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The Union-2008

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Hey folks. This scenario proposes that the south won the civil war after Sherman was defeated by Hood at Atlanta. With this defeat, the Democrats (running on a peace platform) win the November election and negotiate a peace settlement. During the ensuing decades the north becomes the bastion of the small farms and industry. The expansion fast is more rapid, though Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Cuba fall to the C.S.A. Politically the north is divided, though it leans GOP. The Democrats are composed of the blue-collar, pro-worker wing, as well as the more rural and laissez-faire wing. They are united by a sympathy for the little man. They're most influential presidents were: Horatio Seymour, William J. Bryan, Al Smith, John Kennedy, and Ronald Reagan (yes, him)

The GOP is divided into two major factions as well: The reform minded progressives and the isolationist, pro-buisness conservatives.

The GOP's most influential presidents: Theodore Roosevelt, Robert LaFollete, Prescott Bush, Robert Taft, and George Bush

The current president is California centrist Pete Wilson-R. He is retiring and popular VP Bob Smith of New Hampshire (a swing state) has declined to run. Thus they're is a power vacuum, with both parties aiming for the white house.


That being said I do have some ideas as to who would be potential candidates.


Sen. Lincoln Chafee

Gov. Mitt Romney

VP Bob Smith (OFF)


Sen. Joe Biden

Sen. Chris Dodd

Fmr. Mayor Rudy Giuliani

Sen. John Kerry (Off)

Sen. Evan Bayh (Off)

Buisnessman Mark Warner (Off)


Ralph Nader

Socialist (Has a solid block of support out west)

Bernie Sanders

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As far as background, Maryland, DC, Kentucky, Missouri, Delaware, and Kansas would all probably have seceeded to if it meant maintaining slavery.

Your focus is too much on the NE. Move out to the west some.

Add some people like Feingold, Thune, Schweitzer, Boxer, Hoeven, Pawlenty, Coleman, Kitzhaber, Huntsman, Pence, Ensign, etc.

I'm not saying all of them, but the West Coast especially California would be a pretty powerful electoral prize. Also what state does Warner come from.

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I'll adress the questions in order

1-Yes there will be a confederacy '08 once this one is complete. It will be a little harder because the dems would be very powerful in the south, though the whigs (supple-siders, big buisness) and constitution (christian right) have some power

2-I was just throwing out some candidates. Of course the west will have a lot of influence, and schweitzer will be a candidate. As far as the other states seceding, that dosen't happen in this scenario because the union millitary holds things down and there are permanent bases until the early 1900s. Warner is actually not from Virginia and spent most of his life in connecticut. He will hail from there.

3-Yup but he's not as much alternate history as science fiction.

4-Bush was president in this scenario. He would represent Connecticut. W however never got going in the intellectual politics of the north or the more populist politics of the west. Plus, Quayle would be more of a candidate in the '90s then now.

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About the South, another great idea for P4E+P or PM4E (but improbable) is to do a what-if scenario as Louisiana (and its enormous territory) would have not been bought by the US and have stayed French or had become an independant country.

There will be two parties:


Marie Landrieu

Michel Landrieu

Jean Domengeaux

Jérôme Domengeaux

Catherine Babineaux

Edwin Brouillette

Charles Melancon

Raymond Bertrand

Jean Breaux

PARTI BLEU: Centre-Right

Robert Jindal

William Lastrapes

Robert Tauzin

PARTI RADICAL: Right-Wing, Rural Based, Populist:

Édouard Robert

Marc LeBlanc

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Oh I understand that he qualifies as an alternative historian, but i feel like most of his scenarios are rather fanciful, and while they make good reading are not practical. I consider myself a amateur alternate historian, and I believe that a realistic alternate history should have as few points of divergence as possible. In this case, the only major difference is that at the Battle of Atlanta, the CSA takes the gap in the Union line and breaks the Army of the Tennessee (USA). Hood then divides and takes down the other union armies around Atlanta. This defeat (or lack of a major victory) gives the Dems the guts to nominate the anti-war Horatio Seymour, who wins a very close victory over Lincoln.

An example of one of my alternate histories is that Mario Cuomo runs for president in 1992. The reason is simple, he just has a change of heart and runs. He defeats Clinton in the primaries and wins a closer general election. As president he governs to the left of Clinton, but not substantially. Less tax-cuts, no welfare reform, less emphasis on cutting spending, no NAFTA, less deregulation and more regulation, and a fairly moderate health care reform (Cuomo compromises with Senate Dems and passes the bill, which is more like insurance reform). The results in '94 aren't as bad for the DEMS as Cuomo is viewed as competent, if very liberal. For the next eight years a true battle between the left and the right is fought. Cuomo wins in 1996, and dosen't do too much in his second term, besides Kyoto. In Turtledove's world, Cuomo would have passed single-payer reform and America would divulge into a civil war between buisness and labor and all sorts of crazy stuff would go down.

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Yeah they did nominate McClellan, and you kicked his ass. But McClellan was nominated as a pro-war Dem, as it looked difficult to beat you. So in this ATL Sherman was defeated at Atlanta before the convention, so they nominate Horatio Seymour, Anti-War and more nationally known.

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