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Sean

1968 (with Primaries)

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but I can't see MLK's father being a net bonus given the year and given the groups Kennedy appealed to (lower middle class "blue-collar" people, combined with black and poor people).

I'd have thought it would have an effect on Democratic turn-out in the South, more black voters registered through local churches.

However fundraisers are already putting a steep call on EP resources, so this might be a question of running advertising or dedicating a full week of time to one state.

I think the whole fundraising system in the game is clearly geared far more towards modern campaigning. Something I'd like to experiment with for pre-1970s scenarios is significantly linking fundraising to endorsements, and cutting the amount gained from the fundraising activity. More PIPs per candidate, and far more endorsers across the board. Might replicate the way getting local figures on side provides a financial and delegate boost.

If it works ideally, the player could, say, gamble that by investing enough PIPs to carry all the endorsers in California, he'll raise enough money to use advertising in other states to balance the lack of endorsers there.

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I'd have thought it would have an effect on Democratic turn-out in the South, more black voters registered through local churches.

However MLK was just killed (so, kind of crass), and having MLK's dad working for you is a good way to turn off blue collar people—and damage Kennedy's chances among whites in the general election in the South.

I think the whole fundraising system in the game is clearly geared far more towards modern campaigning. Something I'd like to experiment with for pre-1970s scenarios is significantly linking fundraising to endorsements, and cutting the amount gained from the fundraising activity. More PIPs per candidate, and far more endorsers across the board. Might replicate the way getting local figures on side provides a financial and delegate boost.

If it works ideally, the player could, say, gamble that by investing enough PIPs to carry all the endorsers in California, he'll raise enough money to use advertising in other states to balance the lack of endorsers there.

Ever played against a human? Wouldn't work, because humans are far better at trying to nab endorsements than the computer. Plus micro-managing endorsements on a state-by-state basis is a recipe for frustration in my opinion.

However I do agree with you that the game functions much better with modern elections, and I have real worries about simulating 1960.

What I did for 1968 was the following:

Background fundraising if resting brings in hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Activities cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, to cancel that out. (I had to do it like that because the variables for background and Activity: Fundraising are not separated.)

A Fundraiser can bring anywhere from half to several million dollars, at a high cost of EP/CP.

In a normal "modern" game fundraising is far too low (at least for 2008, given how much the Democrats are raking in) so you're basically relying on your starting funds.

In 1968 you can raise a ton of money—if you stop barnstorming.

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However I do agree with you that the game functions much better with modern elections, and I have real worries about simulating 1960.

The convention business is fairly hellish. No idea how you could realistically model a convention floor-fight. I mean, with the way it currently works, the closest you could get would be the game going into turns of 3 hours for the convention, and you'd need to throw PIPs and money at various states. Unless of course there was a whole new chunk added to the game.

In 1968 you can raise a ton of money—if you stop barnstorming.

Yeah, I noticed that once I'd wrapped up the nomination by getting Connally to endorse me, the money stacked up before the convention.

Anyway, I'm going to have a crack at the general with George Wallace next, see if I can create a bit of a stir.

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I've started a game with George Romney since he has a base of only 7 CPs a turn to Rockefeller's 14. I'll send you a report as to how tough it is to win the GOP nomination.

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I noticed that despite Humphery having a majority of delegates, Kennedy pulled out a win...seems he too had an asterisk next to his delegate count. I'm not complaining, because I was Kennedy, but still....kind of weird.

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The convention business is fairly hellish. No idea how you could realistically model a convention floor-fight. I mean, with the way it currently works, the closest you could get would be the game going into turns of 3 hours for the convention, and you'd need to throw PIPs and money at various states. Unless of course there was a whole new chunk added to the game.

I wrote up some proposals about convention states and the National convention scattered around in bits and pieces.

More detail on a, b, and c are in the linked thread, but basically I suggested:

a) Convention states added to the current Open/Closed Primary, Caucus states. This simulates pre-1972 Dem, pre-1976 Rep. local boss model. Alternatively rename Caucus, Caucus-Convention states. Perhaps rejig current modelled states.

B) new "establishment / perceived winnability" added to candidates, so you can simulate how much the party apparatus likes/supports them (Humphrey/Nixon in 1968). This would go up and down based on how you're doing, but in 1968 for instance you'd have to win most primaries to have a shot at "convention" type delegates, who wouldn't think you could win otherwise.

c) Convention states are simulated differently—barnstorming/ads/speeches don't matter, organization (FootSoldiers, or expanded options) matter.

d) Delegate tracking system. Here you use (slowly replenishing at a set rate) PIPs to influence delegates before the convention.

e) National Convention, where you run a floor operation with money / footsoldiers / staff / news spin and so forth combined with the delegate tracking system in x hour turns.

d and e would optionally be enabled, as they don't have much point in post 1980 scenarios. Likewise a and c didn't really matter by that time, and would be off simply by lack of use. b, on the other hand, could still be used to simulate party support of people like Bush in 2000, Dole in 1996, Mondale in 1984 and so on. A boost to endorsers?

I noticed that despite Humphery having a majority of delegates, Kennedy pulled out a win...seems he too had an asterisk next to his delegate count. I'm not complaining, because I was Kennedy, but still....kind of weird.

It's a known bug, that seems to have no cause.

Now that I know it's still there I might go rooting around in the files themselves instead of Campaigns Forever.

Regardless until / if I get it fixed, consider the bug the convention floor fight :).

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Am I right in thinking that when Kennedy jumps in, he gets a big boost on Leadership and the other candidates all take a hit? I'm not sure the others should be penalized, though having Kennedy get rewarded makes some sense.

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Off hand Kennedy gets a momentum boost and I really don't remember if the other candidates get hit. If the other people are penalized I'll change that.

Forthcoming:

Given the new tools of setting how large a boost people get out of winning primaries, I'm revamping the scenario to handle that. The primaries that mattered—N.H., Indiana, California, and so on will now get large newspaper headlines. Thus winning the primaries should become more of the focus—win them all and the other states should naturally shift (or if you're Humphrey, stay with you).

This, as with all tinkering to the Rube Goldberg machine that is much of the scenario, will require more playtesting. Round 6 will roll out sometime in the near future.

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Please send it to me whenever you get a chance. I really look forward to playing and providing feedback. chrisgrohman@cox.net. Thanks in advance!

I'd love to play this scenario as well. Can you e-mail it to davidtheaspie@gmail.com ?

Thanks :)

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Anyways, I was doing something when I thought of this, and decided to get on 80soft.com just to post.

Shouldn't a house rule also be, that if you turn on Johnson, to turn off Kennedy as well?

Kennedy refused to run against Johnson, until Johnson stepped down from the primaries.

Bolded because most people don't read random posts, and I thought this was important.

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I read every post, thanks.

Although RFK didn't run against Johnson prior to McCarthy's second place victory he did enter the race before Johnson withdrew in favour of Humphrey.

Timeline:

12 March. Johnson gets what is perceived as a narrow victory against McCarthy.

16 March. Kennedy announces he is entering the race.

31 March: Johnson withdraws.

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Release candidate 1 has been emailed out. Barring anything showstopping we're moving to general release soon.

Ok. I've won as RFK, Reagan, McCarthy, and Rockefeller so all four can be done. Humphrey and Nixon are easy enough against a computer. McCarthy is probably the toughest. As in real life if either Rockefeller or Reagan had properly conducted campaigns they had a good shot at winning—it is thus in the scenario.

Against another human player it's hard. As human Nixon, either human Rockefeller or human Reagan can keep stealing states from under you—generally speaking undecided break far way from Nixon. The best I've received is 25.1 points straight up in N.H. as every single undecided person in the state voted for me and Nixon's 24.8 point lead died in the snow.

As Humphrey it's not so bad, but you usually see undecided break 2-1 against.

As human McCarthy versus human RFK you find yourself bogged down in the same states and desperately trying to prevent Humphrey from getting the nomination.

As human Reagan versus human Rockefeller you can usually take down Nixon between you, and then slog it out to the convention.

The scenario now starts the 30 of January to include RFK saying he couldn't see any circumstance under which he'd seek the nomination as well as the Tet offence. Starting a month earlier makes it possible to win N.H. but it is very tough, and rather uncertain.

Overall the additional time makes the scenario easier which means Rethink Nixon has been mostly eliminated.

I've tinkered with momentum. Winning primaries is pretty much the only thing that gives you big headlines. Those headlines are the main weapon you have to shake non-primary states free of Humphrey/Nixon's grip. Further, if you can a favourite son to endorse you major states like Ohio can be seized. Endorsements are also vitally important.

Older notes can be found by scrolling back, and House Rules etc… remain the same.

Credits

Scenario by Electric Monk & mokbubble2, with additional assistance by Forgotten Moderate.

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Yeah I don't get it and at least one other person has reported the problem. Send me a save game just before it crashes and I'll forward it to the Dev Team.

Also, who are you playing as and what's the set-up?

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