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United States Presdential Election 1860


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I'll get back to the map tomorrow sometime. When the issues are done, then the map can be inserted and political units done. Then there's ads, which should likely be newspaper, magazine, and poster (if any other, please tell me), I think. Then political parties and their candidates get done.

Sounds good.

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Some of my ideas include: -The Republicans will not be on the ballot in 13 Southern states. -All of a party's primaries and their nomination will be on the same day (the day of that party's conventi

Strangely, the total number of delegates comes out to 300, not including alternates. I wonder if one or more state delegations failed to attend, or withdrew from, the convention after that secretary's

That's too bad. I could try my hand at the remaining issues, if you don't think you'll be able to finish them.

Abe, Heat, you two still around? I've got the issues done so far, and the map's coming along. When can you finish the issues, Abe? Also, before I finish with Step One, what should the fundraising and money coefficients be? Things were a lot cheaper back then, and money went a lot farther and was worth a lot more, but was a lot harder to come by.

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Abe, Heat, you two still around? I've got the issues done so far, and the map's coming along. When can you finish the issues, Abe? Also, before I finish with Step One, what should the fundraising and money coefficients be? Things were a lot cheaper back then, and money went a lot farther and was worth a lot more, but was a lot harder to come by.

Sorry I've been sick lately and am still sick so I don't know how much I'll do immediatly.

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It's going to be difficult to make the travel realistic. The transcontinental railroad wasn't completed until 1869, so traveling to California and Oregon within a campaign context would be nearly impossible. It took months to get there by stagecoach or ship in 1860, which of course would also mean months to get back. Even traveling within the contiguous states of the time was difficult and time consuming. It took several days to get from New York to Chicago by train.

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any updates patine or abe?

The map is almost done. I'm just waiting on Abe's last 10 or 12 (can't remember which) issues to be done so I can do Step Three: Political Units. Then I'll do Step Four: Ads, which shouldn't take long. Then it'll be time for parties and candidates.

BTW, a house rule restricting travel to adjacent states may be a good idea, especially for MP games. The AI obviously won't obey of course, but that can possibly be overlooked as the limits of the engine. Problem I see with that is Lane, whose home state is Oregon. Would he be stuck on the West Coast for the whole primaries? And what if he won the nomination? That's a small bit of an issue, there.

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BTW, a house rule restricting travel to adjacent states may be a good idea, especially for MP games. The AI obviously won't obey of course, but that can possibly be overlooked as the limits of the engine. Problem I see with that is Lane, whose home state is Oregon. Would he be stuck on the West Coast for the whole primaries? And what if he won the nomination? That's a small bit of an issue, there.

Historically, elections in those days didn't feature much campaigning by the candidates. Lincoln made no campaign appearances at all in 1860, leaving it to the party to handle that stuff. Stephen Douglas was an exception, his 1860 campaign tour was the first of its kind. I'd raise the CP cost of barnstorming to make it impossible to make more than one per day and lower the stamina of all the candidates to levels that would seem unacceptable to a modern candidate.

re: ads. That would be just direct mail and newspaper ads, I think. Much of the advertising was done by fliers, which is better abstracted by footsoldiers.

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I've done a lot of thinking about how to replicate travel for the 19th century. The best thing I can come up with is to make the stamina cost for barnstorming much much higher. Here's my thought, which has had absolutely no playtesting. Also, I don't know if the cost already has the $ coefficient worked into it (it would be around 4, by the way), so I'll assume it doesn't to make my thinking this through a little easier...

Leader Barnstorming (vice-leader would be changed to fit too)

Cost 200 (train travel, etc)

Energy Points 30 (up from 5, more than twice in a week would be torture)

Command Points 3

Base Power 5

Chance of News 30

This would make barnstorming extremely effective, but a once, maybe twice-a-week activity. Policy speeches could have "requires location" unchecked and be toned down a little, replicating open letters. And I'd say that develop campaign should have a huge huge cost associated with it, because it just wouldn't have been feasible in 1860 to be able to quickly build an effective national organization.

Also, with ads, it might be best to nuance the type of newspaper ad, since that's all there was. With most papers of the time being unabashedly partisan (like now!), it could be broken down to "friendly" newspaper (no negative backlash), "hostile" newspaper (higher base power but higher cost, huge chance of backlash), and political cartoon (no idea how it would differ from the others, but go to any 19th century election wikipedia page and you'll see fifty editorial cartoons, so it should be in there).

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That solves the problem of too much barnstorming, but it doesn't resolve the "New York today, California tomorrow" problem. Cross country travel at that speed wasn't really feasible until the jet age, no earlier than the 1960 election.

As I said earlier, state-state house rule.

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Alright this is what I have. Does anyone think anything should be taken away or added. If not I will start creating postions for the issues.

1. Expansion of Slavery

2. States Rights

3. Tariffs

4. Taxes

5. Compromise of 1850

6. Dred Scott Case

7. Military

8. Immigration

9. Economy

10. Labor Rights

11. Gold Standard

12. Industry

13. American-British Relations

14. Mexico

15. Possible Secession

16. Fugitive Slave Laws

17. Executive Power

18. Pacific Railroad

19. Religion

20. Abolition

21. Popular Sovereignty

22. Monroe Doctrine

The Republicans campaigned on the Homestead Act, and Lincoln signed into law in 1862. The south was opposed, fearing competition from western farms.

The Kansas-Nebraska Act was more an issue than the Compromise of 1850. Bleeding Kansas was fresh in everyone's mind. The violence mostly subsided after the passage of the Wyandotte Constitution, but could easily have flared back up (especially if Breckenridge had won the election). The decision to add Kansas as a free state was anything but decided while the election was going on. The US House's vote to admit Kansas using the Wyandotte Constitution in April seems like a natural event.

You could add Cuba as an issue. The Ostend Manifesto was dead, but there were many people who still wanted to acquire the island from Spain.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Abe, I've seen you post on other threads lately, including another of mine, but you're completely ignoring this one. Could you please give the courtesy of a response as to where things stand progress-wise, or even if you wish to continue contributing? I'm sure heat would like to know, and certainly so would I.

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I will update this as I do more. I will put canidates names next to issues as I figure them out.

Postions

Expansion of Slavery

Far-Left: Create an ammendment to the constiution protecting slavery and forcing all states to make it legal.

Left: Allow states that currently have outlawed slavery to keep such laws but pass a bill stating that slavery is legal in all new states.

Center-left: Allow all states to decide for themselves.

Center: Allow all new states to decide for themselves.

Center-Right: Stick to the Missouri Compromise line when admitting new states.

Right: Allow states where slavery is currently legal to keep it that way for now but all new states must be non-slave. (Lincoln)

Far-Right: All new states must outlaw slavery and a gradual reduction of slavery in the current slave states until slavery no longer exists.

States Rights

Far-Left: The goverment is intruding upon states rights. Rewrite the constituion to eliminate the presidency. Give states the right to succede and overule any federal law.

Left: Give states the right to succede and overule any federal law.

Center-Left: States should be able to manage their own affairs. Keep Federal goverment as small as possible.

Center: Its fine the way it is.

Center-Right: States should have certain rights but the federal goverment should be the ultimate athourity. (Lincoln)

Right: The United States is one nation and people need to realize that. A small amount of state rights but almost all power rests with the federal goverment.

Far-Right: Eliminate states. The USA should be one giant state.

Tariffs*

Far-Left: Outlaw imports

Left: Allow individual states to set their own tariff rates.

Center-Left: A single moderate tariff rate but allow states to add to that if they wish.

Center: There are more important things to worry about then the tariff system

Center-Right: One national tariff rate with a certain percentage going to each state.

Right: One very high national rate (Lincoln)

Far-Right: Low national tariff rate.

Taxes

Far-Left: Introduce a large income tax and raise all other tax levels.

Left: Moderatly raise most tax levels and introduce an income tax of around 10%

Center-Left: Slight raise in most taxes, if necassary a larger raise and a temprorary income tax of 5-10% (Lincoln)

Center: Small to moderate raise in some taxes if the need arises otherwise no raises and no income tax.

Center-right: Stay at current tax levels no matter what.

Right: Lower taxes across the board.

Far-Right: Eliminate taxes

Compromise of 1850

Far-Left: This "compromise" is an outrage. We can not allow anyone to ban slavery, especially our nations capital and all new states should be forced to allow slavery.

Left: This compromise infringes on the rights of the south.

Center-Left: Certain sections of this compromise need to be re-written so it is more equal towards the south.

Center: The compromise is a good idea and should be left alone.

Center-Right: The fugative slave laws in the compromise need to be re-written to make them less harsh.

Right: The compromise is simply delaying the fact that one day slavery must be eliminated. (Lincoln)

Far-Right: Trash the compromise and invade all slave states.

Dred Scott Case

Far-Left: The decision does not go far enough.

Left: The decision needs to be translated into an ammendment to the consitution so that no congress can ever overturn it.

Center-Left: The decision was correct.

Center: Whether or not the decision was correct is no business of politicians but the job of lawyers.

Center-Right: This decision is much to harsh but their is little to be done now but work for a better decision in the future.

Right: This case was an outrage and must be overturned by a consitutional ammendment passed by congress. (Lincoln)

Far-Right: This decision must be immediatly overturned and the justices who passed it and any judge or fedral lawyer who supports it dismissed.

Military

Far-Left: Eliminate the fedral army, replacing it with smaller state controlled armies.

Left: Eliminate most of the Federal army and increase the size and independance of state armies, a.k.a. national guards.

Center-Left: A small reduction in the size of the Federal Army and more independance for state armies.

Center: Keep the army the size it is now.

Center-Right: A slight increase in the size of the Federal Army.

Right: A realitivly large increase in the size of the Federal Army and a reduction in the size and indepedance of state armies. (Lincoln)

Far-Right: Across the board reductions in the size of the military, both federal and state.

Immigration

Far-Left: Open immigration for any one who want to get in.

Left: Less immigration restricitions.

Center-Left: Leave immigration laws and restrictions up to the states they are immigrating to.

Center: Keep the immigration system the same as it currently is.

Center-Right: More restrictions and quotas on immigration.

Right: A large ammount of quotas and restriction so as to allow only a small number of immigrants.

Far-Right: Outlaw immigration.

*During this election this debate was more about states individual tariffs then the actual rates.

UPDATED: 11:38 CT 1/18

UPDATED 10:43 PM (CT) 1/18/09 Expansion of Slavery, Dred Scott Case

UPDATED 1:47 PM (CT) 1/19/09 Military, Immigration

Now back to doing issues :D (sorry)

Economy

Far-Left: Massive increase in taxation and more goverment welfare programs. Reforms along the lines of those suggested by German philopher Karl Marx.

Left: Increase in taxation and spending on national projects.

Center-Left: A small increase in taxes with no increase in spending to help stabalize the economy.

Center: The economy is fine the way it is.

Center-Right: Decrease in spending but keep taxes the same

Right: Across the board tax and spending cuts.

Far-Right: The federal goverment should have no control over the economy.

(Sorry thats all I have time to do right now but I will do more later and I promise this time I won't forget)

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