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Will the Lincoln Project have an impact on the election?

Will the Lincoln Project have an impact on the election?  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. Have you seen any Lincoln Project Ads?

    • Yes
    • No
    • Just the one posted here just now.
  2. 2. Do you think the Lincoln Project will have any impact on the race?

    • Yes, it will excite Trump opposition and/or convert some voters to Biden.
    • No, it will only help Trump.
      0
    • No, it won't have any impact


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26 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I don't know. I'd hold my nose, vote for Trump and hope the 2nd term will be less damaging than the first one.

It would probably be more damaging because he doesn't have to worry about reelection, and he won't care who becomes president after him. However, you don't live here, so it's not like it matters. 

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23 minutes ago, vcczar said:

It would probably be more damaging because he doesn't have to worry about reelection, and he won't care who becomes president after him.

Maybe the trade war should prove he's able to step up to China. Once Trump doesn't need to to think about re-election he might get more sane. I don't know, at least that's what I hope for so America can rebuild itself.

25 minutes ago, vcczar said:

However, you don't live here, so it's not like it matters. 

Yeah unfortunately. However, the American president effects everyone in a certain way I guess.

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In what ways is Austria most affected by US policy?

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38 minutes ago, vcczar said:

In what ways is Austria most affected by US policy?

Well, Austria is part of the EU (which is a problem itself considering the current shape of the EU). The US course towards the EU does affect the nation as well, when we consider economical and trade issues. The US has troops stationed in Germany which might soon be stationed in Poland though. Austria borders Slovakia which itself borders Ukraine (this country seems so far away, but it's actually easily reachable only by travelling through Slovakia). No one knows if Russia will attempt to annex more parts of Ukraine or any other country. The answers to this might differ. If a large-scale war in Ukraine or even in Korea and Venezuela occurs we could also see a massive increase in refugees. I'd not say it's completely irrelevant who's in the White House even if you are not living in the US.

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3 minutes ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Well, Austria is part of the EU (which is a problem itself considering the current shape of the EU). The US course towards the EU does affect the nation as well, when we consider economical and trade issues. The US has troops stationed in Germany which might soon be stationed in Poland though. Austria borders Slovakia which itself borders Ukraine (this country seems so far away, but it's actually easily reachable only by travelling through Slovakia). No one knows if Russia will attempt to annex more parts of Ukraine or any other country. The answers to this might differ. If a large-scale war in Ukraine or even in Korea and Venezuela occurs we could also see a massive increase in refugees. I'd not say it's completely irrelevant who's in the White House even if you are not living in the US.

So how does Trump, rather than Biden, make this better for Austria. It seems a neocon-like policy is what you'd like, and Biden is probably more neo-con than Trump. He's also going to be more Free Trade than Trump, and it seems that protectionism doesn't really help countries outside of the US, generally speaking. 

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1 hour ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Maybe the trade war should prove he's able to step up to China. Once Trump doesn't need to to think about re-election he might get more sane. I don't know, at least that's what I hope for so America can rebuild itself.

Yeah unfortunately. However, the American president effects everyone in a certain way I guess.

We can "hope". But I think at best, it'll be the same as it is now. I'd rather not risk Iowan jobs, Iowan livelihoods, and our region as a whole to prove that he's able to stand up to China. Plus the sycophants that we call Senators aren't doing a dang thing besides wagging their fingers means that I'm hopeful Joni's going to lose her seat because of it.

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48 minutes ago, vcczar said:

So how does Trump, rather than Biden, make this better for Austria. It seems a neocon-like policy is what you'd like, and Biden is probably more neo-con than Trump. He's also going to be more Free Trade than Trump, and it seems that protectionism doesn't really help countries outside of the US, generally speaking. 

I'll respond tomorrow.

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3 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

I don't know. I'd hold my nose, vote for Trump and hope the 2nd term will be less damaging than the first one.

I'm sure a majority on the forum are glad you don't have a vote in the U.S. in 2020 (and I also think you'd make your choice for all the wrong reasons, because "party loyalty," as a concept, means too much to you to the point where you'd be willing to vote for failures, liars, criminals, and corrupt crooks just because of their party label - and whereas in Austria and South Korea, which are multi-party system where political parties in contention and significance rise and die in prominence - in a healthy political environment - it's not so harmful - in the two-party system of the U.S. ,where it's the same two parties for over 150 years, and the rigged, corrupt two-party system doesn't ALLOW that to meaningfully change, it can be a lot more foolish to vote strictly on party lines. I'm glad I don't have a vote in the U.S. in 2020, because it's another one of those horrid, no-win, damned-If-you-do-damned-if-you-don't, utter-failure-and-betrayal-by-the-American-engines-of-power-that-they-should-colectively-be-called-out-and-take-a-fall-for-but-won't-because-the-system's-rigged type of election, like 1852, 1920, 1968, 2004, and 2016, and I'm glad I would not have to make a Devil's choice (and have a hand in legitimizing one horrid choice or another, or "abdicating by civil duty," by voting for a Third Party or Independent candidate who is not ALLOWED to win in the rigged, corrupt system, or sitting at home, and getting at lot of social flack for that action). Frankly, we're both better off sitting this crapfest of an election out on our "not-a-citizen," card...

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2 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Austria borders Slovakia which itself borders Ukraine (this country seems so far away, but it's actually easily reachable only by travelling through Slovakia).

You can also go through Hungary. :P

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14 hours ago, Patine said:

I'm sure a majority on the forum are glad you don't have a vote in the U.S. in 2020

Well, others don't have a vote in Austria, neither of us has in Kazakhstan. 

14 hours ago, Patine said:

and I also think you'd make your choice for all the wrong reasons, because "party loyalty," as a concept, means too much to you to the point where you'd be willing to vote for failures, liars, criminals, and corrupt crooks just because of their party label

We won't find the perfect candidate, politics is about making the least worst choice since a long time. I am probably even more appalled by the choices we have in Austria. 

14 hours ago, Patine said:

and whereas in Austria and South Korea, which are multi-party system where political parties in contention and significance rise and die in prominence

That might be true for South Korea, where the currently oldest major political party might not be older than six years now, but major parties in Austria are old parties. Minor parties come and go though.

14 hours ago, Patine said:

like 1852, 1920, 1968, 2004, and 2016, and I'm glad I would not have to make a Devil's choice (and have a hand in legitimizing one horrid choice or another, or "abdicating by civil duty," by voting for a Third Party or Independent candidate who is not ALLOWED to win in the rigged, corrupt system, or sitting at home, and getting at lot of social flack for that action). Frankly, we're both better off sitting this crapfest of an election out on our "not-a-citizen," card...

I would not feel better if I abstain on election day to be honest. As you say perhaps we should lean back and don't care about our friends in America anymore :P

14 hours ago, Patine said:

You can also go through Hungary. :P

True, but I am probably closer to the Slovakian border. 

16 hours ago, vcczar said:

So how does Trump, rather than Biden, make this better for Austria. It seems a neocon-like policy is what you'd like, and Biden is probably more neo-con than Trump.

I long respected Biden, as I stated earlier, as a very likeable Democrat. But since people started to accuse him of getting too close to underage girls first followed by the appearance of Tara Reade, I realized he might not be so different concerning likability. We could also say I grew disappointed with Biden. Furthermore, people often said Hillary Clinton is no true liberal as she is a war hawk who voted for the Iraq War (which was done with failures) as did Biden. Some accuse Biden of being no liberal as well. I have no problem with that, but I have my reservation about all these assumptions. I could not imagine Biden to vote for the Iraq War again, even if we did not know about the failures. Democrats are pulling heavily to the left to appease the far-left. 29 Democrats in the Senate had voted for the Iraq War, but would Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman excite anyone anymore? I don't think the Sanders-Warren-AOC-Wing would let such a vote happen again, therefore I doubt Biden will have the potential to unfold his neocon position (which he might have lost during the years anyway). I am not sure if Biden would step up to Russia or China or any other country and electing Biden might send a wrong message to all the squad lovers around the world. Soon their demand will grow... 

16 hours ago, vcczar said:

He's also going to be more Free Trade than Trump, and it seems that protectionism doesn't really help countries outside of the US, generally speaking. 

That's a twofold problem I think. Can I be okay with it, when a lunatic sits in the White House and the Austrian chancellor is able to just call him for millions everyday? Of course more money for my home country would be nice, but that doesn't mean it's a good move from a broader perspective.

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On 6/26/2020 at 3:27 PM, Hestia11 said:

I'm surprised to see so many saying no impact. That's pretty complete and total. "Some" voters will likely be convinced by these ads, at least to move third party. 

I personally feel it is a by product of intense polarization that a good number find it hard to believe there are swayable voters this far in. I somewhat agree with that mindset, since Donald Trump's base will stick with him regardless of his performance. But there are swayable voters in large suburban communities that are not strong Trump-supporters. What is interesting is that the ads targeted at Trump usually invoke Reagan in some capacity.

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5 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Democrats are pulling heavily to the left to appease the far-left. 29 Democrats in the Senate had voted for the Iraq War, but would Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman excite anyone anymore?

And those Democrats are war criminals, criminals against humanity, and betrayers and violators of the U.S. Constitution just like the Republicans who voted en masse for these egregious acts and the Bush Administration - the biggest group of war criminals of the 21st Century thus far - that they enabled, committing these crimes by taking the embezzled taxpayers' money, lives of young men and women, national good reputation abroad, and guaranteed rights of due process, away from the taxpayers and citizens - allowing no binding consultation by the people at all for paying these horrible prices, and justifying them with blatant lies to cover up the fact that most of - ESPECIALLY the Iraq - was just for pure big corporate profit - makes these politicians despicable criminals and abdicators of their oaths of office who committed high treason and sedition against their own people and nation, not anyone to be admired or praised for such - and certainly NOT excited.

5 hours ago, Conservative Elector 2 said:

Sanders-Warren-AOC-Wing would let such a vote happen again, therefore

You, like @Reagan04, @jvikings1, and @servo75 often speak of politicians who believe government should use it's resources to better the lives of it's own people meaningfully rather than empower and enrich - and abdicate more and more essential government duties - to soulless, sociopathic, rapacious, morally-bankrupt, and socially ruinous big corporations by giving them more powers through deregulation and privatization to cheat their consumers with shoddy, cheap, and unsafe goods with no (or minimal) inspection or advertising laws and the power to run their employees into the ground with no labour protections or workers' rights laws. I just can't understand this wicked, vile, and inhuman vibe in otherwise good, decent, and moral people (well, I'm not so sure @servo75 is an otherwise good, decent, and moral person - but my message was more directed at you and the other two).

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

You, like @Reagan04, @jvikings1, and @servo75 often speak of politicians who believe government should use it's resources to better the lives of it's own people meaningfully rather than empower and enrich - and abdicate more and more essential government duties - to soulless, sociopathic, rapacious, morally-bankrupt, and socially ruinous big corporations by giving them more powers through deregulation and privatization to cheat their consumers with shoddy, cheap, and unsafe goods with no (or minimal) inspection or advertising laws and the power to run their employees into the ground with no labour protections or workers' rights laws.

Because you see Big Business like we see Big Government.

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Just now, Reagan04 said:

Because you see Big Business like we see Big Government.

As it currently stands, both are wretched, and both are evil institutions. But government can be reformed easier, because, by nature and in legal theory, it's a tool of the people and politicians are supposed to be public servants. Big Business lacks all such accountability, by it's nature, and will always seek self-serving profit over helping anyone else, and regulation from government is the ONLY meaningful way to reign in their evil and rapacious excesses - as, in the modern day of conglomerate, subsidiaries, and big buyouts, boycotts and consumer market pressures to affect odious corporate behaviour are just NOT viable anymore.

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It seems, by his last three reactions to my posts, that @SilentLiberty has developed a bleak, incoherent, gallows humour of hysteria, cackling maniacally at the absolutely crappy, grim, dystopian, and rotten state of the United States, and the world, today, like the "Apocalypse Clown," who just has no other possible reaction left to the mentionings of how bad things have really gotten - and been allowed to get. 😜

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@vcczar We did it! Bunker baby went on a full on rampage temper tantrum about the Lincoln Project last night on twitter shortly after an LP ad played on, you guessed it, Fox News. Trump literally fell right into the trap of the LP founder whose goal was to target them on Fox News at night so Trump would see them (particularly about how his weakness is making America weaker) and start crying on his favorite platform.

Almost too easy.

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3 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

@vcczar We did it! Bunker baby went on a full on rampage temper tantrum about the Lincoln Project last night on twitter shortly after an LP ad played on, you guessed it, Fox News. Trump literally fell right into the trap of the LP founder whose goal was to target them on Fox News at night so Trump would see them (particularly about how his weakness is making America weaker) and start crying on his favorite platform.

Almost too easy.

Awesome! Do you have a link with this story? I'd like to read it. 

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2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Awesome! Do you have a link with this story? I'd like to read it. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/lincoln-project-trolling-trump-sway-voters-341928

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11 hours ago, Patine said:

You, like @Reagan04, @jvikings1, and @servo75 often speak of politicians who believe government should use it's resources to better the lives of it's own people meaningfully rather than empower and enrich -

(well, I'm not so sure @servo75 is an otherwise good, decent, and moral person - but my message was more directed at you and the other two).

I never said anything of the sort, and I call on you to take back that sentence, sir. Personal insults have no place in a forum like this.

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11 hours ago, Patine said:

Big Business lacks all such accountability, by it's nature, and will always seek self-serving profit over helping anyone else, and regulation from government is the ONLY meaningful way to reign in their evil and rapacious excesses

Well, there you go again... Free market capitalism is the only thing keeping business under control. What? You think government regulation is the answer? Where are these angelic and perfect government regulators you libs always think are better than the market forces. Yes businesses seek profit, that's kind of the idea. Do you think all corporate activity is evil and rapacious, because you seem to imply that and make no distinctions. If a business treats its customers or employees badly, it will soon find itself devoid of both. The market ALWAYS knows best.

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8 hours ago, servo75 said:

Well, there you go again... Free market capitalism is the only thing keeping business under control. What? You think government regulation is the answer? Where are these angelic and perfect government regulators you libs always think are better than the market forces. Yes businesses seek profit, that's kind of the idea. Do you think all corporate activity is evil and rapacious, because you seem to imply that and make no distinctions. If a business treats its customers or employees badly, it will soon find itself devoid of both. The market ALWAYS knows best.

A market can't know anything. It isn't a sentient being. It is a system. Although a system will have pros and cons like a human.  

I wonder what you think of the Pure Food and Drug Act and the Meat Inspection Act. 

Stop thinking in absolutes. It's a primitive way of thinking. The market has both good and bad aspects and aspects in between. Regulations have both good and bad aspects and aspects in between. Sometimes the both of them are mutually beneficial and not opposing forces. It's sort of how Capitalism and Socialism can be mutually beneficial to one another. 

 Sometimes I think you live in this sort of Ron Paul cookie-cutter philosophy that's just been laid out for you and you take the lazy path of just adopting the entire thing without even thinking. It's easy to parrot things and be a stereotype. However, cookie cutter, ready-made political philosophies are often going to be wrong or obsolete because they are inflexible. The world generally moves. History generally moves. What works one year won't necessarily work the same the next year. Etc. 

There will be times when a Libertarian plan, a conservative plan, a liberal plan, a progressive plan, a moderate plan, a socialist plan, or most often, a mixed ideology plan is the best solution for a single problem. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 11:49 AM, vcczar said:

I'm kind of surprised @jvikings1 had never seen the Lincoln Project ads. 

I probably would've seen them if I had been at home with time to watch tv. But, I was out of state for some campaign work, so I haven't watched lived tv for over a month.

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19 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

I probably would've seen them if I had been at home with time to watch tv. But, I was out of state for some campaign work, so I haven't watched lived tv for over a month.

They’re also on Twitter 

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