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thespecialist09

Winning as the Tories?

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I've gone through the game 3 times now (moderate difficulty) and I can't seem to poll higher that 20-some percent with the Tories (Michael Howard in charge).

The frustrating part is that I always seem to be doing alright (polling even with Labour) at around the 2 week part, but it somehow seems to fall apart by election day. This last time around I was 2 pts ahead of Labour with 14 days til the election and I ended up losing by about 10 pts. I had a devastating -9 effect integrity scandal that I had trouble getting rid of but....12 pts!??

I've been campaigning on Tax & Spend, Leadership and Fox Hunting. Not sure that I understand the effect of 'target seats'....maybe thats it.

Starting to annoy me how I can be 5 pts ahead in the polls in the SW the night before the election but always lose it to the Lib Dems. Can't make a dent in the North, Wales etc. Polling in the teens. East Anglia and the Midlands are close, but its very difficult even if I concentrate campaigning down south.

Help plz.

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The Tories are pretty much dead outside of England so it's not worth your money trying to campaign in Wales and Scotland and especially Northern Ireland. Your best bet is to concentrate on the South West, East Anglia, London and the Midlands. You'll win the South East no sweat, and you can probably write off the North unless Labour absolutly collapse. Make sure you run lots of positive Experience ads, and some negative Blair Integrity ads. It may also be work attacking the Lib Dems too, as most of their gains are actually Tory seats. Don't limit yourself to Tax and Spend + Fox Hunting - you should check the regional platform centers and campaign on the issues that fit depending on where you are (eg. if you're in the South West, don't do a speech on ID Cards - do one on the E.U.).

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Make sure that if you campaign on a given issue or run an ad on it that you're running it in areas where your position is near the regional centre of that issue...running something at -2 can probably do more harm than good.

I almost never run issue ads...attribute ads (Experience, Integrity, and Leadership) are a lot more effective. Consider using two pro-Howard ads and one attacking Kennedy and Blair each or one pro-Howard, one anti-Kennedy, and two anti-Blair ads. Just ideas...I have yet to campaign as the Tories...I tend to prefer playing the LibDems.

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Yes, it's odd how the Tory campaign always falls apart. Even taking most of the momentum building endorsements does not help.

Despite being in second place, the Tories always get hit with the scandals, instead of the front-running Labour. In previous games it was always the front-runner that became the primary target for scandals.

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Yes, it's odd how the Tory campaign always falls apart. Even taking most of the momentum building endorsements does not help.

Despite being in second place, the Tories always get hit with the scandals, instead of the front-running Labour. In previous games it was always the front-runner that became the primary target for scandals.

Well, judging by the polls this weekend it seems fairly realistic. Labour landslide looks on the cards.

But I finally managed to win a game by switching the leader from Michael Howard to a custom created one who had more integrity and stamina. Did very well too. 331 seat majority and 36% of the vote. Won the Midlands, SW, SE, East Anglia and London. Came bloody close in Yorkshire and Scotland too.

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The Tories badly screwed up their election campaign. If we can guide the campaign properly in this simulation, we should end up with more than the 30% that the Tories are recieving in real life with all their problems.

By running a good campaign many of you have no doubt found yourself at this spot.

before5bp.jpg

From here everything goes downhill without fail. If you research one scandal, you're lucky. Attack ads backfire one after the other. Speeches will even backfire (I've never ever had a speech backfire in any of the 80soft games). This is so one-sided it's maddening. Even though the Tories are losing in real life, at one point they were very close to Labour in the polls and could have won if everything had gone their way.

In this game, if everything goes your way you'll end up with results like this:

after0ok.jpg

And that is on easy.

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What I would recommend doing is devote your cash to attacking Blair on the attributes. I did this on Issue Familiarity and Leadership, and at week 3 I surpassed the majority mark!

Yet, it all went all downhill from there. :(

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I would just pose one question--When did 80soft get into the habit of putting games onto the market without having tested them first? This is the most God awful waste of 10 dollars I have ever blown. I could have given the money to a televangelist or a used car salesman or a bum on the street and it would have produced more net good for society than purchasing PM forever the British version. :unsure:

I have thoroughly enjoyed the Canada version with all its scenarios. PM Australia was pretty good too. Kudos to the 80's soft creators for those games. Kudos to them for all the effort they put into the options on this one, but I want to know how many bottles of Jameson's were consumed as they worked out the momentum mechanics of this one. I've entered the end of aweek with pluse 11.5 momentum with labour on 1.5 and the Lib dems on 3.7 and still lost ground in the opinon polls. :blink:

But playing this game several times on Medium Difficulty. with several different strategies I have discovered that nothing one does has any effect on the results. Labour nevel falls below 33-35% of the vote. The Tories never get above 32-33 and far more often get 29 or less.

You play the game and its as if you've bought a game where the object is to take a plane with no fuel with both wings clipped off and failed hydraulics and guider to a safe landing.

If this is Medium difficulty, What happens in the Hard version? Michael Howard, Oliver Letwin, Theresa May and the other 154 Tory MP's all gather in a Commons Committee Room and commit mass suicide? :blink:

This game was obviously a cruel joke released by Millbank or maybe the Socialist Workers Party.

How can a software company which has done so well for itself in the past, peform with such a spectacular ineptitude.

With regards to this gamem Let me twist Churchill-- Never Have so few owed so much to so many! :angry::angry::angry:

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I made my own candidate with stronger attributes than Howard and found out a few interesting things. :blink:

winner7qp.jpg

This map had Labour with a huge lead only days before.

It's still not easy to win even with a stronger candidate than Blair. Using the 8 command points that came with my candidate I grabbed all the newspaper and special interest endorsements. Momentum soared, but I still went down in the polls every week.

If it had not been for some scandals and highly effective attack ads on Blair in the last week, I would not have won even though the odds were purposely stacked against Labour for investigative purposes. Crazy. :huh:

In the last couple weeks Labour momentum soars for no apparent reason. They don't run ads, win endorsements, give speeches, but still their momentum shoots up and so does their support. This scenario seems more like a simulation of the last British election than the current one. There is no way Blair is this invulnerable. :(

It should not be impossible for Howard to make highly effective ads or research scandals, but it is. :angry:

This is a tough nut to crack, but maybe with all the changes we just haven't figured out the tricks to campaigning.

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I tried switching the Conservative leader from Howard to May, hoping for better results. I got them, but it was bittersweet. If I could figure out how Blair comes up with this much momentum I think I would be a winner in this scenario.

toomuchmomentum4mc.jpg

That's a lot of momentum.

In fact, on the easy setting Blair was able to maintain double-digit momentum through 6 straight scandals in the last couple weeks of the campaign. Yes, I was finally able to research some scandals by dumping Howard. The results end up looking something like this:

results5vw.jpg

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while i havn't got round to playing the tories yet, every game ive noticed has followed the paths everyone else has experiance. the last one i played as the liberal dem's, mainly focusing on the south west and south east. Hlaf way through the campaign the tories turned South west blue (was white b4), this remained the way until about 2.5 weeks out, when their vote just collapsed and Labor and the dems picked up the spoils.

Their wasn't any big scandels (nothing above 3), no major blunders yet blair seemed to get the big mo without doing much at all.

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Yes, winning with the Tories is extremely difficult.

I managed to achieve a Hung Parliament by:

- changing position on Europe to Withdraw immediately

- getting the anti-European endorsers to remove their support for UKIP and go Tory

- the luck of having scandal after scandal for Blair

Otherwise, inventing my own character helped as well.

But one interesting point: I chose Jack Straw as the Lab candidate and fought a deliberately poor campaign with few ads and quite a lot of negative news. Straw still gained a majority.

I've got to admit, this aspect of the game seems to have been rushed.

Oh, and another time, the Tories managed to gain a similar number of votes as the Libs in the South West BUT NO SEATS WHATSOEVER. Seat after seat had been lost by about 0.5%.

80 Soft - Are you thinking what we're thinking?

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Quote: Americanwhodislikescanada

I have thoroughly enjoyed the Canada version with all its scenarios. PM Australia was pretty good too. Kudos to the 80's soft creators for those games. Kudos to them for all the effort they put into the options on this one, but I want to know how many bottles of Jameson's were consumed as they worked out the momentum mechanics of this one. I've entered the end of aweek with pluse 11.5 momentum with labour on 1.5 and the Lib dems on 3.7 and still lost ground in the opinon polls.

Yes, I described exactly the same thing in another post.. My LibDem candidate kept 10+ (averaging 15) momentum for three and a half weeks in a row. My share of the vote did not increase! Meanwhile Tories and Labour were running about equal. Ended up with Me on 62 seats, Tories down to 100. :huh:

Another game I was playing a minor party (BTW this is a huge waste of time, whatever you do - has no effect). Same story, Tories hit by slightly higher scandal levels but Labour had just as money. Each time Tories plunged into negative 4, never saw Labour go under negative 1. Ended up with Labour - Tory - LibDem: 421 - 54- 131.

I really want to know what's been done to the mechanics in this update.

Even without the options I'm starting to think P4E was the better game.

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Actually it is possible to beat Labour. This was on easy level. Nothing special happened, LibDem tie with Labour in vote share. One factor may have been the large number of votes for minor parties (57).

conserv-min-a.jpg

Conserv 283 - 33%

Labour 218 - 26%

Liberal 88 - 26%

Regional

Scottish National 19 - 2%

Plaid Cymru 8 - 1%

Ulster Unionist 8 - 0%

Sinn Fein 4 - 0%

Social Democrat & Lab 3 - 0%

Democratic Unionist 3 - 0%

Minor

Independents 9 - 2% (Me)

Greens 2 - 1%

Respect Coalition 1 - 0%

No seats

UK Independence 0 - 2%

British National 0 - 0%

Alliance 0 - 0%

Here's the map:

conserv-min-b.jpg

Basically you need to use strategy and split the vote. Help the enemies of your main enemy in the regions you're not focussing on. Eg. Tories don't attack Plaid Cymru or the Scottish National party

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Yes, it's clear that the Tories can win when you're not playing them but...

I played a good campaign as Howard on Hard level. Scandal after scandal came but the Tories stayed ahead until 1 week before the poll, when the vote collapsed and the Tories ended up with 27, yes 27, seats. The computer-run LibDems got 175 seats!

I must admit that I'm not particularly impressed with this game so far. It seems to be based on regional swing - i.e. either the South West gives almost all its seats to the Conservatives or almost all its seats to Labour.

An update is needed, quickly.

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Hi everybody,

There are several possibilities here. The first is that the game dynamics are not working properly. The second is that some people are having some (statistically predictable) bad campaigns as the Tories, who are in a precarious spot compared to Labour. The third is that playing the Tories requires more skill than playing as Labour. The fourth is a combination of these. (A fifth is that the Tories are in danger of collapse in real life, due to structural aspects of the election that are being reflected in the game.)

The principle complaint seems to be that the Tories can be reduced to a relatively small number of seats.

My guess is that the following things are not trends, but statistically will happen from time to time (as they will happen to other parties): Tory ads backfiring more often than other parties'. It being more difficult to research scandals if you are a Tory (unless, of course, your opponent has a higher Integrity rating.)

Some questions:

1. Does the Tory vote collapse when the computer plays as the Tories?

2. If so, how often? (How many times have you seen this happen as opposed to not happening?) What difficulty level? What candidate are you playing?

3. How often does the Tory vote collapse when you play as the Tories? (How many times have you seen this happen as opposed to not happening?) What difficulty level?

4. When your vote collapses, is your national momentum greater than the other candidates? Is your momentum in the relevant regions, where a large number of Tory seats are in the balance, greater?

5. When your vote collapses, how do the overall percentages change for the parties? How does the percentage in the relevant regions, where a large number of Tory seats are in the balance, change?

6. What version of the game are you playing? (It says this on the start screen, or on the top of the main screen.)

Thanks,

Anthony Burgoyne

80soft.com

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Ok, it is possible that it is a statistical aberration; I was concerned because I've never seen that many bad campaigns in a row. As long as there is a path to winning, I'll be happy. I plan to play this scenario a lot to try to find some more answers.

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Tony,

I've played PMF UK once so far as Sinn Fein. On the easy computer level, I attained my party's goal of at least 4 seats (4 seats exactly). I did notice that, with the computer playing the Tories, they only ended up with a total of 23 seats at the end of the game. I really wasn't paying much attention to regional trends or vote tallies across England, Scotland, and Wales, as my attention was focused solely on Northern Ireland, so I can't answer your other questions. If I play the game again, and I notice a catastrophe of this electoral magnitude happening to the Tories, I will look into vote totals further to give you more information. Your points about the state of the Tories in this campaign, and the biases against them built into the British electoral system, are valid and have been noted by election observers and commentators.

I am playing version 1.00.2.

Keith A. Layton

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Remember, with everything that has gone wrong for them, the Tories are still polling at 30%. In this game, if everything goes well, the Tories will poll around 30%. Interesting.

I just had my best results ever by playing with Howard on medium. I disabled the economy and regionalism because the game is brutal enough without them. Check out this momentum.

momentum8ty.jpg

Blair has some strong sources of momentum (his leadership tends to skyrocket and stay in the stratosphere). You'll have to keep a close eye on his unbelieveable momemtum and constantly beat it down, you can't eliminate it, so try to take a few points off it. Use speeches to attack him, and hope they don't backfire. Try to make attack ads too, but you'll find they either have a power of zero, or they backfire. Naturally Blair's ads and speeches work fine, so he does have a huge advantage here. Just do the best you can.

You'll find yourself in the negatives in some issues, so make ads to bring them up to zero and alleviate some of that pressure. Again, good luck trying to make an effective ad.

Now look at what a week and half of solid momentum did to my campaign; and what an equal period of negative momentum did to Blair:

bestresults4ij.jpg

If I had not been lucky enough to research a medium ad, none of this would have been possible. My odds of getting a medium ad so far are about 1 in 10. You might have to play several times to get a break.

The other parties are your friends. Do not spin their news stories, let them get all the momentum they can. That means letting the Liberal-Democrats make gains on Labour. Whatever you do don't target ridings in the South-West unless you want to be the primary target of 2 parties instead of just Labour.

I managed to get an ad with the power of 4 to prop up Howard on the fox hunt issue, and finally an attack ad of 3 to hit Blair on an issue. You'll likely spend most of the game trying to get a few successful ads for the end, even if you spend the maximum on producing them.

incompetent6fc.jpg

Sigh. I do like a challenge, and if there is way to win this, I'll find it.

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i was rather bored so i thought it play as both blair and howard, doing exactly the same things the entire game to see if there was any tipped scales. and well... not really,

2 weeks out

labor 314 +.1

con 164 +6.1

ND 80 +11

1 week out

labor 282 -4.5

con 184 -.2

nd 96 +5.8

at the end

256 28% labor

179 27% con

153 31%!! New dems

it was played on medium, throughout the game i kept a record of every time each made press on each issue (i had them both give terrorism speaches on the same day, then went onto the next issue), both made the press an equal percentage.

both got one scandel each, with blair getting sting with a medium, howard geting a minor scandal agaisnt him (another party also got a minor scandal agaisnt howard.

the adds were about equally powerfull.

only one speech backfired, one of blairs

however blair was offered 5 interviews... howard 1..

howard got more bad special events, but also more good ones.

ofcourse the funniest thing is that the new dems polled the highest percent... but i think thats more of a result of trying to do this quickly and not trying my hardest with the candidates (i just skipped turns here and their inbetween speeches)

im not sure what it all means, but i dont think their is any inbuilt negatives (such as cons researching less scandals, worse adds etc.

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i dont think their is any inbuilt negatives (such as cons researching less scandals, worse adds etc.

That's good too know, I guess I just hit a streak of unbelievably bad luck.

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A lot of the difficulty will likely come from the electoral system itself. Based on a universal swing, even a Conservative popular victory of 3 points over Labour will create a Labour majority government, whereas the Conservatives will only secure majority with a 10 point victory.

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I've noticed the same phenomenon that a lot of you have mentioned. Just to be certain that it wasn't me, I tried playing the Canadian scenario. Sure enough, I had the same thing happen. The Tory vote collapsed in the last two weeks. I've played 10 times and won a minority government once....by about 5 seats.

My losses, however, have been really impressive. I've lost official party status once and nearly lost Alberta a few times. More than once I've been swept out of every province but that one.

Either the AI has been improved greatly, I suck at the new game mechanics, or something is wrong. I don't remember sucking so poorly in the old version.

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