Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Below is the list of Republican candidates for president in 2016, for some light hearted humor, who is their equivilant in the democratic primaries this year. (not talking similarities politicially obviously, but rather their ranking in name ID, form, ability, momentum etc. Trump Bush Carson Christie Cruz Fiorina Graham Huckabee Jindal Kasich Paul Perry Rubio Santorum Walker Pataki Gilmore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 1,224 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 I don’t think there are any real comparisons. Many of these people are idiotic, semi-criminal, fearmongers, heartless, and other forms of notorious. They nominated the one that was all of these. Kasich, Gilmore, Pataki, Bush, Rubio were the best of this lot for integrity, brains, and generally reasonable issue stances (even if I disagrees with them). Christie would be here too if he were scandal free. I’ve also discounted anyone that seems to make it a major platform issue to oppose programs or funding aimed at helping the poor, sick, and otherwise disadvantaged. Overall, platform aside, I find it hard to compare 2016 Republicans with 2020 Democrats. It’s like comparing 15 people with mental handicaps with 15 Rhodes scholars. There are plenty of excellent Republican politicians (Huntsman, Weld, Kasich, Larry Hogan, Charlie Baker, etc etc etc), the party seems to elevate those showboating the worst of human nature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sean F. Kennedy 14 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, vcczar said: I don’t think there are any real comparisons. Many of these people are idiotic, semi-criminal, fearmongers, heartless, and other forms of notorious. They nominated the one that was all of these. Kasich, Gilmore, Pataki, Bush, Rubio were the best of this lot for integrity, brains, and generally reasonable issue stances (even if I disagrees with them). Christie would be here too if he were scandal free. I’ve also discounted anyone that seems to make it a major platform issue to oppose programs or funding aimed at helping the poor, sick, and otherwise disadvantaged. Overall, platform aside, I find it hard to compare 2016 Republicans with 2020 Democrats. It’s like comparing 15 people with mental handicaps with 15 Rhodes scholars. There are plenty of excellent Republican politicians (Huntsman, Weld, Kasich, Larry Hogan, Charlie Baker, etc etc etc), the party seems to elevate those showboating the worst of human nature. I don't know if you know anything about Mike dewine the current governor of Ohio but he makes me miss Kasich everyday even though I'm very Progressive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 The dynamic for the Dem 2020 field seems quite a bit different, outside of the large number. The Dems have 2 'runner-up' candidates, Biden (VP) and Sanders (runner-up in 2016). The Republican field in 2016 had neither of these (Cheney declined to run, and although Santorum was second in delegates in 2012, he never posed a serious threat - rather, Gingrich was the de facto runner-up in 2012). The Reps in 2016 had 9 current or former Governors, the Dems have 1 current and 1 former. The Dems in 2020 have 7 people whose highest office has been Mayor or Rep (8 if you include Castro). The Reps in 2016 had 0. So we're talking different kinds of candidates, IMO. The closest to Trump in the current Dem field is probably Williamson - something of a celebrity, unconventional skill set for a politician, no former political experience. Yang -> Fiorina? Business experience, Silicon Valley. Biden -> Bush? Running highest in polls to start, carries the mantle of the previous administration, lots of name recognition. Sanders -> Cruz? Ideologically further from the center, low charisma, something of a zealot. Anyway, these all seem like stretches to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, vcczar said: I don’t think there are any real comparisons. Many of these people are idiotic, semi-criminal, fearmongers, heartless, and other forms of notorious. They nominated the one that was all of these. Kasich, Gilmore, Pataki, Bush, Rubio were the best of this lot for integrity, brains, and generally reasonable issue stances (even if I disagrees with them). Christie would be here too if he were scandal free. I’ve also discounted anyone that seems to make it a major platform issue to oppose programs or funding aimed at helping the poor, sick, and otherwise disadvantaged. Overall, platform aside, I find it hard to compare 2016 Republicans with 2020 Democrats. It’s like comparing 15 people with mental handicaps with 15 Rhodes scholars. There are plenty of excellent Republican politicians (Huntsman, Weld, Kasich, Larry Hogan, Charlie Baker, etc etc etc), the party seems to elevate those showboating the worst of human nature. I think part of the purpose of this light hearted exercise is to lead to some self reflection. This is not a knock on you vcczar or your positions ( or reasoning in your post). But there are many on the opposite side of the spectrum that believe just as fervently what you said about this crop of democratic candidates. Virtually all the people running as Dems this year, and Reps in '16 are highly political creatures, creating lanes, and emphasizing their personality strengths. The same "lanes" exist on both sides, they just go by different names. The same types of candidates show up in crowded primaries, they just are mirror images. I encourage you to play the game, but if you don't want to that ok. (although I'd agree the democratic Trump isn't in the race, she's not old enough yet) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, admin_270 said: The dynamic for the Dem 2020 field seems quite a bit different, outside of the large number. The Dems have 2 'runner-up' candidates, Biden (VP) and Sanders (runner-up in 2016). The Republican field in 2016 had neither of these (Cheney declined to run, and although Santorum was second in delegates in 2012, he never posed a serious threat - rather, Gingrich was the de facto runner-up in 2012). The Reps in 2016 had 9 former Governors, the Dems have 1 current and 1 former. The Dems in 2020 have 7 people whose highest office has been Mayor or Rep (8 if you include Castro). The Reps in 2016 had 0. So we're talking different kinds of candidates, IMO. The closest to Trump in the current Dem field is probably Williamson - something of a celebrity, unconventional skill set for a politician, no former political experience. Yang -> Fiorina? Business experience, Silicon Valley. Biden -> Bush? Running highest in polls to start, carries the mantle of the previous administration, lots of name recognition. Sanders -> Cruz? Ideologically further from the center, low charisma, something of a zealot. Anyway, these all seem like stretches to me. I agree with most of your statements, thanks for attempting to play the game, I can't argue your thought process (not that I would anyway) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Is Buttigeig the Carson? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 What were the attractions to Carson? He was outside of Washington ('the swamp'), not a politician (ditto), he promised 'healing' (unconventional background), and was to an extent an inspirational candidate due to his personal story. Does Buttigieg fit this the best? Perhaps Messam? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Buttigieg -> Rubio? Young, 'minority', relatively charismatic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, admin_270 said: Buttigieg -> Rubio? Young, 'minority', relatively charismatic. I feel like Harris is Rubio...a lot of hope out of the gate, and attention, but struggle to excite large numbers in the party. To your Carson comment, I think republicans are often drawn to people who excel in the professional world. An educated doctor, with several awards, or a business man. I'd bet nearly all Carson supporters moved towards Trump in that regard. Republicans tend to be drawn toward Executive experience in candidates, doctor, business man, those would fit that category. Democrats tend to be more drawn to Senate types, because they speak more philosophically. Republicans generally focus on past results, Democrats often on what "can be" in the future. You earlier said that Republicans had a bunch of governors, Dems a bunch of Senators, if you simply interchange them the comparisons become easier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Actinguy 862 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, admin_270 said: The dynamic for the Dem 2020 field seems quite a bit different, outside of the large number. The Dems have 2 'runner-up' candidates, Biden (VP) and Sanders (runner-up in 2016). The Republican field in 2016 had neither of these (Cheney declined to run, and although Santorum was second in delegates in 2012, he never posed a serious threat - rather, Gingrich was the de facto runner-up in 2012). The Reps in 2016 had 9 current or former Governors, the Dems have 1 current and 1 former. The Dems in 2020 have 7 people whose highest office has been Mayor or Rep (8 if you include Castro). The Reps in 2016 had 0. So we're talking different kinds of candidates, IMO. The closest to Trump in the current Dem field is probably Williamson - something of a celebrity, unconventional skill set for a politician, no former political experience. Yang -> Fiorina? Business experience, Silicon Valley. Biden -> Bush? Running highest in polls to start, carries the mantle of the previous administration, lots of name recognition. Sanders -> Cruz? Ideologically further from the center, low charisma, something of a zealot. Anyway, these all seem like stretches to me. Fair start. I might give the Trump title to Buttigieg. He seems to be...either naturally or through effort/planning...a master of the media/social media dominance game. I mean that as a compliment and a Buttigieg supporter/Trump hater. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 1,224 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 48 minutes ago, admin_270 said: Buttigieg -> Rubio? Young, 'minority', relatively charismatic. Rubio had name recognition. I don’t think there has ever been anything like Buttigieg before. Maybe William Jennings Bryan, who had been a US Rep (so experience), was 36 or 37, not coastal, charismatic, religious, high integrity. But even then, Bryan wasn’t a war vet, a minority, didn’t have executive experience, didn’t speak 7 languages. Bryan also appealed to emotion and Buttigieg appeals primarily to reason and credibility. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 469 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, vcczar said: Rubio had name recognition. I don’t think there has ever been anything like Buttigieg before. Maybe William Jennings Bryan, who had been a US Rep (so experience), was 36 or 37, not coastal, charismatic, religious, high integrity. But even then, Bryan wasn’t a war vet, a minority, didn’t have executive experience, didn’t speak 7 languages. Bryan also appealed to emotion and Buttigieg appeals primarily to reason and credibility. Bryan was also originally a member of a Third Party that snagged the Democratic Nomination too, in 1896, while also holding the nomination for his own, and two much smaller parties, co-terminously. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Warren -> Rand Paul? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Kasich -> Hickenlooper? Klobuchar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vcczar 1,224 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, admin_270 said: Kasich -> Hickenlooper? Klobuchar? This is the best comparison so far and may be the only real comparison to be made. I think Warren is more mainstream among senators than Rand Paul is among senators. I think Warren is like the Ted Cruz of the Democrats. Sanders may be more like the Rand Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, admin_270 said: Warren -> Rand Paul? agreed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, admin_270 said: Kasich -> Hickenlooper? Klobuchar? My thoughts are Klobuchar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, vcczar said: Sanders may be more like the Rand Paul. Ya, I could see the comparison either way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Is Beto--->Santorum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 @HonestAbe Beto -> Christie? Higher charisma, relatively successful in an opposite-colour state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Santorum -> Booker? Gillibrand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SilentLiberty 219 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 This is more based off of just the roles I'd see them fitting as a mix of personalities, how I think they are viewed in their party, how they campaign, things of that nature. I'm sure there is some I left out just a quick list. My attempt at the game if you will. Donald Trump - Bernie Sanders Jeb Bush - Joe Biden Ben Carson - Beto O'Rourke Chris Christie - Kamala Harris Ted Cruz - Elizabeth Warren John Kasich - Kirsten Gillibrand Rand Paul - Tulsi Gabbard Marco Rubio - Pete Buttigieg Rick Perry - John Hickenlooper Mike Huckabee - John Delaney Lindsey Graham - Cory Booker Jim Gilmore - Richard Ojeda Carly Fiorina - Andrew Yang Bobby Jindal - Julian Castro Scott Walker - Eric Swalwell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 469 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 4 hours ago, HonestAbe said: Below is the list of Republican candidates for president in 2016, for some light hearted humor, who is their equivilant in the democratic primaries this year. (not talking similarities politicially obviously, but rather their ranking in name ID, form, ability, momentum etc. Trump Bush Carson Christie Cruz Fiorina Graham Huckabee Jindal Kasich Paul Perry Rubio Santorum Walker Pataki Gilmore I personally believe that making such comparisons is sloppy, highly inaccurate, a distorted view of affairs, and tends to lead to the forcing associations that aren't there, or realistic, which may linger in the mind, possibly in unhealthy ways, after the question is answered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
admin_270 845 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 @SilentLiberty I like the Carson-Beto link. Also the Graham-Booker one. But why Kasich-Gillibrand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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