ol' virginny

[Guest]

i think virginia is not optimal on the issues.

[Reagan04 515]

3 hours ago, dindu said:

i think virginia is not optimal on the issues.

How so?

[Patine 374]

50 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

How so?

Given this is koneke/dindu, I'm suspecting "optimal on the issues" would be much closer to the Antebellum issue centres from his viewpoint... :S

[ThePotatoWalrus 251]

7 hours ago, dindu said:

i think virginia is not optimal on the issues.

Lmaoo. Idek why but this post is so funny for some reason.

[Guest]

Virginia is 60% white and many whites are liberals in charlottesville and arlington, while the state in the game is center-right on many issues. virginny's rural white population might be right wing but their votes are swamped by non-whites and liberal urbanites...

[admin_270 525]

Yes, Virginia's issue centers perhaps could use some changes, as the state has moved to the center over the past while.

[Patine 374]

16 hours ago, dindu said:

Virginia is 60% white and many whites are liberals in charlottesville and arlington, while the state in the game is center-right on many issues. virginny's rural white population might be right wing but their votes are swamped by non-whites and liberal urbanites...

Of course this is the assumption that ALL non-Whites are "liberals" (or, at least, the distorted, warped, and misused definition of "liberal" many Americans and people whose political viewpoint is influenced by the common American zeitgeist of over-simplified political Manichaeiam buy into nowadays), and that the natural state of White voters, when not under "undue social influences and bad media" is to be "conservative" (again, in the faux definition of "conservative" analogous as for "liberal" above). But such an assumption I'd practically expect from koneke/dindu. The problem is, I'm seeing it more and more from people all over the place who are not as extreme and eager to buy into socio-political fairy tails, urban legends, and long-debunked myths as koneke/dindu, and that's what really worries me.

[Rarename91 0]

12 hours ago, Patine said:

Of course this is the assumption that ALL non-Whites are "liberals" (or, at least, the distorted, warped, and misused definition of "liberal" many Americans and people whose political viewpoint is influenced by the common American zeitgeist of over-simplified political Manichaeiam buy into nowadays), and that the natural state of White voters, when not under "undue social influences and bad media" is to be "conservative" (again, in the faux definition of "conservative" analogous as for "liberal" above). But such an assumption I'd practically expect from koneke/dindu. The problem is, I'm seeing it more and more from people all over the place who are not as extreme and eager to buy into socio-political fairy tails, urban legends, and long-debunked myths as koneke/dindu, and that's what really worries me.

@dindu explain Tim scott.

[Sunnymentoaddict 35]

19 minutes ago, Presidentinsertname said:

@dindu explain Tim scott.

He's my Senator, and I need help trying to explain him :P. 

Jest aside, there are outliars in general demographic trends. Jews overwhelmingly vote Democratic, yet Eric Cantor was once one of the highest ranking Republicans in the nation. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sunnymentoaddict said:

He's my Senator, and I need help trying to explain him :P. 

Jest aside, there are outliars in general demographic trends. Jews overwhelmingly vote Democratic, yet Eric Cantor was once one of the highest ranking Republicans in the nation. 

Orthodox jews are a clear outlier 

[admin_270 525]

Those numbers are interesting. If correct, they suggest that American Jews are quickly becoming American Orthodox Jews, especially when you combine it with fertility rates between Orthodox vs. secular and so on. Looks like a similar situation to Israel, where Orthodox have gone from minor to a significant part of the political landscape.

This article suggests something similar, giving more numbers.

[Patine 374]

7 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Orthodox jews are a clear outlier 

Of course, if the Republican party's foreign rhetoric weren't so hostile to their homelands and spreading fear about their religion and it's followers based largely on bad stereotypes and as through they were a unified hive bloc , U.S. Moslem CITIZENS (not illegal immigrants) of harder interpretations of their religions might be more inclined to support the GOP platform socially and economically otherwise.

[ThePotatoWalrus 251]

5 hours ago, Patine said:

U.S. Moslem CITIZENS (not illegal immigrants) of harder interpretations of their religions might be more inclined to support the GOP platform socially and economically otherwise.

Why do you always say it as 'moslem'? They're both technically correct as nouns, but as far as I know, only Muslim can be used as an adjective. The only other time I've seen 'Moslem' used is in these Trump groups I used to follow.

Not a Republican, but I don't think that the GOP is more hostile to Islam. Maybe the Democrats could do better if they appealed to Appalachian and Midwestern Americans? Even Texas went less than 10% in 2016, and by 2024, I can almost guarantee it will go under 5% (unless a really electable Republican is nominated) Yet the Dems continue to vilify the working class, and right-wingers.

[vcczar 941]

6 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Why do you always say it as 'moslem'? They're both technically correct as nouns, but as far as I know, only Muslim can be used as an adjective. The only other time I've seen 'Moslem' used is in these Trump groups I used to follow.

Not a Republican, but I don't think that the GOP is more hostile to Islam. Maybe the Democrats could do better if they appealed to Appalachian and Midwestern Americans? Even Texas went less than 10% in 2016, and by 2024, I can almost guarantee it will go under 5% (unless a really electable Republican is nominated) Yet the Dems continue to vilify the working class, and right-wingers.

I think they vilify right-wingers, but they don't vilify the working class, since the Democrats are more of a party of the working class than the Republicans, who also appeal to certain segments of the working class. I think it would be more accurate to say that Democrats vilify right-wingers, evangelicals, the 1%, and the willfully ignorant. Republicans vilify the working poor, minorities, scientists, the very educated. Obviously, this is stereotyping, however. 

In regards to "moslem," I never hear or see that word outside of historical texts. 

[ThePotatoWalrus 251]

1 minute ago, vcczar said:

I think it would be more accurate to say that Democrats vilify right-wingers, evangelicals, the 1%, and the willfully ignorant. Republicans vilify the working poor, minorities, scientists, the very educated

Democrats absolutely vilify the working class (except for immigrants). The last Democratic President to appeal to the working class was Bill Clinton. This is why Iowa, West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and many other states, including 'Blue Wall' stats such as Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, have turned more to the Republican isle. 

When Hillary said, "we're gonna put coal miners out of business", she locked in WV, and other states as Republican for the next two elections. 

I'll agree the Democrats used to be the pro-labor party, but as of the last four years, the Republicans have made big steps with trade, and outsourcing that they have become the ally of the working class.

[WVProgressive 45]

16 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Democrats absolutely vilify the working class (except for immigrants). The last Democratic President to appeal to the working class was Bill Clinton. This is why Iowa, West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and many other states, including 'Blue Wall' stats such as Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, have turned more to the Republican isle. 

He may have talked that way but he gave us NAFTA I remind you which absolutely sold out the workers in states with a manufacturing base such as Ohio

21 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

I'll agree the Democrats used to be the pro-labor party, but as of the last four years, the Republicans have made big steps with trade, and outsourcing that they have become the ally of the working class.

What big changes have the GOP did to lead you to the conclusion that they have shifted to a protectionist position only Trump really has made statements of this nature ( given in this area he's been a complete failure such as the renegotiation of NAFTA).

[vcczar 941]

24 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Democrats absolutely vilify the working class (except for immigrants). The last Democratic President to appeal to the working class was Bill Clinton. This is why Iowa, West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and many other states, including 'Blue Wall' stats such as Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, have turned more to the Republican isle. 

When Hillary said, "we're gonna put coal miners out of business", she locked in WV, and other states as Republican for the next two elections. 

I'll agree the Democrats used to be the pro-labor party, but as of the last four years, the Republicans have made big steps with trade, and outsourcing that they have become the ally of the working class.

Hillary Clinton's stupid comment doesn't represent the party as a whole. Republicans will be the working class party when the majority of the Labor Unions and other employments and worker's organizations vote Republican. Barack Obama was strongly for the working class, as was Joe Biden. The Republican attacks on minimum wage, healthcare, maternity leave, worker's protections, etc. is clear obvious they aren't a working class party. To put this a little too simplistically, but somewhat accurate, the Democrats are the party of the employees, and the Republicans are the party of the employer. The Working Class is the majority of the workers. The majority of workers--especially wage workers--vote Democrats. 

[Patine 374]

56 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Why do you always say it as 'moslem'? They're both technically correct as nouns, but as far as I know, only Muslim can be used as an adjective. The only other time I've seen 'Moslem' used is in these Trump groups I used to follow.

Not a Republican, but I don't think that the GOP is more hostile to Islam. Maybe the Democrats could do better if they appealed to Appalachian and Midwestern Americans? Even Texas went less than 10% in 2016, and by 2024, I can almost guarantee it will go under 5% (unless a really electable Republican is nominated) Yet the Dems continue to vilify the working class, and right-wingers.

 

44 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I think they vilify right-wingers, but they don't vilify the working class, since the Democrats are more of a party of the working class than the Republicans, who also appeal to certain segments of the working class. I think it would be more accurate to say that Democrats vilify right-wingers, evangelicals, the 1%, and the willfully ignorant. Republicans vilify the working poor, minorities, scientists, the very educated. Obviously, this is stereotyping, however. 

In regards to "moslem," I never hear or see that word outside of historical texts. 

Moslem is actually a direct Romanization of the Classical Arabic word used in the original description in the Quran for "one who submits (to Allah)," given Islam means in the same language "submission (to Allah)." Muslim is a Romanized form of a pronunciation derivation in Common Turkish that became commonly used in the hegemony of the Seljuq and Ottoman Turks, and became far more commonly used by non-Moslem Westerners than the word Moslem itself was (largely, initially, because the Crusades were in the day of Seljuq and early Ottoman Turkish hegemony), which is still (Moslem) the most self-identifier of Arab (and many other ethnicities) Moslems.

[ThePotatoWalrus 251]

2 hours ago, vcczar said:

The majority of workers--especially wage workers--vote Democrats. 

Is that why union households voted Republican in the Rust Belt?

[Reagan04 515]

3 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Democrats absolutely vilify the working class (except for immigrants). The last Democratic President to appeal to the working class was Bill Clinton. This is why Iowa, West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and many other states, including 'Blue Wall' stats such as Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, have turned more to the Republican isle. 

When Hillary said, "we're gonna put coal miners out of business", she locked in WV, and other states as Republican for the next two elections. 

I'll agree the Democrats used to be the pro-labor party, but as of the last four years, the Republicans have made big steps with trade, and outsourcing that they have become the ally of the working class.

Well, I have talked about this alot, Florida didn't decide the Presidential Election of 2000, that was a swing state, it could have gone either way. No, what changed the course of that election was instead a state that was predicted by every outlet to be safely for Al Gore but was carried by Bush by 6 points.... West Virginia. Al Gore's policy on the middle class and environment is what divorced WV from the Democrats. Had he carried West Virginia as all the networks said he would in a landslide, Florida would have been irrelevant. That is my favorite story of the Working Class throwing up in arms and changing the result of an election.

[Patine 374]

46 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Is that why union households voted Republican in the Rust Belt?

 

22 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

Well, I have talked about this alot, Florida didn't decide the Presidential Election of 2000, that was a swing state, it could have gone either way. No, what changed the course of that election was instead a state that was predicted by every outlet to be safely for Al Gore but was carried by Bush by 6 points.... West Virginia. Al Gore's policy on the middle class and environment is what divorced WV from the Democrats. Had he carried West Virginia as all the networks said he would in a landslide, Florida would have been irrelevant. That is my favorite story of the Working Class throwing up in arms and changing the result of an election.

This is how broken but entrenched a duopoly the U.S. has. The working class has some (legitimate) grievances with a fair number of Democratic candidates. However, because the system, in essence, binary, and most Americans have it drilled into their heads all their lives that only one of two parties can conceivably win and voting for a Third Party or Independent is automatically a wasted (so the rhetoric goes), the only choice of party these disgruntled working class voters have is one that wants to destroy labour unions, working place rights, and employee protections utterly and only empower and enrich the employers, especially the large corporate ones. That is - as Donald Trump's favourite disparaging term goes - SAD!

[Rarename91 0]

white nationalism as with any skin color nationalism cant work because of the fact that just because you got the same skin color you arent the same race.

[vcczar 941]

11 hours ago, Patine said:

 

Moslem is actually a direct Romanization of the Classical Arabic word used in the original description in the Quran for "one who submits (to Allah)," given Islam means in the same language "submission (to Allah)." Muslim is a Romanized form of a pronunciation derivation in Common Turkish that became commonly used in the hegemony of the Seljuq and Ottoman Turks, and became far more commonly used by non-Moslem Westerners than the word Moslem itself was (largely, initially, because the Crusades were in the day of Seljuq and early Ottoman Turkish hegemony), which is still (Moslem) the most self-identifier of Arab (and many other ethnicities) Moslems.

I have some Muslim friends and I've never heard them use the word Moslem to identify themselves. I'm not discounting that what you say is true. I just have no personal evidence for it. 

[vcczar 941]

9 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Is that why union households voted Republican in the Rust Belt?

I think that was more about Clinton often ignoring that region, and Trump focusing there and promising everything. Clinton certainly won more union households in every other region that has unions, by overwhelming numbers. Here's an article that does show that Trump gained more support for Union households than most Republicans, but you can see that Democrats are still the party of the Union Household: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/donald-trump-got-reagan-like-support-from-union-households/?utm_term=.c98410d2d813

[ThePotatoWalrus 251]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

I think that was more about Clinton often ignoring that region, and Trump focusing there and promising everything. Clinton certainly won more union households in every other region that has unions, by overwhelming numbers. Here's an article that does show that Trump gained more support for Union households than most Republicans, but you can see that Democrats are still the party of the Union Household: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/donald-trump-got-reagan-like-support-from-union-households/?utm_term=.c98410d2d813

If you look at CNN exit polls, they vote pretty good for Trump. Here's an example from Ohio. (Though, Ohio went pretty red so these are probably more over to the right than on the national level)