1972?

[chickoff 1]

Does anyone have a 1972 Presidential scenario, preferably with an incumbent RFK? If no Kennedy I will take any '72 scenario. I would like it so I can continue my alternate history game play. I did a '68 as RFK and barely won and would like to see if I can get him reelected and continue on with the alt history all the way to '08. I will not distribute what I am given permission to use, but may tweak it for myself. Thanks.

[Patine 468]

Does anyone have a 1972 Presidential scenario, preferably with an incumbent RFK? If no Kennedy I will take any '72 scenario. I would like it so I can continue my alternate history game play. I did a '68 as RFK and barely won and would like to see if I can get him reelected and continue on with the alt history all the way to '08. I will not distribute what I am given permission to use, but may tweak it for myself. Thanks.

I don't think there actually is a standing '72 scenario. Warner '12 started one a while back, but I'm quite sure he never finished it, or at least never publically distributed it. Maybe PM him.

[chickoff 1]

I don't think there actually is a standing '72 scenario. Warner '12 started one a while back, but I'm quite sure he never finished it, or at least never publically distributed it. Maybe PM him.

well I am 80 percent done with one. Just need GOP candidates and percentages. Premise being in this scenario is that Kennedy defeated Nixon in 68 so he is not there to kick around anymore. Is was thinking frontrunners of Rockefeller and Howard baker of Tennessee with Charles Percy of Illinois and Edward Brooke of Massachusetts as darkhorses. Am I forgetting anyone other than Reagan. I am saving him for 76.

[dtrielli 0]

well I am 80 percent done with one. Just need GOP candidates and percentages. Premise being in this scenario is that Kennedy defeated Nixon in 68 so he is not there to kick around anymore. Is was thinking frontrunners of Rockefeller and Howard baker of Tennessee with Charles Percy of Illinois and Edward Brooke of Massachusetts as darkhorses. Am I forgetting anyone other than Reagan. I am saving him for 76.

Looking forward to seeing it, specially since I was just starting a 1972 scenario myself. One question, though: why not a historical scenario?

[chickoff 1]

Looking forward to seeing it, specially since I was just starting a 1972 scenario myself. One question, though: why not a historical scenario?

Two reasons. 1) I don't see the prospect of another McGovern or Muskie or insert your fav generic Dem landslide loss to Nixon fun 2) right now I am into the alt hist scenarios. I view 68 as one of the more recent type elections. Now I am playing through 68-08 in this alternate ending US. I will post progress on the forum.

[chickoff 1]

Two reasons. 1) I don't see the prospect of another McGovern or Muskie or insert your fav generic Dem landslide loss to Nixon fun 2) right now I am into the alt hist scenarios. I view 68 as one of the more recent type elections. Now I am playing through 68-08 in this alternate ending US. I will post progress on the forum.

Come to think of it. If I can add in the traditional candidates from 72 McGovern, Humphrey, Muskie. Jackson, Chisolm, Nixon, Ashbrook, McCloskey with relative ease I will, but that's a lot of work and have them OFF by default that way a player can choose alt or real.

[liberalkid 1]

well I am 80 percent done with one. Just need GOP candidates and percentages. Premise being in this scenario is that Kennedy defeated Nixon in 68 so he is not there to kick around anymore. Is was thinking frontrunners of Rockefeller and Howard baker of Tennessee with Charles Percy of Illinois and Edward Brooke of Massachusetts as darkhorses. Am I forgetting anyone other than Reagan. I am saving him for 76.

Harold Stassen

[dtrielli 0]

Two reasons. 1) I don't see the prospect of another McGovern or Muskie or insert your fav generic Dem landslide loss to Nixon fun 2) right now I am into the alt hist scenarios. I view 68 as one of the more recent type elections. Now I am playing through 68-08 in this alternate ending US. I will post progress on the forum.

Oh, I agree, playability comes first. That's why I was planning on putting at least Bobby Kennedy and Reagan as candidates off by default in an alternate reality deal.

Look forward to see you alternative US scenarios!

[darkmoon72 2]

Should George Wallace be in this scenario too? He was a strong presence in the Democratic primaries until he got shot.

Since there's an alternate history where RFK survives and is elected president, should Wallace be included as if the shooting didn't happen?

[chickoff 1]

Should George Wallace be in this scenario too? He was a strong presence in the Democratic primaries until he got shot.

Since there's an alternate history where RFK survives and is elected president, should Wallace be included as if the shooting didn't happen?

Oh trust me Wallace is in the Dem primary throughout. That would have been one nasty primary fight.

[chickoff 1]

Does anyone have any data or have any idea where to find information on candidate and party funds at points in the 72 campaign?

Oh trust me Wallace is in the Dem primary throughout. That would have been one nasty primary fight.

[chickoff 1]

Okay gents, I am making the finishing touches on my alternate 1972 Election with President Robert Kennedy running for reelection. Just need to enter primary/caucus data (boy is that ever tedious!) Below are the features, if you think you might want to play it, I will email it to you. I should have all tweaks done by this weekend. I am excited to play this one. If you have thoughts, I may listen to your constructive criticism, but this is not based on historical results so do not say, add Richard Nixon, he's done politically after losing the presidency twice.

Scenario

Primaries

Having won in '68 President Robert Kennedy while personally popular, is nursing a fractious party from a stalled agenda, due to southern democrat and GOP obstructionism. George Wallace and southern anger stand in his way for renomination. The GOP field is wide-open, featuring liberal standard bearer Nelson Rockefeller, and some fresh faces in popular southerner Howard Baker and Spiro Agnew, who was almost named Nixon's VP four years ago.

General Election

Having ended the Vietnam War, RFK will face a downhill fight against less well known republicans. Kennedy will leverage his compassion for the common man, and experience to win a second term. But he must improve from '68 (268 '72 equivlant). The GOP is anxious to win back control of the Executive Branch, it has not held since 1960. The changing national mood and southern landscape may forecast big losses for Democrats.

Issues

Budget

Abortion

Education

Draft Amnesty

Environment

Military Spending

Income/Wages

Immigration

American Prestige

Rebuilding Cities

School Prayer

Tax

Equal Rights Amendment

Soc Sec

Unions

Soviet Threat

Desegregation/Busing

26th Amendment

Candidates

Dem

President Kennedy

George Wallace

Shirley Chisolm

GOP

Nelson Rockefeller

Howard Baker

Spiro Agnew

Charles Percy

John Ashbrook

Primary Outlook

Note: Odds are stacked in Baker's favor for the GOP since they have not nominated a liberal since 1948 when it nominated Thomas Dewey.

General Election Outlook

[darkmoon72 2]

I would very much like to play it, if you could e-mail it to delirium-music@hotmail.com whenever you get a chance.

Looks like it will be a lot of fun! Thanks!

[Red Dog Democrat 9]

simonavi9@yahoo.com

[Patine 468]

chandallah@netscape.net

[liberalkid 1]

liberalkid.jackson@gmail.com

[collegeconservative19 0]

Sounds like a really fun scenario. bluedevil1690@gmail.com whenever you get the chance. Thanks so much.

[NYCDEMS 1]

I'd like a copy too mdlevy85@earthlink.net. Thanks.

[chickoff 1]

Okay need input. I am rethinking my percentages in the GOP primary field. Was originally viewing the candidates in three categories; conservative, moderate, liberal, with the conservative candidates taking 45% In polls and liberals, moderates spliting another 45% (22/22). However my research (wiki) is indicating that their is little difference between the liberal and moderate side and were allied under one roof as Rockefeller Republicans. Therefore if that is true, not only would Percy cut into Rockefellers support but so would potentially moderate (Agnew). Thus helping the conservative candiidate even more. How do you all think they would split votes?

Also thinking of making the Northeast, Midwest, and possibly Atlantic regions, lean moderate/liberal and South, and west lean conservative. Does this seem historically accurate. My interpretation of the 76 and 80 primaries between Ford/Reagan, Reagan/Bush is yes.

[darkmoon72 2]

Okay need input. I am rethinking my percentages in the GOP primary field. Was originally viewing the candidates in three categories; conservative, moderate, liberal, with the conservative candidates taking 45% In polls and liberals, moderates spliting another 45% (22/22). However my research (wiki) is indicating that their is little difference between the liberal and moderate side and were allied under one roof as Rockefeller Republicans. Therefore if that is true, not only would Percy cut into Rockefellers support but so would potentially moderate (Agnew). Thus helping the conservative candiidate even more. How do you all think they would split votes?

Also thinking of making the Northeast, Midwest, and possibly Atlantic regions, lean moderate/liberal and South, and west lean conservative. Does this seem historically accurate. My interpretation of the 76 and 80 primaries between Ford/Reagan, Reagan/Bush is yes.

There were some differences between the liberal Republicans and moderate Republicans of the time.

Liberal Republicans of the time would include people like John Lindsay and Pete McCloskey, both of whom later became Democrats. The Rockefeller Republicans you speak of were more moderate than Republicans like this. Maybe they weren't a huge segment of the party, but they were there.

Side note: John Lindsay switched to the Democrats in 1971 (probably to run for president). Are you including him in this scenario? If so, what party? It's uncertain whether or not he would've switched parties had Nixon not been the Republican nominee in 1972.

I think your regional affiliations are pretty accurate, but I still don't understand why you are excluding Ronald Reagan. George Bush was also angling to be Nixon's VP as early as 1968 - he should probably be included as well.

[chickoff 1]

Thanks for the input. I will have to think about that three camps or two considering the field of candidates. I did not include Linsay, because I didn't see room for a third liberal New Yorker in the race, I think his base support would be pretty much nothing after Kennedy and Rockefeller cut into it. Bush will likely come into a later scenario but I dont see him as a legit candidate without all his time in GOP administrations from '71-'77, govt experience was a huge selling point for Bush.

There were some differences between the liberal Republicans and moderate Republicans of the time.

Liberal Republicans of the time would include people like John Lindsay and Pete McCloskey, both of whom later became Democrats. The Rockefeller Republicans you speak of were more moderate than Republicans like this. Maybe they weren't a huge segment of the party, but they were there.

Side note: John Lindsay switched to the Democrats in 1971 (probably to run for president). Are you including him in this scenario? If so, what party? It's uncertain whether or not he would've switched parties had Nixon not been the Republican nominee in 1972.

I think your regional affiliations are pretty accurate, but I still don't understand why you are excluding Ronald Reagan. George Bush was also angling to be Nixon's VP as early as 1968 - he should probably be included as well.

[Lahbas 4]

If you send it to me, I'll help you where I can.

jamesrobertmclaughlin@yahoo.com

[chickoff 1]

Tweaked the GOP primary poll numbers. I think this will provide a highly competeive race but with an edge to the conservative wing as is historically true. And believe me all states are "in play", with the exception of homestates, they are fairly locked down, you'll also notice there is two candidates from each wing of the party, so as candidates withdraw, the other will likely get a boost, so anything can happen. Candidate colors are; Senator Howard Baker=Orange, Congressman John Ashbrook=Red, Governor Nelson Rockefeller=Yellow, Senator Charles Percy=powder blue, Governor Spiro Agnew=Purple, and new entrant Senator Mark Hatfield=Aqua.

[chickoff 1]

Okay it is done. I am playing it today and tomorrow and will send it out ASAP. I think you'll all like it.

[chickoff 1]

I will release this out later today via email.