sven 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 This is a thread for the trilogy of World Government 2005 scenarios. Work has already begun on a number of areas. The map is ready, and can be very quickly amended according to how we work out regions. I am currently working on the Global Senate. This will include 1 Senator from each country, and will probably result in a lot more campaigning in places like the Pacific Islands and West Africa. Work on the Presidential scenario is already off and racing. The EVs for each region have been worked out, and most of the regional_variables file has been done. The first thing to complete should probably be those elements which will be common to all three scenarios: -Party logos - Myke is doing great with these, but they aren't finished yet. Depending on how you define it, 2 or 3 out of 4 are done. -Parties - At the moment it looks like our four parties will be Conservative, Liberal, Social Democrat and Islamist. We need to work out which national parties will be part of which global parties. I've already started on this. If you have a particular knowledge of a country, then please contribute with ideas. Obviously Canada and the US need to be done and we need people to do them, but it's particularly valuable if you have knowledge of the political scene in a more obscure country. -Election date - This doesn't require much work. I might look and see what day of the week India (the world's largest democracy) holds their elections, and hold it then. -Election issues - These should probably be the same for all three. A few of the Cold War issues could be used, but there would be many that would be very different. -Candidates - It might be good to have a large pool of candidates that can be used in any of the scenarios. I'm gonna keep working on the Senate scenario, and I'll ask for help when the time comes to get around to things like the names of Senatorial candidates. Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I think the election should be Monday, 7 March 2005, with a 2-month campaign. Link to post Share on other sites
JoSpiv 5 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 why March 7th? just asking Also, amazing work man. I really can't wait. Link to post Share on other sites
1876 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 List of Possible world leaders: Conservative – moderately right George W. Bush - US Silvio Berlusconi - Italy Jacques Chirac - France Vladimir Putin - Russia John Howard - Australia Pervez Musharref - Pakistan Hamid Karzai - Afghanistan Arial Sharon - Israel Liberal – moderately left Tony Blair - England Gerhard Schroeder - Germany Bill Clinton – US Vaclev Havel – Czech Republic Atal Behari Vajpayee - India Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono - Indonesia Victor Youschenko - Ukraine Social Democrat – far left Jose Zaptero – Spain Manmohan Singh - India Wen Jaibo - China Luiz Lula de Silvia - Brazil Islamicist – far right Abdullah II – Jordan (Moderate) Seif al-Islam al-Qaddafi – Lybia (Moderate) Ali Khamenei – Iran Link to post Share on other sites
Myke 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I don't think Bush would be considered a real contender for a world government, to be completely frank... I could list the countries who hate him with a firey, burning passion, but I think these posts have length limits. Maybe Colin Powell instead? He's pretty beloved. Link to post Share on other sites
1876 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I could see Colin. Link to post Share on other sites
Myke 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 On the logos... Islam: I've heard no complaints about this one, so I assume it's likely to stick around. The other two I've done have gotten mixed reactions, and we'll need to decide what we're doing. Liberal: or Socialist (The red star) was a misunderstanding on my part, so I'm going to assume we've ditched it. I've still got nothing for conservativism... Anyone got ideas for either? Link to post Share on other sites
1876 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 As far as the issues, I usually try to break them up into three catagories: Foreign (in this case, national), Economic, and Social. It makes it more enjoyable to have a large swath of issues to run on. So, here's a possible list: National Kyoto United Nations National Sovereignty Terrorism Nuclear Weapons International Peace Keeping Economic Free Trade Immigration WTO Energy Debt Relief Industrialization Social AIDS Relief Religious Fundamentalism Human Rights ICC Crimes Against Humanity (Serbia, ME, Darfur, etc.) Human Cloning And now, I really must get back to finals. Link to post Share on other sites
cycloneprime 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I think that the best for the conservatives would be a big "C", or a greek statue... Link to post Share on other sites
MattyN 2 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 The National Conservative Party of the US's website is: http://www.conservatives.com/ Their logo is the statue of liberty's hand. That's NY Conservative Party logo. What's the Canadian Conservative Party's logo? Link to post Share on other sites
Myke 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 A C with a maple leaf in the middle. My conern with using logos from one party from one country or another is that the logo is supposed to represent the system of thoughts of the entire world, not just one national party. :-/ Link to post Share on other sites
MattyN 2 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Very true. A steady torch with a C behind it may not be that bad. No one holding the torch, perhaps? Another idea is to come up with symbols of Conservative values, such as crosses, the baby for the Right to Life logo... Here are some other international conservative logos: American Welsh Scottish Canadian Another American Conservative Symbol Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm currently working my way through the Global Senate scenario. If people want to contribute how each country should be broken up, please do. For now I've been using the Canadian Conservative logo with the maple leaf erased, but that's only being used temporarily until we can come up with something better. I was thinking that the basis of the three democratic parties should be using these international organisations: http://www.idu.org/ - Conservative Party http://www.liberal-international.org/ - Liberal Party http://www.socialistinternational.org/ - Social Democratic Party - bear in mind that, in countries such as Britain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, where the SI-affiliated party is one of the 'big two', these parties have swung rightward, and their more right-wing members, usually including their leaders, would fit better in the Liberal Party. http://www.globalgreens.info/ - Social Democrats - as much as it pains me, as a Green, to not have our own party, they probably belong best in the SDP. If we were allowed more parties, it would be good to have a Greens party, and also possibly Christian and Hindu parties separate from the Conservatives? Myke, you may like to look at the SI and IDU logos. They may work. With the issues many of them look good. I'm not sure about "United Nations", maybe "National Powers", but that conflicts with "National Sovereignty". I'm thinking here that this world government would be getting new powers, so there'd be arguments over control of taxation, military etc. And by the way, Conservatives couldn't use the cross. It would also include Likud in Israel and the Hindu Nationalists. On the issue of candidates, I have a few suggestions: -Move Vajpayee to Conservative. Hindu nationalism doesn't fit into the Liberal movement. -Maybe Sonia Gandhi for the Liberal Party? -Hugo Chavez for the Social Democratic Party -Osama bin Laden for Islamist Party, and maybe one of the leaders of Hamas? -Hu Jintao for the Conservative Party. China has shifted to the right to the point where, while retaining the authoritarianism of the past, economic policies demonstrate that Chinese Communism is nothing more than a brand name. But maybe put Fidel Castro as a Social Democrat (regardless of the fact that he's not a democrat) -Move Schroeder from Liberal to Social Democrat -Put Joschka Fischer in the Social Democratic Party Link to post Share on other sites
Go Ralph! 0 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think it's a touch unfair for the only extreme-right wingers to be Islamic. There are other examples of extreme right wingers in the world, such as Kim Jong-Il, Robert Mugabe, Jean-Marie Le Pen etc... And I don't think the UN logo is really representative of liberals - you're thinking in terms of American politics here, just because US liberals tend to support the UN, it doesn't mean that other world liberals do, and other world conservatives don't. Otherwise, this is looking and sounding very good! Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Robert Mugabe would probably fit into the Socialist party, and Kim Jong-Il too, as extreme versions of that party, while Le Pen would be a Conservative. But I'm not sure any of them would be high-profile enough to be running for President of the world or leading their parties in the Senate or House of Representatives. They may run for the Senate or House of Reps however... Link to post Share on other sites
Go Ralph! 0 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Those I mentioned are not right wing in the economic sense but most definatly are in terms of social issues. The Islamic leaders you mentioned are the same - none of them run completly free markets, advocate big business and support privatization. Le Pen is not a Conservative, he's bordering on fascist. And I'd say that Kim-Jong Il was a pretty big name, he's been singled out by Bush many times, and is certainly a bigger name than Atal Behari Vajpayee. Also, Zapatero isn't an extreme leftist - though his party is called the Socialists, they are more similar to Tony Blair and his "Third Way" centerist politics. Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 The Social Democrats are not "extreme leftist". Indeed I said that I think Schroeder would fit into them. In fact, apart from the Chinese PM, you would consider none of them to be "extreme", including Chavez, Lula, Schroeder, Fischer, Singh (who I would place most definitely in Liberal, not SD), etc. If we had more parties, maybe we would have Le Pen as part of a far-right group which wants to dismantle the World Government. But we've only got four, so he's in the Conservative party. While you may say that Kim Jong-Il may have a bigger profile in the west, Vajpayee was Prime Minister of the world's largest democracy, which takes in 1/6 of the world's population. A strong Indian leader may be able to carry a region which has 301 out of 1501 electoral votes. That's pretty big the way I see it. The way we've been judging Communist parties is on their economic policies. Their social policies could probably be judged by "whatever it takes to stay in power". So you can look at their economics. North Korea is still very much isolated economically, while China has almost converted to a capitalist society. If we had maybe 8 parties to play with, I'd do these ones: -Liberal -Conservative -Social Democrat -Green -Nationalist (Le Pen, UKIP type) -Islamist -Christian -Hindu (the last one I'm not so sure about) Link to post Share on other sites
Myke 1 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I haven't been able to find an IDU logo in a format suitable that I can use... Most of them are integrated into the site, or on flags, or just too small, etc. As for Socialism... Link to post Share on other sites
MattyN 2 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Why not just make a similar globe-like logo for the Conservatives... or try taking something like this: It has that checked globe part on the one side...that's the style of the IDU's logo...But, I don't know. Myke, you've been doing awesome so far. Link to post Share on other sites
Myke 1 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Doesn't look like much... I can't crop out the white inside the globe because some of it's along a gradient (it fades into the other stuff gradually... I can't crop that out because there's no way to do it without losing the other stuff fading in over it), and it would just look incredibly weird if half of it's gone but half of it's there. Link to post Share on other sites
MattyN 2 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 That's hot, Myke. Again, you're awesome at this. Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 By the way, the reason why I suggested the Liberals use the UN logo, is because Liberal and Conservatives are generally more likely to integrate the map or flag of their country into their logo, and since this country is the world... Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I think we have finally got the logos for our parties. 1. Rose - Social Democrat 2. Globe - Conservative 3. UN - Liberal 4. Star and Crescent - Islamist I'm gonna put them into my Senate version, and I think we move on to the next issue now. Link to post Share on other sites
sven 1 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Issues: I'm gonna work off the good start that we've already got. Kyoto United Nations Structure (is it nation-dominated or population-dominated? Leftists would support more power on basis of population ie. HoR over Senate) National Powers - things like Taxation, Military, etc. Terrorism Nuclear Weapons International Peace Keeping Trade -Protectionism should be supported. -Allow only poor countries to protect industry. -Allow certain types of protection for countries. -Scrap all tariffs, but keep some subsidies. -Absolute free trade throughout the world. Migration Energy Redistribution (ie. between nations) Industrialization Workers' Rights -Raise minimum wage to OECD levels. - -Leave it up to each country - -Scrap worker protections. AIDS Relief Religious Freedom Human Rights International Criminal Court Crimes Against Humanity (Serbia, ME, Darfur, etc.) Human Cloning Link to post Share on other sites
hillary'08 0 Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 I don't think Bush would be considered a real contender for a world government, to be completely frank... I could list the countries who hate him with a firey, burning passion, but I think these posts have length limits. Maybe Colin Powell instead? He's pretty beloved. hey, if nobody likes bush in the world, (which nobody should) he can just be a really weak candidate, right? Link to post Share on other sites
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