Trump's Leadership, Charisma, Integrity

[vcczar 1,224]

You may have seen Trump's 2020 stats in the blog for 270Soft. There's been a lot of debate on the leadership stat by me and a few others. Anthony was wise to create an editor to allow people to amend campaigns in the event of disagreements. However, I want to see what everyone else has to say on Trump's leadership, charisma, and integrity. 

I will likely have Trump at a leadership of 4 (party isn't unified, can't reach 50% approval, aides keep reporting a lot of chaos in the White House, and his rhetoric isn't unifying, etc. etc. etc.). I have been convinced by Anthony that Trump's charisma should be high, and I agree with Anthony's placement. I think the integrity should actually be a 2, for what then is a 2, 1, or 0 for? However, I could probably be convinced he is a 3, so I don't contest that number. 

[Rodja 51]

Leadership:3

Charisma:6

Integrity:1

[vcczar 1,224]

13 minutes ago, Rodja said:

Leadership:3

Charisma:6

Integrity:1

Why don't you input this into the poll?

[Rodja 51]

I checked all the boxes but forgot to submit it.xD

[TheMiddlePolitical 98]

8

8

4

[Patine 469]

1 hour ago, TheMiddlePolitical said:

8

8

4

Trump Cult thrall detected! Only @Conservative Elector 2, the unconditional admirer and supporter of every single candidate the GOP put up for election, because "supporting the Party candidate and unity should be uber al" - even above choosing good candidates, good policies, thinking about the election or the issues, or pushing for the true good of the nation or people - gave him equal or higher in all three categories.

[vcczar 1,224]

26 minutes ago, Patine said:

Trump Cult thrall detected! Only @Conservative Elector 2, the unconditional admirer and supporter of every single candidate the GOP put up for election, because "supporting the Party candidate and unity should be uber al" - even above choosing good candidates, good policies, thinking about the election or the issues, or pushing for the true good of the nation or people - gave him equal or higher in all three categories.

@Patine are you going to vote in this poll? I don't understand how @Conservative Elector 2 gives Trump an integrity of 5. I'm wonder what he's missed in the news or what he doesn't know about Trump's past. It also makes me wonder who he thinks has lower integrity than Trump? He has him at the midway point which means he's average integrity, which means there must be a significant number of people below Trump in this area. 

[Patine 469]

7 minutes ago, vcczar said:

@Patine are you going to vote in this poll? I don't understand how @Conservative Elector 2 gives Trump an integrity of 5. I'm wonder what he's missed in the news or what he doesn't know about Trump's past. It also makes me wonder who he thinks has lower integrity than Trump? He has him at the midway point which means he's average integrity, which means there must be a significant number of people below Trump in this area. 

I would have to consider before voting. This new 10-point scale is one I'm used to working with for these attributes in this light (you may recall, I griped a bit about the mechanical change itself).

[NYConservative 39]

Hmm... 1 on integrity or 0 on integrity...

[Conservative Elector 2 333]

On 11/2/2018 at 9:35 PM, vcczar said:

@Patine are you going to vote in this poll? I don't understand how @Conservative Elector 2 gives Trump an integrity of 5. I'm wonder what he's missed in the news or what he doesn't know about Trump's past. It also makes me wonder who he thinks has lower integrity than Trump? He has him at the midway point which means he's average integrity, which means there must be a significant number of people below Trump in this area. 

A 5 is not close to what I expect from a politician. Even though he is a Republican, I gave a realistic assumption and have to say that Trump should have way more integrity for this office. Giving a 10 would have been an insanely biased, and even as a republican leaning person I would love to see a president with more integrity. Seriously the President's alleged affair with a porn star is on the news for months, while major issues could be addressed?

I had given Obama probably an 8. So it is not that I give Trump a 10 and Obama a 0. Everything below 5 would need a dramatic event in his presidency I believe and I cannot think of any major flaws. Ok Watergate perhaps...

On 11/2/2018 at 9:06 PM, Patine said:

Trump Cult thrall detected! Only @Conservative Elector 2, the unconditional admirer and supporter of every single candidate the GOP put up for election, because "supporting the Party candidate and unity should be uber al" - even above choosing good candidates, good policies, thinking about the election or the issues, or pushing for the true good of the nation or people - gave him equal or higher in all three categories.

At least I have to thank you that you understood what I prefer  I advocate party unity for Democrats as well. I always said Sanders voter who refused to vote for Clinton are responsible when Trump is elected. I cannot understand why someone who voted for Sanders in the primaries, would consider Trump the lesser evil compared to Clinton. And Nader voters probably cost Al Gore his victory. Same story.

And no I do not support every GOP candidate. In Illinois's 3rd district I fully endorse Democrat Dan Lipinski and would be proud to vote for him in order to defend dignity, since Arthur Jones is nothing but a Nazi, who is not representing Republican values. He would damage the party and he is just running under its banner, because without the GOP no one would vote for him. Same goes for David Duke... I would not endorse him either.

[ThePotatoWalrus 471]

1. 7
2. 7
3. 4

orange man bad

[Reagan04 658]

4

8

1

[Patine 469]

8 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

At least I have to thank you that you understood what I prefer  I advocate party unity for Democrats as well. I always said Sanders voter who refused to vote for Clinton are responsible when Trump is elected. I cannot understand why someone who voted for Sanders in the primaries, would consider Trump the lesser evil compared to Clinton. And Nader voters probably cost Al Gore his victory. Same story.

And no I do not support every GOP candidate. In Illinois's 3rd district I fully endorse Democrat Dan Lipinski and would be proud to vote for him in order to defend dignity, since Arthur Jones is nothing but a Nazi, who is not representing Republican values. He would damage the party and he is just running under its banner, because without the GOP no one would vote for him. Same goes for David Duke... I would not endorse him either.

In my opinion, party loyalty and unity are worth used toilet paper, and should be one of the lowest priorities to a sober, thoughtful, and rational electorate who care about their nation on the level of it's true advancement and prosperity more holistically. A two-party system that stands firmly in unchallengeable collective power for 150 years (yes, you get a proverbial dime, @Reagan04, but I can't make this point without saying this) is FAR more unhealthy for a nation's political culture and scheme than a true multi-party system here coalitions and compromises are REQUIRED to govern and individual parties can, and often must, merge, divide, spawn anew viably, and die.

[avatarmushi 6]

5 Leadership

7 Charisma

1 or 2 integrity if we are talking about realism, however I put a three from a purely gameplay perspective.

[Patine 469]

14 minutes ago, avatarmushi said:

5 Leadership

7 Charisma

1 or 2 integrity if we are talking about realism, however I put a three from a purely gameplay perspective.

Why does he get more from a gameplay perspective, if I may ask?

[ThePotatoWalrus 471]

To the people who put him as one in integrity? Why? To me it makes absolutely no sense at all to put him that low, just because "orange man bad say mean things"

[Patine 469]

1 minute ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

To the people who put him as one in integrity? Why? To me it makes absolutely no sense at all to put him that low, just because "orange man bad say mean things"

I haven't assigned him a rating, but I find yours and a couple others' here have assigned too high at 4 or 5. I admit, a 0 is probably Putin or Mugabe (because most worst leaders of note in office right now don't even bother with elections of any sort, really), and 1 would likely be Nixon or W. Bush. I'd likely give Trump a 2, at most a 3, but I wouldn't give Hillary Clinton any higher, for the record.

[WVProgressive 56]

14 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

To the people who put him as one in integrity? Why? To me it makes absolutely no sense at all to put him that low, just because "orange man bad say mean things"

There's also the putting kids into concentration camps detention centers, so it's a bit more than saying mean things.

[Patine 469]

10 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

There's also the putting kids into concentration camps detention centers, so it's a bit more than saying mean things.

Mind you, I suppose there is also how he refers to many foreign leaders. He seems to view Kim Jong-un as almost a "kid brother," Vladimir Putin almost like an "old drinking buddy," and he wanted to protect Mohammed bin Salman from any "rush judgements" over the murder and dismemberment of critical journalist in a Saudi consulate on Turkish soil. But, on the other hand, constitutionally elected leaders of traditional American allies and the free press (the backbone of any free society with an accountable government) he portrays almost as "vile enemies intent on destroying the United States as a nation and it's values." I'm not really sure that rhetoric is good sign.

[avatarmushi 6]

4 hours ago, Patine said:

Why does he get more from a gameplay perspective, if I may ask?

For some reason in Vcczar's 2020 campaign i've found that if I change Trump's integrity and experience down to 2 & 3 respectively and simulate Biden V.S. Trump, Biden regularly breaks 500 EVs and 65% popular vote with a good Trump performance having him break 40%. While I wouldn't say that result is impossible I don't think it make sense as an average. If these results continued to the official 2020 campaign I feel like it would call for what is effectively a 1.5 integrity score. It also kind of depends on how much of a difference the change from 1-5 to 1-10 is for integrity scandals. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by avatarmushi
Spelling

[vcczar 1,224]

5 minutes ago, avatarmushi said:

For some reason in Vcczar's 2020 campaign i've found that if I change Trump's integrity and experience down to 2 & 3 respectively and simulate Biden V.S. Trump, Biden regularly breaks 500 EVs and 65% popular vote with a good Trump performance having him break 40%. While I wouldn't say that result is impossible I don't think it make sense as an average. If these results continued to the official 2020 campaign I feel like it would call for what is effectively a 1.5 integrity score. It also kind of depends on how much of a difference the change from 1-5 to 1-10 is for integrity scandals. 

I should raise Trump’s charisma to give him the Teflon factor that Bill Clinton had. 

[avatarmushi 6]

Just now, vcczar said:

I should raise Trump’s charisma to give him the Teflon factor that Bill Clinton had. 

I've always felt like spin would cover that, but I'm not sure what else there would be.

[RI Democrat 39]

I haven't followed this blog - are the ratings changing to a 1-10 scale in the next version instead of 1-5?

[ThePotatoWalrus 471]

9 hours ago, RI Democrat said:

I haven't followed this blog - are the ratings changing to a 1-10 scale in the next version instead of 1-5?

yep yep

[admin_270 839]

Thanks for posting this - some interesting results. The average Leadership (discarding Wiw's for these, as it seems to be an outlier) is just above 6. Average Charisma is just above 7. Average Integrity is just above 2.5.