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United States 1789 Released


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Here's my rendition of a United States 1789 scenario. It is done strictly as a primary of the United States 'party' with the 'convention' being the actual election. Each state has twice as many 'delegates' as it's historic electors, and distribution is by PR. The most votes (most likely Washington) becomes President, the second most becomes Vice President, which, because of Washington's huge advantage, is considered a level of victory in this scenario. A candidate's 'party affiliation' (Federalist, Anti-Federalist, or, in Washington's case, none) is listed in each of their bios. The 'other party' (to make the scenario actually work) is a parellel gubernatorial election in the Vermont Republic. I haven't yet included events or endorsers, as I'm not sure which, if any, would be relevant. I'm having an error with everyone showing as 0% in New Jersey. If someone knows how to fix it, please let me know. You'll find the scenario on the link below. Enjoy, and please give feedback!

http://drop.io/d2dil2c#

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I'm playing it right now. I downloaded your second file, the one with the fix.

Connecticut, Georgia and South Carolina have Washington at 100% and everyone else at 0%.

If I play the primaries, I get an invalid floating point operation after finishing the first turn.

New York has 8 electoral votes, despite the fact that in 1789, no EVs from New York were counted. Should NY be greyed out like Rhode Island and North Carolina?

I like the Vermont idea - although historically, that election was unique in that despite Chittenden winning a plurality of the vote, a committee picked Moses Robinson.

Since a third candidate, Samuel Safford, also ran in that election, maybe to simulate the actual event you could have Safford on good terms with Robinson and close to him on issues. Safford could drop out and endorse Robinson if Chittenden doesn't win a majority on his own. Just an idea.

This is fairly minor nitpicking, since I can't even get past the first turn with any of the candidates, but you forgot the "g" in Washington's name.

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I'm playing it right now. I downloaded your second file, the one with the fix.

Connecticut, Georgia and South Carolina have Washington at 100% and everyone else at 0%.

If I play the primaries, I get an invalid floating point operation after finishing the first turn.

New York has 8 electoral votes, despite the fact that in 1789, no EVs from New York were counted. Should NY be greyed out like Rhode Island and North Carolina?

I like the Vermont idea - although historically, that election was unique in that despite Chittenden winning a plurality of the vote, a committee picked Moses Robinson.

Since a third candidate, Samuel Safford, also ran in that election, maybe to simulate the actual event you could have Safford on good terms with Robinson and close to him on issues. Safford could drop out and endorse Robinson if Chittenden doesn't win a majority on his own. Just an idea.

This is fairly minor nitpicking, since I can't even get past the first turn with any of the candidates, but you forgot the "g" in Washington's name.

I really wish I knew what caused floating point operation errors and how to quickly fix them. I noticed that too when I went to do a full playtest after posting the scenario. If anyone can help debug it (including the Connecticut, Georgia, New Jersey, and South Carolina % bug), I'd greatly appreciate it. Otherwise, I may have to send it in to TheorySpark tech support.

New York does have 8 electors, as historical, in the GE, but no delegates in the primaries, which is what really matters (the GE is irrelevant in this scenario). It exists only because two candidates have it as their home region, and, as it was expected to deliver EV's, it does make sense if the AI camapigns there.

I like the Samuel Safford idea for the Vermont election. I'll look him up for more information.

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I really wish I knew what caused floating point operation errors and how to quickly fix them. I noticed that too when I went to do a full playtest after posting the scenario. If anyone can help debug it (including the Connecticut, Georgia, New Jersey, and South Carolina % bug), I'd greatly appreciate it. Otherwise, I may have to send it in to TheorySpark tech support.

New York does have 8 electors, as historical, in the GE, but no delegates in the primaries, which is what really matters (the GE is irrelevant in this scenario). It exists only because two candidates have it as their home region, and, as it was expected to deliver EV's, it does make sense if the AI camapigns there.

I like the Samuel Safford idea for the Vermont election. I'll look him up for more information.

The CT, GA, NJ, SC bug is caused by having too few voters. You have Connecticut with only 187 eligible voters. With the 98% Universal Alienated %, you only have four people voting. The P4E engine can't handle numbers that small.

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The CT, GA, NJ, SC bug is caused by having too few voters. You have Connecticut with only 187 eligible voters. With the 98% Universal Alienated %, you only have four people voting. The P4E engine can't handle numbers that small.

I just fixed that, and it worked. I had originally set the number so low to duplicate the legislatures as choosing the electors, with the legislators being the only 'eligible voters,' but that didn't seem to work so well, so I've fudged and am now using the actual number of eligible voters for those states. I've also fixed that issue on my 1848 scenario for SC (see that thread for the update). Now I just need to fix that floating point operation error. Anyone have any idea what I should try?

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I just fixed that, and it worked. I had originally set the number so low to duplicate the legislatures as choosing the electors, with the legislators being the only 'eligible voters,' but that didn't seem to work so well, so I've fudged and am now using the actual number of eligible voters for those states. I've also fixed that issue on my 1848 scenario for SC (see that thread for the update). Now I just need to fix that floating point operation error. Anyone have any idea what I should try?

I ran into the small number problem when doing third parties in my 2008 scenario. It takes at least 200 probable voters for polls to show something other than zeroes, and about 1000 if you ever want the polls to actually move.

Dunno what's causing the floating point error. It doesn't appear to be any of the things that I usually screw up. :P

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Oh, duh, I know why you're getting floating point errors. You can't have 0 seats in the primaries in any state.

I just fixed that. I moved Jay and Clinton's homestate to New Jersey (largely by default) and removed New York as a political unit. Now I get an 'access violation error' concerning p4e.exe with a big number. Any idea what's causing that?

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I just fixed that. I moved Jay and Clinton's homestate to New Jersey (largely by default) and removed New York as a political unit. Now I get an 'access violation error' concerning p4e.exe with a big number. Any idea what's causing that?

What about Vermont? Can't have zeroes there, and the Vermont party can't have zeroes in the other states.

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What about Vermont? Can't have zeroes there, and the Vermont party can't have zeroes in the other states.

No, that's not it. The type of error has changed; it's no longer a floating point operation error. To make sure, I did a test copy of the scenario and gave the United States 'party' 1 delegate in Vermont and the Vermont Republic 'party' 1 delegate in each of the 10 active Union states, and I still got the new type of error. As well, I recall from past scenarios I've made a party can actually get away with not having delegates in states they're not on the ballot in. No, the error is something else, and I don't know what.

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On another note, does anyone know where I can find a complete list of the members of the Second Continental Congress? They were effectively the incumbant federal government in 1789 before the first president and bicameral Congress were inaugerated, and would make an excellent potential source of endorsers.

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On another note, does anyone know where I can find a complete list of the members of the Second Continental Congress? They were effectively the incumbant federal government in 1789 before the first president and bicameral Congress were inaugerated, and would make an excellent potential source of endorsers.

I found this website here, which should have all the members from each colony listed.

http://www.patriotresource.com/amerrev/overview/congress/index.html

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Has anyone figured out this error, yet. It's also infected my skeleton of an 1824 scenario, too. The error message is stated here:

http://80soft.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10902

I can send anyone who'd like to help what I've gotten on these two so far. Note, these two scenarios do NOT work, and are not being given out just for play; only ask if you intend to help with troubleshooting.

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I still can't seem to figure out this error, and admin_theoryspark hasn't responded to my post in the General forum in about a week. Everything in the two scenarios seems to be in order. Can someone PLEASE have a look at them and see if they can make something out, maybe even fix the error?

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Any ideas or progress on figuring out this error, pilight? I ask before I prod admin_theoryspark, whose been silent almost two weeks since my last post in the thread in the General forum.

All I can report is that I get the same error. I haven't found the problem, or anything that looks likely to lead me to it.

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  • 2 months later...

I just got my tech support back for this one from TheorySpark, and it appears there were two issues. First, New York's region ID still appeared on the parties.xml file. I fixed that. Second, the game doesn't like it doesn't have when at least two parties on the ballot in every state. This poses major difficulty to my plans and means I'll have to completely rethink how to work this scenario. Any suggestions, anyone?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just got my tech support back for this one from TheorySpark, and it appears there were two issues. First, New York's region ID still appeared on the parties.xml file. I fixed that. Second, the game doesn't like it doesn't have when at least two parties on the ballot in every state. This poses major difficulty to my plans and means I'll have to completely rethink how to work this scenario. Any suggestions, anyone?

I have an idea for re-working the scenario. Not sure how successful it will be, but it's worth a shot.

Make the election a primary, like you did with 1824. Give the states proportional representation if they split their votes for VP in the real-life election, otherwise make it winner-take-all.

Create two parties, with the following names:

President - George Washington

Vice President - all of the VP candidates, with John Adams in the lead

Give each party 69 delegates. Washington runs unopposed in the "President" party, and wins all 69. The VP candidates fight over their 69 delegates separately in the "Vice President" party.

Since George Clinton and Edward Telfair were both given EVs by Anti-Federalist electors, make their positions on the issues directly opposed to the Federalist VP candidates.

For counting vote percentages, Clinton and Telfair's percentages combined should equal about 7.6% of the popular vote in the "Vice President" party, with the Federalist candidates getting 92.4% if combined.

Completely eliminate the Vermont gubernatorial election.

It's worth trying, at least. It seems like it would work.

For information on the VP candidates and popular vote totals, go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_presidential_election,_1789

For information on which states voted for whom, go here:

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/

Finally, to determine how each state voted (popular vote, popular vote by district, state legislature or a mix) go here:

http://presidentelect.org/e1789.html

Let me know what you think of this idea, and if you manage to get it working.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sometimes when I get that error when trying to play a scenario I open the root folder and move it to its very own single file in the Scenarios folder. Thus rather than having a file in a file you have one file under the scenarios. Very hard to explain.

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