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President Forever 2012 Announced!


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this just kind of pop in my heads as I was putting in more VP candidates for 2008 advance.... it not really a big idea but I think it needed... I think like you have for presidential candidates, you have a option of a title such as governor, Senator etc... i think that option should be included for VP... also think you should i have an option of creating a description for that VP.... another thing I think needs to be added is the option to put a pic for that VP candidate instead of just pic that veep... just some ideas and think it would be easy implement... thanks

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Of all the great things about the game, I had two issues with P4E08 that I hope are addressed in this sequel; I hope they haven't been brought up already (if they have, I would appreciate it if somebody could provide a link or quote to it :) )

Firstly, one of the few annoying things about P4E08 (mostly a great game) was that underdog candidates would start off with such a huge disadvantage in the general election. For instance, I know Ron Paul would not be as strong against Barack Obama as John McCain, but last time I played as him, Obama won +70% of the vote. Sure, I don't expect Paul to make California a swing state, but I think it is unrealistic for him to start behind Obama in Utah by double digits. After all, there is a significant portion of the population that will vote for a candidate simply because of their party. Certainly Utah shouldn't be 100% guaranteed for the Republican, but it would take a lot more than the nomination of an underdog to make it competitive.

Secondly, I was annoyed that the general election map was always be somewhat similar no matter who the nominee was. For example, Mike Huckabee seems to be just as likely to win New Hampshire as Mitt Romney in the game. We know that would not be the case in reality. Similarly, Huckabee should do much better in North Carolina than Romney.

This issue is even more obvious on the Democratic side. Obama should not be competitive in West Virginia short of either a double digit lead nationally or excessive campaigning and ads there. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton or John Edwards would make it a swing state from day 1 (maybe even have a slight edge).

I would also like to bring up the seeming lack of a home state/region advantage of the Presidential candidate (this directly ties in with what I said above). While it's clear you do have a home state advantage with VP picks, the Presidential candidate doesn't seem to (correct me if I'm wrong), even though they would probably benefit the ticket in their home state/region more than a VP candidate. This would vary from candidate to candidate of course. Some would boost the ticket more in a state that isn't their "home" state. Mitt Romney (in 2012) would get a boost of, at most, a few percentage points in Massachusetts, but he would get a much larger boost in New Hampshire (where he currently lives) and Michigan (where he has strong ties to due to his father).

On the other hand, some would boost the ticket in more than one state. John Edwards would probably boost the ticket in most of the south, particularly the poorer southern states (Kentucky, West Virginia, Louisiana). Some candidates would have both things apply to them. Hillary Clinton would probably give the ticket a larger boost in Arkansas and other "border south" states than in New York.

Simply put, a Presidential candidate may benefit a ticket more in a state other than their home state, and they may benefit a ticket in more than one state, perhaps a whole region (which doesn't necessarily have to be their home region). Yet this effect doesn't seem to be in P4E08. I hope it is in this sequel.

Sorry for the long post (particularly if this has been brought up before).

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Of all the great things about the game, I had two issues with P4E08 that I hope are addressed in this sequel; I hope they haven't been brought up already (if they have, I would appreciate it if somebody could provide a link or quote to it :) )

Firstly, one of the few annoying things about P4E08 (mostly a great game) was that underdog candidates would start off with such a huge disadvantage in the general election. For instance, I know Ron Paul would not be as strong against Barack Obama as John McCain, but last time I played as him, Obama won +70% of the vote. Sure, I don't expect Paul to make California a swing state, but I think it is unrealistic for him to start behind Obama in Utah by double digits. After all, there is a significant portion of the population that will vote for a candidate simply because of their party. Certainly Utah shouldn't be 100% guaranteed for the Republican, but it would take a lot more than the nomination of an underdog to make it competitive.

Secondly, I was annoyed that the general election map was always be somewhat similar no matter who the nominee was. For example, Mike Huckabee seems to be just as likely to win New Hampshire as Mitt Romney in the game. We know that would not be the case in reality. Similarly, Huckabee should do much better in North Carolina than Romney.

This issue is even more obvious on the Democratic side. Obama should not be competitive in West Virginia short of either a double digit lead nationally or excessive campaigning and ads there. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton or John Edwards would make it a swing state from day 1 (maybe even have a slight edge).

I would also like to bring up the seeming lack of a home state/region advantage of the Presidential candidate (this directly ties in with what I said above). While it's clear you do have a home state advantage with VP picks, the Presidential candidate doesn't seem to (correct me if I'm wrong), even though they would probably benefit the ticket in their home state/region more than a VP candidate. This would vary from candidate to candidate of course. Some would boost the ticket more in a state that isn't their "home" state. Mitt Romney (in 2012) would get a boost of, at most, a few percentage points in Massachusetts, but he would get a much larger boost in New Hampshire (where he currently lives) and Michigan (where he has strong ties to due to his father).

On the other hand, some would boost the ticket in more than one state. John Edwards would probably boost the ticket in most of the south, particularly the poorer southern states (Kentucky, West Virginia, Louisiana). Some candidates would have both things apply to them. Hillary Clinton would probably give the ticket a larger boost in Arkansas and other "border south" states than in New York.

Simply put, a Presidential candidate may benefit a ticket more in a state other than their home state, and they may benefit a ticket in more than one state, perhaps a whole region (which doesn't necessarily have to be their home region). Yet this effect doesn't seem to be in P4E08. I hope it is in this sequel.

Sorry for the long post (particularly if this has been brought up before).

Because we're using a new game engine, that shouldn't happen in P4E12.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Rz9392, on 27 March 2011 - 10:42 AM, said:

Congrats on the great review in the Minnesota Republic. One question though. Will the problem that was addressed in the article, be fixed in the new version? This happens to me every time, and is not very realistic. How is the player supposed to continue a game, when it is impossible to win?

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Because we're using a new game engine, that shouldn't happen in P4E12.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Rz9392, on 27 March 2011 - 10:42 AM, said:

Congrats on the great review in the Minnesota Republic. One question though. Will the problem that was addressed in the article, be fixed in the new version? This happens to me every time, and is not very realistic. How is the player supposed to continue a game, when it is impossible to win?

That answers the first part, but not the second.

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Thanks for this and noted - fine-tuning the transition from primaries to general based on which candidates are in is something we'll be looking at.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Of all the great things about the game, I had two issues with P4E08 that I hope are addressed in this sequel; I hope they haven't been brought up already (if they have, I would appreciate it if somebody could provide a link or quote to it :) )

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi ayamo, we've been working on the game for the little election north of the States that just happened (and ended up completely changing Canadian federal politics).

Much of the work on PM4E Canada 2011 is directly applicable to the P4E12 game engine.

The timeline is:

PM4E Canada 2011 (probably a couple of weeks continuing to work on the game)

PM4E Australia 2011 (probably another couple of weeks to finish this game and move it out of Beta)

P4E12 (I can't say when its first beta will be released, but it won't be for at least a month)

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Kinda dusting this thread off ... it's almost been a month.

Any news? Anything?

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We'll be announcing details later on. Initially, we'll have a 'minimal' beta, which is just what it sounds like: a beta with minimal features to start testing the game.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

I am very excited about President Forever 2012, but I am curious about the new details of the game. I know it is similar to Congress Forever, but I still don't know what will be added to the game. If someone could please tell me what new features will be available to the game. Thank you.

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I'm not making any predictions on when the game will be released. To miss the start of the primaries would require it taking 8 months, though ...

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Will we see it before the actual election?

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I'm not making any predictions on when the game will be released. To miss the start of the primaries would require it taking 8 months, though ...

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Seriously? I really don't understand why you can't answer a simple question like "will the game be released before the actual election?" Perhaps you were being tongue and cheek with your response, but the question isn't all that silly - after all, wasn't it you that announced nearly 9 months ago that P4E2012 beta was going to be out in the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2010? So it's not all that outlandish to wonder if the beta will be released before the next year and a half. I'm all for being patient and waiting on a product for the sake of quality, but I feel like the above question was a legit question that you must certainly have an answer to.

PS - Just out of curiosity, and given that it will likely be a few more months before we see the beta, was there ever truthfully a point at which you believed P4E2012 was going to be released in Oct-Dec 2010? And if not, why did you announce it as such?

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Seriously? I really don't understand why you can't answer a simple question like "will the game be released before the actual election?" Perhaps you were being tongue and cheek with your response, but the question isn't all that silly - after all, wasn't it you that announced nearly 9 months ago that P4E2012 beta was going to be out in the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2010? So it's not all that outlandish to wonder if the beta will be released before the next year and a half. I'm all for being patient and waiting on a product for the sake of quality, but I feel like the above question was a legit question that you must certainly have an answer to.

PS - Just out of curiosity, and given that it will likely be a few more months before we see the beta, was there ever truthfully a point at which you believed P4E2012 was going to be released in Oct-Dec 2010? And if not, why did you announce it as such?

There was finishing C4E that had to be done, and then suddenly out of nowhere Australia has an election, forcing a need for a new PM4E based on the C4E engine. All that's good and well, but then the Canadian's have to go and have an election, causing a "drop everything, Canada's doing stuff" development schedule. And frankly, with the Australian election now months ago, and the Canadian election having gone by, it would be nice if those two games were finished off all good and proper before work was finished on a game that doesn't even need to come out for another 8 months.

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There was finishing C4E that had to be done, and then suddenly out of nowhere Australia has an election, forcing a need for a new PM4E based on the C4E engine. All that's good and well, but then the Canadian's have to go and have an election, causing a "drop everything, Canada's doing stuff" development schedule. And frankly, with the Australian election now months ago, and the Canadian election having gone by, it would be nice if those two games were finished off all good and proper before work was finished on a game that doesn't even need to come out for another 8 months.

If President forever 2012 is just going to be a minimal beta, then what is taking so long since it's just minimal?

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"I really don't understand why you can't answer a simple question like "will the game be released before the actual election?""

Because I've learnt not to make predictions about release dates.

"I feel like the above question was a legit question that you must certainly have an answer to."

I agree that it's a legitimate question. My guess is: it will take significantly less than 8 months.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

Seriously? I really don't understand why you can't answer a simple question like "will the game be released before the actual election?" Perhaps you were being tongue and cheek with your response, but the question isn't all that silly - after all, wasn't it you that announced nearly 9 months ago that P4E2012 beta was going to be out in the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2010? So it's not all that outlandish to wonder if the beta will be released before the next year and a half. I'm all for being patient and waiting on a product for the sake of quality, but I feel like the above question was a legit question that you must certainly have an answer to.

PS - Just out of curiosity, and given that it will likely be a few more months before we see the beta, was there ever truthfully a point at which you believed P4E2012 was going to be released in Oct-Dec 2010? And if not, why did you announce it as such?

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"was there ever truthfully a point at which you believed P4E2012 was going to be released in Oct-Dec 2010? And if not, why did you announce it as such?"

I do my best. People want release dates, and I foolishly gave one.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

PS - Just out of curiosity, and given that it will likely be a few more months before we see the beta, was there ever truthfully a point at which you believed P4E2012 was going to be released in Oct-Dec 2010? And if not, why did you announce it as such?

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Also, most of the work on PM4E Canada 2011 (and PM4E Australia 2010 before it) would have had to be done for P4E12 anyways. So, continued work on PM4E Canada 2011 right now largely indirectly = work on P4E12.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

There was finishing C4E that had to be done, and then suddenly out of nowhere Australia has an election, forcing a need for a new PM4E based on the C4E engine. All that's good and well, but then the Canadian's have to go and have an election, causing a "drop everything, Canada's doing stuff" development schedule. And frankly, with the Australian election now months ago, and the Canadian election having gone by, it would be nice if those two games were finished off all good and proper before work was finished on a game that doesn't even need to come out for another 8 months.

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Because from a development perspective it makes more sense to finish PM4E Canada 2011 and PM4E Australia 2010 first, and then go to P4E12. Basically, if we were to release a minimal P4E12 beta next week, we'd then have to split the game engine code, which would then mean going back and forth between games whenever a bug was fixed or feature was added that made sense to have in all 3 games. It's much more straightforward to simply finish the PM4Es, then focus on P4E12.

Anthony Burgoyne

Lead Designer

270soft.com

Where gaming gets political!

If President forever 2012 is just going to be a minimal beta, then what is taking so long since it's just minimal?

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