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WIP - Israel 1996


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  • 1 year later...
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2 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

I'm making some changes to this campaign and will then re-release it.

Why are you focusing on an election that the Israeli Knesset declared was actually unworkable after the second such election in 2001 - and almost certainly would have declared such in 1996 had the results been opposite of the historical ones? I think actual Knesset would be far more worth the effort to find a way to make work.

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Just now, Patine said:

Why are you focusing on an election that the Israeli Knesset declared was actually unworkable after the second such election in 2001 - and almost certainly would have declared such in 1996 had the results been opposite of the historical ones? I think actual Knesset would be far more worth the effort to find a way to make work.

Simple, I already did this one and am making some slight changes for historical accuracy

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Just now, Patine said:

But don't you my point on the whole failed electoral experiment itself?

Yes. If I make a Knesset election I'd probably code a seperate calculation app and convince @admin_270 to add it in as an optional feature until he gets it running natively.

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  • 2 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Ido said:

finally Peres can become PM for once

Yes, and be unable to get a working majority in the Knesset, which would have killed this bad electoral experiment in 1996, instead of waiting until 2001 to realize how unworkable the idea actually was and abolishing it...

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56 minutes ago, Ido said:

I know, was just memeing a little, Peres could have been a good PM if he could get a working government

Wasn't he nicnamed "the loser"

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Just now, NYrepublican said:

Wasn't he nicnamed "the loser"

yeah he was, but the problem is that he wasn't able to win the position of PM despite many attempts, for example he lost to Begin in the "Begin revolution" but he wasn't a bad politician, he is like *insert dream candidate from the US who didn't win*

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Just now, Ido said:

yeah he was, but the problem is that he wasn't able to win the position of PM despite many attempts, for example he lost to Begin in the "Begin revolution" but he wasn't a bad politician, he is like *insert dream candidate from the US who didn't win*

As you mentioned Begin Shir Hapalmach began playing in my head.(Which he was part of for a time.)

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in the 50's Begin was pretty radical, iirc he led a mega protest against Ben Gurion over Israel forgiving to West Germany, which also could be an issue with alot of profile and momentum in a potential scenario

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Just now, Ido said:

in the 50's Begin was pretty radical, iirc he led a mega protest against Ben Gurion over Israel forgiving to West Germany

Judaism doesn't exactly require you to forgive people who tried to kill you or forgive people no matter what. That's a distinctly Christian idea.

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1 minute ago, Ido said:

in the 50's Begin was pretty radical, iirc he led a mega protest against Ben Gurion over Israel forgiving to West Germany

And for goodness sake half the country lost all or most of their family and went through tremendous suffering due to the Germans OK?

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well i didn't give any opinions, just said the facts, i meant to say that Begin wasn't a nice-guy politician in the 50's he was the opposition

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3 minutes ago, Ido said:

well i didn't give any opinions, just said the facts, i meant to say that Begin wasn't a nice-guy politician in the 50's he was the opposition

"The job of the opposition is to propose nothing and oppose everything" -George Tierney

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3 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Judaism doesn't exactly require you to forgive people who tried to kill you or forgive people no matter what. That's a distinctly Christian idea.

You do, of course, realize, the West German government of Konrad Adenauer can't honestly be called "the government that tried to kill the Jews." Adenauer screened his cabinet members carefully to avoid Nazis, SS members, Gestapo members, high-ranking Wehrmacht officers, etc. from having representation in it at all (although a couple did get in, it was moreso because they were very good at hiding it and very quiet about, not because Adenauer tolerated them knowingly), and a few noteworthy members of Adenauer's government (like Finance Minister, and future Chancellor, Ludwig Erhard) were active members of the secret underground of GERMANS against the Nazis and the Holocaust during the war. To say that Adenauer's government could be conflated with Hitler's and viewed and treated the same, and expected the same of, would be like saying the same of Obama's and Trump's administrations, but to a significantly greater extreme.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

You do, of course, realize, the West German government of Konrad Adenauer can't honestly be called "the government that tried to kill the Jews." Adenauer screened his cabinet members carefully to avoid Nazis, SS members, Gestapo members, high-ranking Wehrmacht officers, etc. from having representation in it at all (although a couple did get in, it was moreso because they were very good at hiding it and very quiet about, not because Adenauer tolerated them knowingly), and a few noteworthy members of Adenauer's government (like Finance Minister, and future Chancellor, Ludwig Erhard) were active members of the secret underground of GERMANS against the Nazis and the Holocaust during the war. To say that Adenauer's government could be conflated with Hitler's and viewed and treated the same, and expected the same of, would be like saying the same of Obama's and Trump's administrations, but to a significantly greater extreme.

True but you do need to realize this was not long after the Holocaust emotions got involved.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

True but you do need to realize this was not long after the Holocaust emotions got involved.

Judaism has traditionally been a religion that promotes and emphasizes discipline, self-control, and clear-headed thinking, to a degree, in fact, among the world's biggest religions only matched by Taoism.

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Just now, Patine said:

Judaism has traditionally been a religion that promotes and emphasizes discipline, self-control, and clear-headed thinking, to a degree, in fact, among the world's biggest religions only matched by Taoism.

Judaism generally encourages it but it's up to the victim and the fact is that as much as some want to most are unable to.

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51 minutes ago, Ido said:

but the sheer scale and trauma of the Holocaust destroyed any semblance of discipline, emotions were high

Yes, emotions were high, fear and anger were at their height, a sense of betrayal and humiliation as a people ran high. The exact same situation that Hitler played upon among the German people to come to power in the first place. Do you see my point here, at all?

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well, the situations were very similiar in importance, but Begin certainly isn't an ultra-nationalist, at least not in 1977 when he got elected, i just said that in the 50's he wasn''t a nice guy politician

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