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After the UK Prime Minister announced a snap General Election


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6 minutes ago, koneke said:

I wasn't saying the Laissez-faire is the absolute truth. I said that in Anglo-Saxon countries Laissez IS the absolute truth. It is rather an observation not a commitment on my behalf to Laissez-faire.

About the welfare though.

Canada has one of the strictest immigration policies. The refugees who are coming to Canada are handpicked so it is the cream of the crop. The European countries doesn't have any say over what people come to their countries, so they are a much lower standard in terms of education et cetera.

Canada is considered, as a former British Dominion, and, like Australia and New Zealand, retains the British Monarch as our SYMBOLIC head-of-state through a Governor-General, but are completely independent in truth, is viewed as an "Anglo-Saxon" nation in it's foundations, and laissez-faire economics is not entirely the rule here.

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14 minutes ago, koneke said:

Check the stats for welfare usage by Africans in the US. Look at the Homicide rate for Africans in the US. It costs the US society lots of money.

If by "African" you mean African-American, oh please, get out. Look up the stats yourself, and no, Breitbart, InfoWars, and Donald Trump's twitter are not reputable sources for this (or any) information.

African-Americans are a part of  "US society." They, like Muslim-Americans, Asian-Americans, Irish-Americans (a group to which I belong), and any other people group that lives in America, are Americans (it's right there in the name) and it's despicable to me that you would consider them a burden on the United States. The fact that you don't even live here makes it worse, but even if you did, it's horrible.

I am very, very done with this argument now that it has turned in this direction.

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9 minutes ago, Bruce Fischer said:

If by "African" you mean African-American, oh please, get out. Look up the stats yourself, and no, Breitbart, InfoWars, and Donald Trump's twitter are not reputable sources for this (or any) information.

African-Americans are a part of  "US society." They, like Muslim-Americans, Asian-Americans, Irish-Americans (a group to which I belong), and any other people group that lives in America, are Americans (it's right there in the name) and it's despicable to me that you would consider them a burden on the United States. The fact that you don't even live here makes it worse, but even if you did, it's horrible.

I am very, very done with this argument now that it has turned in this direction.

 
 

I dislike the hyphens, we are all Americans. Theodore Roosevelt said: 

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all … The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic … There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

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5 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

I dislike the hyphens, we are all Americans. Theodore Roosevelt said: 

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all … The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic … There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

Wow! When you first posted here in 2015, I never thought I would see this quote from you posted on these forums, ever. Have you received an epiphany? :P 

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Just now, Patine said:

Wow! When you first posted here in 2015, I never thought I would see this quote from you posted on these forums, ever. Have you received an epiphany? :P 

How so sir, I've definitely refined into a more mature Paleocon then a Radical Fusionist, but I've always loved the melting pot.

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1 hour ago, Reagan04 said:

I dislike the hyphens, we are all Americans. Theodore Roosevelt said: 

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all … The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic … There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

Yep.  While it may have had a purpose before (to represent the unique African-American culture developed by slaves who were forced from their homes and brought to an unknown land), it isn't necessary now as times have changed quite a bit.

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2 hours ago, Bruce Fischer said:

A lot of refugees go to X country, and X country spends a lot on welfare does not mean that they're going there because that country has a lot of welfare. Correlation does not equal causation.

They're going to Sweden and Germany and other countries with robust welfare states for many reasons, I'm sure. For one, those seem to be the only ones that both accept them AND treat them remotely like human beings. Richer countries that have better job markets also, obviously, have better welfare states (except the US because we love freedom, including the freedom to die on the street if we can't find jobs).

Then you have millions of refugees that would like to come to the US (but can't because we have a horrible President and an even worse Congress), where the welfare system would be completely inaccessible to them unless they also contribute to it.

While maybe not for some, but there are lots of them who target the richer countries for these reasons.

Also, I would hardily call something a horrible policy if it is keeping potential terrorists out of the country.

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7 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

While maybe not for some, but there are lots of them who target the richer countries for these reasons.

Also, I would hardily call something a horrible policy if it is keeping potential terrorists out of the country.

Except, that REAL terrorists are a very small minority of potential refugees, and usually use a number of more-refined tricks to get into a target country than posing as a refugee when such policies are put up (the kind of tricks and cliches, in fact, that characters in James Bond, Jason Bourne, Mission Impossible, La Femme Nikita, and spyfi shows and films use to get across borders when they're not wanted).

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Just now, Patine said:

Except, that REAL terrorists are a very small minority of potential refugees, and usually use a number of more-refined tricks to get into a target country than posing as a refugee when such policies are put up (the kind of tricks and cliches, in fact, that characters in James Bond, Jason Bourne, Mission Impossible, La Femme Nikita, and spyfi shows and films use to get across borders when they're not wanted).

Except ISIS has stated that they will try and use the refugee program to infiltrate countries.  Some people involved in the Paris attacks came into Europe through the refugee program.  In German, there has been in uptick in crime from people who came into the country as refugees.

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Just now, jvikings1 said:

Except ISIS has stated that they will try and use the refugee program to infiltrate countries.  Some people involved in the Paris attacks came into Europe through the refugee program.  In German, there has been in uptick in crime from people who came into the country as refugees.

So ISIS PUBLICALLY declared that, and made a few shows of their intention, but you actually BELIEVE that is the ONLY tactic they will use, and the fact that various national security groups strongly focusing on that tactic (like you seem to be) while they get others in my more insidious and covert means doesn't at all strike you at all as a good "one-two-punch" combo or a good distraction technique?

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52 minutes ago, Patine said:

So ISIS PUBLICALLY declared that, and made a few shows of their intention, but you actually BELIEVE that is the ONLY tactic they will use, and the fact that various national security groups strongly focusing on that tactic (like you seem to be) while they get others in my more insidious and covert means doesn't at all strike you at all as a good "one-two-punch" combo or a good distraction technique?

No, I don't believe that it is the only intention.  But, that doesn't mean other means of them getting in shouldn't be closed.  The way terrorists get through is by sneaking in with those who do not have the documentation to be properly vetted.  Leaders in the intelligence service in the US have stated that refugees from Syria cannot be adequately vetted.  As a result, potential terrorists could slip through if let in.

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11 hours ago, Bruce Fischer said:

Seeing as the number of people who hold African citizenship is not especially high in the US, I can't imagine they're that high.

It is about 13% but they commit about 50% of all homicides and also takes up welfare vastly disproportionately.

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11 hours ago, Patine said:

Canada is considered, as a former British Dominion, and, like Australia and New Zealand, retains the British Monarch as our SYMBOLIC head-of-state through a Governor-General, but are completely independent in truth, is viewed as an "Anglo-Saxon" nation in it's foundations, and laissez-faire economics is not entirely the rule here.

I said that in countries with a huge majority of people who were of Anglo-Saxon ethnicity or descent they tended to be very much in favor of Laissez-faire as an economic model. It is a generalisation and is only a rule of thumb.

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12 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

I dislike the hyphens, we are all Americans. Theodore Roosevelt said: 

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all … The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic … There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

It ignores the fact that the founders of the USA was disproportionately from the British Isles. For the most part of the history of the USA the WASP was the vast majority in demographics and in terms of political power.

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14 hours ago, jvikings1 said:

Except ISIS has stated that they will try and use the refugee program to infiltrate countries.

I wouldn't consider ISIS a very reputable source. If they were targeting refugee programs they wouldn't say so. Their goal is to scare other countries into refusing to accept refugees, thus leaving them in their home country where ISIS can tell them how evil the other countries are for ignoring their plight.

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3 hours ago, SirLagsalott said:

I wouldn't consider ISIS a very reputable source. If they were targeting refugee programs they wouldn't say so. Their goal is to scare other countries into refusing to accept refugees, thus leaving them in their home country where ISIS can tell them how evil the other countries are for ignoring their plight.

One of the terrorists in Paris came in as a refugee, which refute your claim that it is false.

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11 hours ago, koneke said:

I said that in countries with a huge majority of people who were of Anglo-Saxon ethnicity or descent they tended to be very much in favor of Laissez-faire as an economic model. It is a generalisation and is only a rule of thumb.

This is not what you said at all. You're words were "That is the Anglo-saxon way of handling economics, Laissez-faire is the absolute truth.," as taken EXACTLY from your post. That doesn't sound at all like a generalization or a rule of thumb, it sounds like an absolute statement.

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1 hour ago, koneke said:

One of the terrorists in Paris came in as a refugee, which refute your claim that it is false.

So one example completely and utterly, without any possible chance of mistake or miscalculation at all, refutes the whole prospect of any deception, distraction, or manipulation by ISIS in the long term? You must be a babe in the woods about such politics...

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8 minutes ago, Patine said:

So one example completely and utterly, without any possible chance of mistake or miscalculation at all, refutes the whole prospect of any deception, distraction, or manipulation by ISIS in the long term? You must be a babe in the woods about such politics...

the attack in wurzburg was done by an afghani refugee who swore allegiance to IS

Quote

German authorities later discovered evidence showing that the perpetrator, identified as Riaz Khan Ahmadzai, was in contact with a suspected Islamic State member in Saudi Arabia and had originally been asked to drive a car into a crowd of people. Ahmadzai declined this suggestion as he was not able to drive the car.[15] Instead, he told his contact that he would plan and carry out a train attack.[16]

Quote

On 18 July 2016, a 17-year-old asylum seeker injured four people, two critically, with a knife and hatchet on a train near Würzburg in Germany.[1] A fifth person was injured outside.[2][3][4] The state office of criminal investigations called it a terrorist attack with an Islamist religious motive.[5] The attacker's Islamic State instructor "ordered" him "to use an axe rather than a knife in his attack."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Würzburg_train_attack

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5 minutes ago, koneke said:

the attack in wurzburg was done by an afghani refugee who swore allegiance to IS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Würzburg_train_attack

But you've said nothing about this one example COMPLETLY refutes the longer-term tactic that @SirLagsalott and I, and a fair number of others, believe may be a much broader, more deceptive, more manipulative plan that does involve the fear and screening of refugees and the raising of draconian, knee-jerk reactionary, fear-based policies and laws, and the resources put therein moved away from more covert and insidious infiltration techniques to get better trained "professional" terrorists in by other channels, and to play upon such polices hitting refugees when they eventually get sent home and fall under the complete power ISIS and other groups, who can easily villainize the West to them. But, hey, I guess this ONE SINGLE example means that's completely out of the question and ISIS has openly and honestly laid out there complete, undisguised plans for all see, and that be relied upon as the only plan there indefinitely.

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25 minutes ago, Patine said:

But you've said nothing about this one example COMPLETLY refutes the longer-term tactic that @SirLagsalott and I, and a fair number of others, believe may be a much broader, more deceptive, more manipulative plan that does involve the fear and screening of refugees and the raising of draconian, knee-jerk reactionary, fear-based policies and laws, and the resources put therein moved away from more covert and insidious infiltration techniques to get better trained "professional" terrorists in by other channels, and to play upon such polices hitting refugees when they eventually get sent home and fall under the complete power ISIS and other groups, who can easily villainize the West to them. But, hey, I guess this ONE SINGLE example means that's completely out of the question and ISIS has openly and honestly laid out there complete, undisguised plans for all see, and that be relied upon as the only plan there indefinitely.

Even if 99.9% of the people are good, that allows 10 terrorists into the country with 10,000 people.  Even though there is a low probability using this example, it could lead to the possibility of massive damage inflicted.

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1 hour ago, jvikings1 said:

Even if 99.9% of the people are good, that allows 10 terrorists into the country with 10,000 people.  Even though there is a low probability using this example, it could lead to the possibility of massive damage inflicted.

Yes, I know this, but I'm correcting him that we could rest assured and feel secure at taking ISIS' declaration at face value that that is their only tactic in this regard and that they don't likely have a broader plan to make use of the fallout and consequences inherent to such policies for their own ends.

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14 hours ago, Patine said:

Yes, I know this, but I'm correcting him that we could rest assured and feel secure at taking ISIS' declaration at face value that that is their only tactic in this regard and that they don't likely have a broader plan to make use of the fallout and consequences inherent to such policies for their own ends.

Also these refugees are ruining the West economically and demographically.

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