#44 Barack Obama Legacy

[vcczar 1,224]

@Patine @jvikings1 @Reagan04 @Dallas @Sanser2016 @CalebsParadox @lok1999 @jnewt @ThePotatoWalrus  @SiorafasNaCillini @servo75 @Presidentinsertname @Falcon @Take Me to La Riva @TheMiddlePolitical @Zach @Sunnymentoaddict @streiner @Conservative Elector 2 @Jayavarman @SeanFKennedy @QuickHead555 @goTBrays @warren2016 @victor1313 @TheLiberalKitten @Biden Should've Run @wolves @Socialist Bernie @Mordechai @michaelsdiamonds @chunkbuster11 @admin_270 @VanMav @pilight

Here's the new poll, which will be used towards a forum ranking. 

All previous presidents have polls in this forum with the number of their presidency before their name.

Please take these polls if you have not done so already. 

If anyone needs clarification/definition of an event/decision, then I'll be glad to provide one. 

****NOTE: IF YOU COULD NOT TAKE THE JAMES BUCHANAN POLL, PLEASE LOOK AT THE QUESTIONS AND LET ME KNOW WHICH EVENTS/DECISIONS (IF ANY) YOU AGREE WITH AS WELL AS YOUR ANSWERS TO QUESTION 2 and 3. You can PM me. THANKS! (I need one more vote)**** 

[vcczar 1,224]

Wish I could have added a few more things

[jnewt 37]

Republicans: I know you all hate Barack Obama the President, but how do you feel about Barack Obama the person?  I feel like he's sorta like W. Bush in the sense that even if you disagree with him on everything, he's easy to like, unlike most Presidents you disagree with. 

[Patine 468]

1 hour ago, jnewt said:

Republicans: I know you all hate Barack Obama the President, but how do you feel about Barack Obama the person?  I feel like he's sorta like W. Bush in the sense that even if you disagree with him on everything, he's easy to like, unlike most Presidents you disagree with. 

And he's very thick-skinned and statesmanlike.

[vcczar 1,224]

3 more votes, and then I'll have Trump's poll up. 

[vcczar 1,224]

I decided to add Trump's poll just to finish this up, but I still need 12 Obama votes. Additionally, it would be nice if you went back and voted on the presidents with whom you did not vote on previously. More on this later. 

[Bruce Fischer 1]

27 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I decided to add Trump's poll just to finish this up, but I still need 12 Obama votes. Additionally, it would be nice if you went back and voted on the presidents with whom you did not vote on previously. More on this later. 

Will you be writing a wrap-up post with the ranking and other interesting facts you found once the Trump poll has 12 votes?

[vcczar 1,224]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Fischer said:

Will you be writing a wrap-up post with the ranking and other interesting facts you found once the Trump poll has 12 votes?

Yeah, I'll have a communal ranking of the presidents, or rankings, rather, broken down into several kinds of lists. I'll also have individual lists for people that vote on every president. 

[Bruce Fischer 1]

2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Yeah, I'll have a communal ranking of the presidents, or rankings, rather, broken down into several kinds of lists. I'll also have individual lists for people that vote on every president. 

Cool! I'm pretty sure I've voted on all of them.

[Patine 468]

16 hours ago, vcczar said:

@Patine @jvikings1 @Reagan04 @Dallas @Sanser2016 @CalebsParadox @lok1999 @jnewt @ThePotatoWalrus  @SiorafasNaCillini @servo75 @Presidentinsertname @Falcon @Take Me to La Riva @TheMiddlePolitical @Zach @Sunnymentoaddict @streiner @Conservative Elector 2 @Jayavarman @SeanFKennedy @QuickHead555 @goTBrays @warren2016 @victor1313 @TheLiberalKitten @Biden Should've Run @wolves @Socialist Bernie @Mordechai @michaelsdiamonds @chunkbuster11 @admin_270 @VanMav @pilight

Here's the new poll, which will be used towards a forum ranking. 

All previous presidents have polls in this forum with the number of their presidency before their name.

Please take these polls if you have not done so already. 

If anyone needs clarification/definition of an event/decision, then I'll be glad to provide one. 

****NOTE: IF YOU COULD NOT TAKE THE JAMES BUCHANAN POLL, PLEASE LOOK AT THE QUESTIONS AND LET ME KNOW WHICH EVENTS/DECISIONS (IF ANY) YOU AGREE WITH AS WELL AS YOUR ANSWERS TO QUESTION 2 and 3. You can PM me. THANKS! (I need one more vote)**** 

To be clear, I didn't select Obamacare, not because I'm opposed to universal healthcare (in fact, I'm a big proponent of it), but because, whatever was initially intended when it ENTERED Congress was NOT, at all, universal healthcare like every other First World Country outside the Five Dragons know it, when it LEFT Congress - it was a monstrous, unworkable, unwieldy, unnecessarily overpriced, awkward jabberwocky and Frankenstein's monster of political compromise and pander to soulless insurance companies that exploited it freely by jacking up insurance prices astronomically. Second, I didn't select not intervening in Russian aggression in Georgia and Crimea, because frankly, given the situation, that was a "damned if you, damned if you don't" type of situation. As well, a note on American military historiography - you said Obama ended the Iraq War and Afghanistan War. He didn't. He just ended US involvement in those wars. The wars continued after that. Many American military historians view wars as beginning and ending as an absolute where US involvement begins and ends. For instance, many Americans think of the Vietnam War as going from 1965-1973 - truth is, it raged from 1954-1975 (from 1946 if you don't count Vietminh's independence struggle against French colonial masters as a separate war, which modern Vietnamese historians don't regard as separate). I've even heard some American historians (mostly in the past, but even recently) saying outright WW1 BEGAN, as war in it's entirety, in September 1917, and WW2 began likewise as BEGAN a WHOLE WAR in December 1941.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, jnewt said:

Republicans: I know you all hate Barack Obama the President, but how do you feel about Barack Obama the person?  I feel like he's sorta like W. Bush in the sense that even if you disagree with him on everything, he's easy to like, unlike most Presidents you disagree with. 

I think that he's a good person Like Bush 2 and Carter were.Though i have some major issues with his foreign policy.(though i'm more centrist/center-left on domestic issues in which case my views are similar to Giuliani's policy positions when he was NYC mayor).

[Patine 468]

1 hour ago, republicaninnyc said:

I think that he's a good person Like Bush 2 and Carter were.Though i have some major issues with his foreign policy.(though i'm more centrist/center-left on domestic issues in which case my views are similar to Giuliani's policy positions when he was NYC mayor).

That makes sense. No one whose hard-right on social or other domestic issues could realistically be elected Mayor of NYC in the modern day and age. Giuliani's most socially conservative project as Mayor I was aware of was putting municipal restrictions on the rising number of gay and fetish nightclubs (not even outlawing them or closing them down, though a number folded because of the fiscal difficulties caused by these restrictions).

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Patine said:

That makes sense. No one whose hard-right on social or other domestic issues could realistically be elected Mayor of NYC in the modern day and age. Giuliani's most socially conservative project as Mayor I was aware of was putting municipal restrictions on the rising number of gay and fetish nightclubs (not even outlawing them or closing them down, though a number folded because of the fiscal difficulties caused by these restrictions).

That was probably part of his zoning the strip clubs and things like that out of existence(they used to dominates times square).He probably didn't intentionally target them.

[servo75 30]

I can't respond to this poll because question 2 doesn't have a "none of the above" option.

[vcczar 1,224]

4 minutes ago, servo75 said:

I can't respond to this poll because question 2 doesn't have a "none of the above" option.

I didn't have room for it. Just pick the least offensive one, and I'll note this in the comments. 

[servo75 30]

On 4/21/2017 at 8:42 PM, jnewt said:

Republicans: I know you all hate Barack Obama the President, but how do you feel about Barack Obama the person?  I feel like he's sorta like W. Bush in the sense that even if you disagree with him on everything, he's easy to like, unlike most Presidents you disagree with. 

I'm not a Republican, but Obama doesn't pass the beer test for me.  Good people don't hate everything about their country, strive to "fundamentally transform America" undermine the fabric of America, the Constitution and the capitalist free-market system, talk down his citizens and bow to our enemies, and bring the tactics of Saul Alinsky, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis to the White House.  After eight years our economy was worse, our military depleted, our enemies didn't fear us, our allies didn't respect us, we've massively increased the welfare rolls, let in tens of thousands of unvetted refugees, double our national debt, caused another trillion in increased student loan debt and tax hikes, cost his party the House and Senate, enforced a failed government-controlled healthcare system on the country, oversaw a stagnant economy, saw decreased wages and home ownership,     The only difference between Obama and Woodrow Wilson is that Wilson's hatred was overt.

[Patine 468]

18 minutes ago, servo75 said:

I'm not a Republican, but Obama doesn't pass the beer test for me.  Good people don't hate everything about their country, strive to "fundamentally transform America" undermine the fabric of America, the Constitution and the capitalist free-market system, talk down his citizens and bow to our enemies, and bring the tactics of Saul Alinsky, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis to the White House.  After eight years our economy was worse, our military depleted, our enemies didn't fear us, our allies didn't respect us, we've massively increased the welfare rolls, let in tens of thousands of unvetted refugees, double our national debt, caused another trillion in increased student loan debt and tax hikes, cost his party the House and Senate, enforced a failed government-controlled healthcare system on the country, oversaw a stagnant economy, saw decreased wages and home ownership,     The only difference between Obama and Woodrow Wilson is that Wilson's hatred was overt.

This spiel is a classic example of a typical manipulative propaganda tactic - take a few nuggets of truth and unrealistically, dishonestly, and grossly inflate, exaggerate, and balloon them to huge proportions away from what those original facts started as, to make the target seem either much, much more horrible (as in this case) or exalted than is justifiably and actually the case.

[vcczar 1,224]

2 hours ago, servo75 said:

I'm not a Republican, but Obama doesn't pass the beer test for me.  Good people don't hate everything about their country, strive to "fundamentally transform America" undermine the fabric of America, the Constitution and the capitalist free-market system, talk down his citizens and bow to our enemies, and bring the tactics of Saul Alinsky, Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis to the White House.  After eight years our economy was worse, our military depleted, our enemies didn't fear us, our allies didn't respect us, we've massively increased the welfare rolls, let in tens of thousands of unvetted refugees, double our national debt, caused another trillion in increased student loan debt and tax hikes, cost his party the House and Senate, enforced a failed government-controlled healthcare system on the country, oversaw a stagnant economy, saw decreased wages and home ownership,     The only difference between Obama and Woodrow Wilson is that Wilson's hatred was overt.

Calm down, Alex Jones. 

[pilight 237]

6 hours ago, vcczar said:

Calm down, Alex Jones. 

@servo75 is a performance artist here to entertain us?