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New Vice-Presidential Candidates for next release of P4E 2008


president9
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So a man works hard and makes a confortable living and he should be punished for it? CHOO CHOO all aboard the socialism train.

If you're talking about McCain he married rich.

But really, this board isn't for discussion of current affairs outside of how it directly effects the 2008 scenario.

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So a man works hard and makes a confortable living and he should be punished for it? CHOO CHOO all aboard the socialism train.

No. He should not be punished, but he also should not be paying twice as less taxes as the average income maker.

Also, not everyone has the same opportunities to make a comfortable living. One man can be born into a rich neighborhood, have world class teachers, get a scholarship. Another can be born into a poor neighborhood, get stinky public education in ghettos, - and not have enough money to attend college. It's the duty of those who did have a good head start, to help those who did not get the chance to achieve the American Dream. Many people all over this country have worked HARD in factories all their lives, while others have things handed to them and advance WITHOUT working for it.

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Have you seen Obamas house lately.

Here is the difference, Obama & Hillary were born poor. McCain was not exactly poor, his Father was high ranking in the military and he married rich. I am not against people working hard to get things, my Grandfather was born DIRT POOR. He would get Apples & Oranges for Christmas as a child, - everything he now has, an upper middle class living in Eagle Point, Oregon, - he has got on his knees. He worked hard to achieve the American dream, - and he did it. However these days, it's getting harder and harder to do that. And for many people it's not even an option, even if you do work hard. These days the American dream is a matter of luck. And the fact is, that as I said before, those who have had everything handed to them throughout their lives, should NOT be taxed twice as less as the Average American, - Warren Buffet, the third richest person on the planet and billionaire, paid twice as little on his taxes as his secretary who makes 60,000 a year. Is that just? Answer that question.

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Here is the difference, Obama & Hillary were born poor. McCain was not exactly poor, his Father was high ranking in the military and he married rich. I am not against people working hard to get things, my Grandfather was born DIRT POOR. He would get Apples & Oranges for Christmas as a child, - everything he now has, an upper middle class living in Eagle Point, Oregon, - he has got on his knees. He worked hard to achieve the American dream, - and he did it. However these days, it's getting harder and harder to do that. And for many people it's not even an option, even if you do work hard. These days the American dream is a matter of luck. And the fact is, that as I said before, those who have had everything handed to them throughout their lives, should NOT be taxed twice as less as the Average American, - Warren Buffet, the third richest person on the planet and billionaire, paid twice as little on his taxes as his secretary who makes 60,000 a year. Is that just? Answer that question.

No its not just. I've always been a proponent of the flat tax.

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And the fact is, that as I said before, those who have had everything handed to them throughout their lives, should NOT be taxed twice as less as the Average American

What are you talking about? The upper 5% of society pay 57.1% of taxes and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% of taxes. The rich are taxed a hell of a lot more than the poor, not twice as less. With those tax figures, if Warren Buffet really paid less taxes than his secretary, than his accountant should be made Secretary of the Treasury right now. Also, Warren Buffet wasn't born rich. He is a self made millionare.

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Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

America has a huge disparity in income between its richest and its poorest citizens. In 2000 the richest 5% made 19x more than the poorest 20%. the heavy taxes that affect the middle class all but assure that you'll never become super-wealthy.

It seems like those who can afford to pay higher taxes are the ones that don't have to.

Also wrong on the other front. He was the son of an influential stock broker.

Also you are talking about in total money, - which means nothing. Percentage is the only number that matters. 30% of $30,000 is nothing to people like Warren Buffet, and everything to the Middle and Lower class. The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans.

I also highly doubt those exact numbers.

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Wait wait wait wait wait.

You can't say:

Also you are talking about in total money, - which means nothing. Percentage is the only number that matters.

And then later come back with:

The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans.

Screw your lame anecdote about one particular millionaire and his one particular secretary. I haven't seen their tax returns, so I can't judge them either way. I'll take you at your word that he said that. BFD. The fact is that the top marginal tax rate (we'll assume a single person) is 35% for everything over $357,700. The top middle class marginal tax rate is 25% for your taxable income between $32,550 and $78,850. And remember that taxable income up to 32 grand is taxed at a lower rate. Oh, and the personal exemption is a much more significant chunk of middle class income ("30% of $30,000 is nothing to people like Warren Buffet, and everything to the Middle and Lower class." Hey, maybe you know more than you think!). The point is that the average millionaire pays a higher percentage of his or her income in taxes than does the average middle-class earner.

Let's all stop saying "twice as less" too. It means nothing and sounds stupid.

The second part I quoted up there ("160 times greater") goes completely the other way off the deep end. That 160 times figure is based on, wait for it, raw dollar figures. "Total money", which, we all know, means nothing. Percentage is the only number that matters. The Bush tax cuts removed all tax liability from a huge chunk of taxpayers at the bottom of the income scale. Their Percentage, which is the only number that matters, of tax relief was 100. 100% tax cut! That's a good deal! The wealthiest taxpayers are footing more of the bill now than before. Why are they getting so much of the raw dollars? Because they're the ones paying all the damn taxes! The rich foot the bill for the rest of us.

It is true that further tax cuts would give most of their "total money" benefits to the rich. But that's because it is hard to cut taxes for people who aren't paying any. I'm solidly middle class, but, with 3 kids, I didn't wind up paying any federal income tax last year (I paid a little to the state, but my governor is a socialist). I just don't see how it hurts me for someone richer than me to get to keep more of his money, since he's the one paying the bills on my behalf. The only thing I could see would be jealousy on my part. But I'm not jealous of people who have it better than I do. Life's too short.

Oh, and "refundable tax credits" aren't tax cuts, they're socialism.

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i still think either Obama should be moved to 3, or Palin to two. She's been governor only 3 months more than he's been running for president, and prior to that was mayor of town drastically smaller then the district obama represented in the state senate.

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I would put both Pallin and Obama at 2...both are, in my mind, very similar in that category. The only tipper for me would be that Obama had to win a Senate race in Illinois over a governorship in a fairly small state, but that's offset by the fact his opponent was a joke.

I know with my Canadian scenarios, I generally go:

1-Inexperience is a crippling issue.

2-Inexperience is an issue, some legislative/financial experience.

3-High ranking Cabinet post provincially/Federally, involvement with policy; Or presumed to be ready by media/populace.

4-Short-term incumbent; High ranking inner Cabinet positions.

5-Multiple term incumbent.

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Here's how I would do it

1-Never held office or held only state level postions for less then 5 years

2-house of repersenatives for less then 5 years or state level postion for 5+ years

3-Governor or Senator for less then 5 years, Repersenative for 5+ years, or State Congressman for 15+ years

4-Governor or Senator for 5+ years, Repersenative for 15+ years, or Cabinet postion or Congressional Leadership Postion such as Speaker of the House/Minority Leader ect. Vice Presidents

5-Incumbent President or Governor/Senator for 15+ years, so according to me Obama's a 3 Pallin's a 3, McCain and Biden I think are 5s

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