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Klobuchar to announce her plans on Sunday, O'Rourke "by end of this Month"


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26 minutes ago, jnewt said:

If Renacci is simply a "Rubber Stamp for Trump", and Brown defeated him with ease, it would only be logical that Brown would then defeat Trump by a similar margin... You even say Renacci's base is Trump's base... If Brown was the nominee running against a different Republican then maybe I'd agree, but otherwise your argument isn't even following its own logic. By your logic, Brown would lose to a Republican with more "depth" (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but defeat a Trump/Renacci style Republican. 

 

17 minutes ago, jnewt said:

If one agrees 100% with Trump it would make sense that their bases of support would be interchangeable...

I don't think you're grasping what I mean. No politician is ever elected purely on base support, and to tie yourself to another politician wholesale with no trademark policy or defining features of your own except that you are going to be a rubber stamp for another guy is ALMOST ALWAYS bad politics. It's a failing strategy 95% of the time. Voters want a politician, a leader, that, well, leads, not follows. Sure, you can support the guy, but you also should be willing to stand up for your own policies or at the very least have a personality. None of which Renacci had. Very few people can pull off a Trump-style campaign, Donald Trump is one of the few, and if you tie yourself entirely to that, you'll sink. Take Kevin Cramer, he was an outstanding candidate, a popular and well-known rep with a history of supporting the President but also having a North Dakota flavor and a political personality, being someone that appeals to an electorate beyond what that electorate thinks about another guy. 

Simply put, Trump was elected with more than just his base, and he'll win Ohio again for the same reason.

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7 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

 

I don't think you're grasping what I mean. No politician is ever elected purely on base support, and to tie yourself to another politician wholesale with no trademark policy or defining features of your own except that you are going to be a rubber stamp for another guy is ALMOST ALWAYS bad politics. It's a failing strategy 95% of the time. Voters want a politician, a leader, that, well, leads, not follows. Sure, you can support the guy, but you also should be willing to stand up for your own policies or at the very least have a personality. None of which Renacci had. Very few people can pull off a Trump-style campaign, Donald Trump is one of the few, and if you tie yourself entirely to that, you'll sink. Take Kevin Cramer, he was an outstanding candidate, a popular and well-known rep with a history of supporting the President but also having a North Dakota flavor and a political personality, being someone that appeals to an electorate beyond what that electorate thinks about another guy. 

Simply put, Trump was elected with more than just his base, and he'll win Ohio again for the same reason.

Both of them received votes from more than just their base, but the point is their supporters are the same people. Very few people who voted for Sherrod Brown over a Trump Republican are going to turn around and vote for Trump himself. That wouldn't make any sense. If Brown can defeat the guy who stands for everything Trump stands for, then he should be able to defeat Trump himself. If Trump's policies (without the baggage) can't defeat Brown, then it doesn't make sense that Trump would be able to defeat him. Granted, that's not considering the very real possibility that Ohio is getting redder by the year...

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24 minutes ago, jnewt said:

Both of them received votes from more than just their base, but the point is their supporters are the same people. Very few people who voted for Sherrod Brown over a Trump Republican are going to turn around and vote for Trump himself. That wouldn't make any sense. If Brown can defeat the guy who stands for everything Trump stands for, then he should be able to defeat Trump himself. If Trump's policies (without the baggage) can't defeat Brown, then it doesn't make sense that Trump would be able to defeat him. Granted, that's not considering the very real possibility that Ohio is getting redder by the year...

This is somewhat silly when you consider a state like Illinois which elected Obama by 25 (!!) points in 2008 and then turned around in 2010 to elect a Republican to the Senate by 2 points but then again give it's Electoral votes to Obama in 2012 by a cooler 17 point margin. The process you describe is actually quite common and not a far-fetched extension of my logic.

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7 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

This is somewhat silly when you consider a state like Illinois which elected Obama by 25 (!!) points in 2008 and then turned around in 2010 to elect a Republican to the Senate by 2 points but then again give it's Electoral votes to Obama in 2012 by a cooler 17 point margin. The process you describe is actually quite common and not a far-fetched extension of my logic.

It's not silly because we're talking about candidates who are copies of each other (at least policy-wise). Obama and whatever Democrat ran for Senate in Illinois in 2010 were not as similar to each other as Trump and Renacci are. Not to mention Trump and Renacci both have much more sharply-defined personalities than Obama (causing their support to be more aligned) and the fact that Trump is completely different from any other President we've ever had.

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19 minutes ago, jnewt said:

It's not silly because we're talking about candidates who are copies of each other (at least policy-wise). Obama and whatever Democrat ran for Senate in Illinois in 2010 were not as similar to each other as Trump and Renacci are. Not to mention Trump and Renacci both have much more sharply-defined personalities than Obama (causing their support to be more aligned) and the fact that Trump is completely different from any other President we've ever had.

This is the problem here, Renacci does NOT have a sharply defined personality. He's a stuffed suit at best, he's not his own man, and that's a difficult thing to sell which he did remarkably well. Alexi Giannoulous, by the way, quite similar to the President save his Grecity.

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6 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

This is the problem here, Renacci does NOT have a sharply defined personality. He's a stuffed suit at best, he's not his own man, and that's a difficult thing to sell which he did remarkably well. Alexi Giannoulous, by the way, quite similar to the President save his Grecity.

I disagree. Renacci’s antics on the campaign trail were very similar to the way Trump acts. Trump is just flashier. 

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2 hours ago, jnewt said:

If Renacci is simply a "Rubber Stamp for Trump", and Brown defeated him with ease, it would only be logical that Brown would then defeat Trump by a similar margin... You even say Renacci's base is Trump's base... If Brown was the nominee running against a different Republican then maybe I'd agree, but otherwise your argument isn't even following its own logic. By your logic, Brown would lose to a Republican with more "depth" (which I don't necessarily disagree with), but defeat a Trump/Renacci style Republican. 

But this was also in a blue year with a +7 to +8 advantage for Democrats.

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 1:21 AM, jnewt said:

I disagree. Renacci’s antics on the campaign trail were very similar to the way Trump acts. Trump is just flashier. 

AND, Trump being flashier is what made him more successful than Renacci.  Renacci was a backup plan for the Republicans and still made that race somewhat competitive.  That isn't a good sign for Brown or the Democrats of the state.

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14 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

AND, Trump being flashier is what made him more successful than Renacci.  Renacci was a backup plan for the Republicans and still made that race somewhat competitive.  That isn't a good sign for Brown or the Democrats of the state.

It made him more successful ELECTORALLY (but also shows the vapid, thoughtless, impressionable, and low point American electoral politics has fallen to - though is not unique among nations in the world today for). Also, Trump has confirmed in his bungling, flip-flopping Administration with a revolving door Cabinet and no real vision or platform at all, and a definite sense of his political incompetence and lack of real knowledge outside a few limited sphere on display for all to see, just what everyone who has been paying attention to this loudmouthed showman and con-artist since he came into the public eye in the late '70's should have fully expected.

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

It made him more successful ELECTORALLY (but also shows the vapid, thoughtless, impressionable, and low point American electoral politics has fallen to - though is not unique among nations in the world today for). Also, Trump has confirmed in his bungling, flip-flopping Administration with a revolving door Cabinet and no real vision or platform at all, and a definite sense of his political incompetence and lack of real knowledge outside a few limited sphere on display for all to see, just what everyone who has been paying attention to this loudmouthed showman and con-artist since he came into the public eye in the late '70's should have fully expected.

And, since we were discussing an election, one would conclude that that was what I was referring to when I mentioned success.

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1 minute ago, jvikings1 said:

And, since we were discussing an election, one would conclude that that was what I was referring to when I mentioned success.

I thought that might possibly be the case - but assuming things on the Internet has become dangerous in the modern day and age. Plus, certain other posters, such as one whose handle name hybrids a tuber and a larger relative of a seal, sincerely believe Trump was successful in far more than an election, but in possible Earthly endeavour a man can be... :P 

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22 hours ago, Edouard said:

I begin to believe that Kamala Harris is the next Democratic nominee.

Hard to be the front runner of a big crowd in the early stages. 

So many choices, so much time.  With that said she clearly viable that’s not in doubt.  

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2 minutes ago, HonestAbe said:

Difficile d’être le favori d’une grande foule dès les premières étapes. 

Tant de choix, tellement de temps. Cela dit, elle est clairement viable, cela ne fait aucun doute.  

I am almost certain that Sanders won't win because too much left Dems are declared (Kamala, Warren, Gillibrand, Booker) while Klobuchar is the only moderate yet

However I ask myself if Biden will go and if Biden would win, in 2016 he's been reluctent for a while then renounced.

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5 minutes ago, Edouard said:

I am almost certain that Sanders won't win because too much left Dems are declared (Kamala, Warren, Gillibrand, Booker) while Klobuchar is the only moderate yet

I wouldn't include Kamala Gillibrand and Booker as left-wing Democrats, I don't know where your getting that from, but they certainly are not progressives.

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11 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

I wouldn't include Kamala Gillibrand and Booker as left-wing Democrats, I don't know where your getting that from, but they certainly are not progressives.

I consider them for their platform 😛

If I would have to classify every "MAJOR" Dem candidates from the Right to the left I would say...

Rightest to the most Lest

 

Moderate side :

Biden (moderate on society and economy)

Klobuchar (between moderate and progressist on society and quite moderate for economy)

O Rourke (progressist on society but moderate on economy)

 

"Between both"

Kamala Harris (Not enough moderate and quite progressist)

Booker (same)

Gilibrand (same

 

Progressist side on economy AND society :

Warren

Sanders

 

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7 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

I wouldn't include Kamala Gillibrand and Booker as left-wing Democrats, I don't know where your getting that from, but they certainly are not progressives.

So it's alright for you to use, "left-wing" but when I say it I get a: "ThERe'S tOo MaNy bLoCS tO clAsSiFy oNe aS lEfT WiNG"

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2 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

So it's alright for you to use, "left-wing" but when I say it I get a: "ThERe'S tOo MaNy bLoCS tO clAsSiFy oNe aS lEfT WiNG"

I mainly just took issue with the fact you used left-wing and liberal interchangeably, when there is a vast difference between the two, it's fine to use left-wing when you talking about, well left-wing politics, and not some centrist liberals, who love the status quo minus, to put it in terms you'd understand  "orange man bad, he sickness, not symptom of broken system".

 

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16 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

So it's alright for you to use, "left-wing" but when I say it I get a: "ThERe'S tOo MaNy bLoCS tO clAsSiFy oNe aS lEfT WiNG"

Well, actually, you're attacking @WVProgressive's statement to use against something I was the first one to criticize in your way of speaking (that has achieved one of those annoying ignorant, uninformed, cliched, myth-adhering, and even stupid-sounding terms that have inexplicably been accepted as somehow "credible" in the modern parlance, collectively completely denigrating the tone of the modern socio-political dialogue). And I'm still waiting for you to answer my question on what POLITICAL PARTY you actually think I belong to.

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30 minutes ago, Edouard said:

My baaadd I wanted to write Sanders xD (I already included Biden first as the rightest Dem)

Ahhh, I didn’t see that you wrote him twice. 

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