ScottM 111 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I've been reading the book 1920 by David Pietrusza on my Kindle, and I'm thinking about creating a 1920 scenario. Granted, it was by no means a close election, but with 6 former, current, or future Presidents involved, it certainly could be interesting. Harding - He, of course, won the election. Coolidge - Was elected Vice President, and became President upon Harding's death. Wilson - Incapacitated at the time of the election, Wilson nonetheless had hopes that a dead-locked convention might still choose him. T. Roosevelt - Before his death in 1919, he was considered a lock to win the Republican nomination. FDR - James Cox's running mate in 1920, and even mentioned by some as a potential candidate himself. Hoover - Some believed at the time that had Hoover played his cards correctly, he would have been assured of the nomination of one of the parties. Even though he did not seek the nomination in 1920, even Taft received some votes in the Republican primaries that year. There could be challenges for each party as well. Obviously the challenge playing as the Democrats would be to try to win the election, but for the Republicans, it might be making gains in the South. So, would anyone be interested in seeing this scenario? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 OK, so it looks like there is some support for the idea, so I'll start tossing out some thoughts about it. I'm going to create this for P4E 2008 right now and probably for P4E12 when it's completed. I'm starting with candidates, and here's what I'm starting with for candidate stats: E=Experience, L=Leadership, I=Integrity, D=Debating, I-K=Issue Knowledge, S=Stamina, C=Charisma Republicans Warren G. Harding: 3 E, 3 L, 2 I, 3 D, 2 I-K, 3 S, 4 C Leonard Wood: 2 E, 4 L, 3 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Frank Orren Lowden: 3 E, 4 L, 3 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 4 C Hiram Johnson: 4 E, 3 L, 3 I, 2 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 3 C William Cameron Sproul: 2 E, 3 L, 4 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 4 S, 3 C Nicholas Murray Butler: 2 E, 4 L, 5 I, 2 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Calvin Coolidge: 4 E, 4 L, 5 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 2 C Robert La Follette: 3 E, 4 L, 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 5 C Theodore Roosevelt: 5 E, 4 L 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 2 S, 4 C (default off - included "what if he hadn't died?") Herbert Hoover: 2 E, 4 L, 5 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 4 S, 2 C (haven't decided whether to have him on or off by default) Democrats James Cox: 4 E, 3 L, 3 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 5 S, 3 C William Gibbs McAdoo: 3 E, 5 L, 3 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 2 S, 3 C Alexander Mitchell Palmer: 2 E, 3 L, 4 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Al Smith: 2 E, 4 L, 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 4 C John W. Davis: 3 E, 3 L, 4 I, 5 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 3 C Edward I. Edwards: 2 E, 3 L, 3 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Woodrow Wilson: 5 E, 3 L, 3 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 1 S (best way I could think of to simulate his immobility), 4 C (undecided if he will be on or off by default) William Jennings Bryan: 4 E, 3 L, 4 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 4 C (similar to Wilson, he hoped that a deadlocked convention might lead to his nomination; probably off by default) Socialist Eugene V. Debs: 2 E, 4 L, 3 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 1 S (to simulate his imprisonment), 5 C All other minor party candidates will probably have 1 Experience and 3 in all other stats. Right now, I consider this to be very much up for debate, a lot of the stats can be described as "guesses." If you think I'm wrong on some of them tell me why and I'll take that into consideration. Also, if you wonder why I gave a particular candidate a particular stat, ask and I'll be glad to answer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patine 444 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 OK, so it looks like there is some support for the idea, so I'll start tossing out some thoughts about it. I'm going to create this for P4E 2008 right now and probably for P4E12 when it's completed. I'm starting with candidates, and here's what I'm starting with for candidate stats: E=Experience, L=Leadership, I=Integrity, D=Debating, I-K=Issue Knowledge, S=Stamina, C=Charisma Republicans Warren G. Harding: 3 E, 3 L, 2 I, 3 D, 2 I-K, 3 S, 4 C Leonard Wood: 2 E, 4 L, 3 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Frank Orren Lowden: 3 E, 4 L, 4 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 4 C Hiram Johnson: 4 E, 3 L, 3 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 3 C William Cameron Sproul: 2 E, 3 L, 4 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 4 S, 3 C Nicholas Murray Butler: 2 E, 4 L, 5 I, 2 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Calvin Coolidge: 4 E, 4 L, 5 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 2 C Robert La Follette: 3 E, 4 L, 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 5 C Theodore Roosevelt: 5 E, 4 L 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 2 S, 4 C (default off - included "what if he hadn't died?") Herbert Hoover: 2 E, 4 L, 5 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 4 S, 2 C (haven't decided whether to have him on or off by default) Democrats James Cox: 4 E, 3 L, 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 3 C William Gibbs McAdoo: 3 E, 3 L, 3 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Alexander Mitchell Palmer: 2 E, 3 L, 4 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Al Smith: 2 E, 4 L, 4 I, 3 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 4 C John W. Davis: 3 E, 3 L, 4 I, 5 D, 4 I-K, 4 S, 3 C Edward I. Edwards: 2 E, 3 L, 3 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 3 S, 3 C Woodrow Wilson: 5 E, 3 L, 3 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 1 S (best way I could think of to simulate his immobility), 4 C (undecided if he will be on or off by default) William Jennings Bryan: 4 E, 3 L, 4 I, 4 D, 4 I-K, 3 S, 4 C (similar to Wilson, he hoped that a deadlocked convention might lead to his nomination; probably off by default) Socialist Eugene V. Debs: 2 E, 4 L, 3 I, 3 D, 3 I-K, 1 S (to simulate his imprisonment), 4 C All other minor party candidates will probably have 1 Experience and 3 in all other stats. Right now, I consider this to be very much up for debate, a lot of the stats can be described as "guesses." If you think I'm wrong on some of them tell me why and I'll take that into consideration. Also, if you wonder why I gave a particular candidate a particular stat, ask and I'll be glad to answer. This looks like a very good idea! I'd also suggest the Prohibition Party (I can't remember their candidate in 1920 off the top of my head). Some issues could include: -Banking -Conservation -Industry -Latin America -League of Nations -Military -Philippines -Prohibition -Railways -Treaty of Versailles I hope this gets off the ground. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 This looks like a very good idea! I'd also suggest the Prohibition Party (I can't remember their candidate in 1920 off the top of my head). Some issues could include: -Banking -Conservation -Industry -Latin America -League of Nations -Military -Philippines -Prohibition -Railways -Treaty of Versailles I hope this gets off the ground. Yeah, they'll be in there. There were few enough minor party candidates that they can all be easily included. Even the American Party candidate who was only on the ballot in Texas got about 9% of the vote there, so I even plan to include him. IIRC, the Prohibition candidate's name was Watkins. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LumineVonReuental 2 Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I think it's a very interesting choice (this and a 1948 scenario would be awesome!), but I have two doubts: 1, Is there a way of recreating the "smoke filled room" at the convention? And 2, would a La Follette third party candidacy (like in 1924) be realistic enough to be in the scenario? (Like Huey Long in the 1936 one) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I think it's a very interesting choice (this and a 1948 scenario would be awesome!), but I have two doubts: 1, Is there a way of recreating the "smoke filled room" at the convention? And 2, would a La Follette third party candidacy (like in 1924) be realistic enough to be in the scenario? (Like Huey Long in the 1936 one) I'm going to play around with candidate relationships to try to simulate the smoke-filled room. If anyone has any other ideas, I'm open to the them, though. As for a third party break, I think Hiram Johnson would have been more likely than La Follette. Johnson actually threatened to break from the party if they nominated the "wrong" candidate over the League of Nations issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 A few updates to candidate stats: Lowden Integrity now at 3 Johnson Integrity now at 2 Cox Integrity now at 3 McAdoo Stamina now at 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Abe Lincoln 9 Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Would love to be able to play as Debs! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Debs Charisma now raised to 5. More possible issues: Tarriffs Immigration Hawaii Irish Independence Minimum Wage Child Labor Assuming all issues mentioned so far are used, two more are needed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm looking for a bit of help on this now. Does anybody have a source that tells how many delegates each State had at each party's convention? New issue: Red Scare Update: I found the delegate information for the Republicans, but I still need the Democrat numbers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Potential issue list: Banking Conservation Industry Latin America League of Nations Military Philippines Prohibition Railways Treaty of Versailles Tarriffs Immigration Hawaii Irish Independence Minimum Wage Child Labor Cost of Living (inflation) Suffrage Any suggestions? Should suffrage even be included since the 19th amendment was ratified during the campaign? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LumineVonReuental 2 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hmmmm... In my opinion, suffrage should be an issue, considering the effect that it would have on female voters... As a suggestion, what about using the Pro Irish political groups as endorsers? I've heard they contributed with money to both parties in the general election. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's a definite possibility. I haven't started putting together endorser lists yet, but I'll keep that in mind for sure. And keep the ideas coming. I want to make this the best scenario I can, so all help is greatly appreciated! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Cox's stamina is now 5. I've begun working on an endorsers list, so I'm looking for suggestions there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 A bit of an update: I haven't forgotten this, but I've had an incredibly busy week and no time for it. I'm gonna try to get back to it though. Anyone have any suggestions or want to make some contributions to it though? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Democrat 9 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 McAdoo should have his experience upped to 4(he had Wilson's ear and his daughter) leadership upped to 5 (For completely and successfully reorganizing the US economy) and integrity lowered to 2 (KKK connections) IMO. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 McAdoo's leadership upped to 5. I'm not convinced the personal connections are in themselves enough to increase his experience rating, but I could still possibly be convinced. As for the KKK connections, I know he received and refused to repudiate the Klan's endorsement in 1924, but were connections known in 1920? His connections to Wilson would make it seem possible, though I don't remember reading about publicly known connections in 1920. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardJarvis 0 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 How's this going, because it looks like a really cool little scenario! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 How's this going, because it looks like a really cool little scenario! Very slowly. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to give to it lately. Between being super busy with church and work, having a death in the family, dental work, various personal issues, and so on, I've been greatly slowed down with it. That said, if anyone wants to volunteer any assistance, I'd gladly accept! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardJarvis 0 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Very slowly. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to give to it lately. Between being super busy with church and work, having a death in the family, dental work, various personal issues, and so on, I've been greatly slowed down with it. That said, if anyone wants to volunteer any assistance, I'd gladly accept! I'm probably completely useless, but if need anything, just tell me and I'll try to help with it. I'd definitely be willing to do any testing later on! I could work on the political positions, if you need any assistance with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lahbas 4 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I could use a reprieve from working on the other scenario I am currently tinkering with. If you send me what you have I'll work on it and send back what I've done, likely with a notepad of opinions, in several days. Though I am not all that good with issues, unfortunately. jamesrobertmclaughlin@yahoo.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I have an Excel spreadsheet that has a lot of the information for the scenario on it. I can send that to you if you like. The biggest things now are going to be defining issue positions and candidate positions, but the endorsers need to be expanded as well. I'll be open to any suggestions though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardJarvis 0 Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I have an Excel spreadsheet that has a lot of the information for the scenario on it. I can send that to you if you like. The biggest things now are going to be defining issue positions and candidate positions, but the endorsers need to be expanded as well. I'll be open to any suggestions though. Since school's almost out, I should have a bit of free time to help. lrdvdr2007@yahoo.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 I've got some more information that I'm adding to the spreadsheet then I'll send it out to you guys. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottM 111 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 OK, I just sent the spreadsheet to both of you. Take a look at it and see what you think. Thanks for your help! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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