often has to be made when introducing new technology. To what extent do you focus on backward compatibility? In that case, I decided to focus on moving forward with the new technology, due to the back-flips that would have to be done to ensure compatibility.

[Patine 469]

Just now, admin_270 said:

Are you referring to Forever game engine campaigns? Yes, they were incompatible with the Infinity game engine.

This is a decision that often has to be made when introducing new technology. To what extent do you focus on backward compatibility? In that case, I decided to focus on moving forward with the new technology, due to the back-flips that would have to be done to ensure compatibility.

Having all the electoral systems as scenario creation options available from one to the next - which is EXACTLY what I've just been complaining about.

[admin_270 846]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

Having all the electoral systems as scenario creation options available from one to the next - which is EXACTLY what I've just been complaining about.

Carrying the MMP system forward from the Forever game engine would have required a large amount of work. Basically, it would have had to be completely remade.

[Ido 0]

@lizarraba me and you share a similar problem, we both try to simulate PR countries, I went for a workaround (much to Patine's chagrin) that was like this:

 

redistribute seats based on demographics, it can be Catalonian Nationalists, Basque nationalists, rural people, city people etc and make them the new regions with an appropriate number of seats, I suggest taking a look at my Israel 2019 scenario to understand the workaround, but all around I recommend going for it.

 

Ask me if you have any questions, always happy to help

[Patine 469]

48 minutes ago, Ido said:

@lizarraba me and you share a similar problem, we both try to simulate PR countries, I went for a workaround (much to Patine's chagrin) that was like this:

 

redistribute seats based on demographics, it can be Catalonian Nationalists, Basque nationalists, rural people, city people etc and make them the new regions with an appropriate number of seats, I suggest taking a look at my Israel 2019 scenario to understand the workaround, but all around I recommend going for it.

 

Ask me if you have any questions, always happy to help

I still think it's quite ineloquent and clumsy, @lizarraba, and I'd advise just using the old K4E 2009 engine (which I recall you have and have created scenarios with) instead for more accurate results that do these elections some actual justice, and ignore @Ido and @NYrepublican condemning them seemingly just because they're "older game versions" (a chronic problem among many in the Internet, especially the teenage/early '20's demographic).

[Herbert Hoover 199]

12 hours ago, admin_270 said:

Because the world doesn't revolve around you?

I'll admit, this made me laugh a bit. 

@Patine

At the end of the day, Anthony is the creator and can choose how he develops his products. We are welcome to criticize, praise, complain, etc, but we should never demand features because we have no right to do so. 

For example, it's just fine to say that you'd like to see proportional representation in the game one day and that you're disappointed it's taken a backseat to other priorities. It's not okay to act entitled to it and to passive aggressively insist you know game development, updating, and what features should be included better than he does. It crosses a line into a personal attack, and no one appreciates the passive aggressiveness.

It's fine to complain. If you remember, I quite harshly criticized the state of undecided voters in the last version of the game and went as far to call it unplayable/broken. Those concerns were valid, as are yours, but I was direct with my concerns and never insisted to know better than Anthony. He took into account criticism and changed undecided mechanics and I am back to enjoying the game a lot more. 

What I'm getting at is that you're never going to get anywhere with this if you act entitled, act like you know better than he does, and generally act like a jerk.  

For reference: 

11 hours ago, Patine said:

Having all the electoral systems as scenario creation options available from one to the next - which is EXACTLY what I've just been complaining about.

 

11 hours ago, Patine said:

incremental and awkward way you updated scenario creation mechanics.

 

11 hours ago, Patine said:

A significant number of this site's best scenario designers left (most permanently) when you shifted your marketing focus in the "Forever" games to "Infinity" games transition - but you may not have noticed.

 

12 hours ago, Patine said:

I knew it! Another disappointment! It's getting frustrating!

 

[Ido 0]

@Patine Honestly, I don't know what you're smoking by saying that I condemn the Forever games because of "old games", honestly I have more games from before I was even born than I have new games so idk how that plays into your narrative.

Secondly, I was just trying to help @lizarraba with a more practical solution than ditching the whole thing and starting it again on a new and frankly unfamiliar engine, which I would call clumsy for not having a true editor that is easy to use like the Infinity games, so perhaps, don't bully everyone into developing for Kanzler Forever if they don't wanna

[daons 6]

15 hours ago, Ido said:

@lizarraba me and you share a similar problem, we both try to simulate PR countries, I went for a workaround (much to Patine's chagrin) that was like this:

 

redistribute seats based on demographics, it can be Catalonian Nationalists, Basque nationalists, rural people, city people etc and make them the new regions with an appropriate number of seats, I suggest taking a look at my Israel 2019 scenario to understand the workaround, but all around I recommend going for it.

 

Ask me if you have any questions, always happy to help

Hi @Ido how did you work out what percentages you gave to each party in the 'demographics', as some of these blocs have different seats favouring multiple parties. It looks to be an interesting work around and i'd like to know how you calculated them.

Thanks

[Patine 469]

6 hours ago, Ido said:

@Patine Honestly, I don't know what you're smoking by saying that I condemn the Forever games because of "old games", honestly I have more games from before I was even born than I have new games so idk how that plays into your narrative.

Secondly, I was just trying to help @lizarraba with a more practical solution than ditching the whole thing and starting it again on a new and frankly unfamiliar engine, which I would call clumsy for not having a true editor that is easy to use like the Infinity games, so perhaps, don't bully everyone into developing for Kanzler Forever if they don't wanna

But your flaw of logic here is thus. You're ASSUMING it's unfamiliar to @lizarraba, and, in general, assuming a general unfamiliarity across the board, and only I whose still posting have familiarity with it or see any value in using it, or see it as being more eloquent than a crude hackjob. Although I admit, I may be a bit pushy with this particular issue, you, in that last post, basically claim to all but speak for every other poster here, by default, and your also pushing which solution YOU see as objectively and irrefutably (as your going on about) more "practical" and less "clumsy." So, before you get self-righteously upset at me for statements here - LOOK IN THE MIRROR, as it were.

[Ido 0]

3 hours ago, daons said:

Hi @Ido how did you work out what percentages you gave to each party in the 'demographics', as some of these blocs have different seats favouring multiple parties. It looks to be an interesting work around and i'd like to know how you calculated them.

Thanks

I think I need to update that, I took the total votes from the 2015 elections and divided them by 120

[Ido 0]

1 hour ago, Patine said:

But your flaw of logic here is thus. You're ASSUMING it's unfamiliar to @lizarraba, and, in general, assuming a general unfamiliarity across the board, and only I whose still posting have familiarity with it or see any value in using it, or see it as being more eloquent than a crude hackjob. Although I admit, I may be a bit pushy with this particular issue, you, in that last post, basically claim to all but speak for every other poster here, by default, and your also pushing which solution YOU see as objectively and irrefutably (as your going on about) more "practical" and less "clumsy." So, before you get self-righteously upset at me for statements here - LOOK IN THE MIRROR, as it were.

Well I have no idea if lizarraba actually played K4E, so yes I'm "ASSUMING" that there's unfamiliarity with it