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"Are You Better Off Than You Were 4 Years Ago?" Poll

"Are You Better Off Than You Were 4 Years Ago?" Poll  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. In four months--on Election Day--, do you think the majority of Americans will be able to say that they are better off than they were four years ago?

  2. 2. Which of the following presidents made American better off compared to their predecessor? Which of these is true?

    • Americans were better off after 4 years with Trump than with Obama's last four years.
    • Americans were better off after 4 years with Obama than with Bush II's last four years.
    • Americans were better off after 4 years with Bush II than with Clinton's last four years.
    • Americans were better off after 4 years with Clinton than with Bush I's last four years.
    • Americans were better off after 4 years with Bush I than with Reagan's last four years.
    • Americans were better off after 4 years with Reagan than with Carter's last four years.
    • Each president was worse for American's than their predecessor.
      0
  3. 3. Will Pres. Biden be a better president than Trump? i.e. Will America be better off in four years than they are now?

  4. 4. What are the chances that Trump wins reelection based on what you think will happen between now and election day?

    • Guaranteed 10 out of 10
      0
    • About 9 out of 10
      0
    • About 8 out of 10
      0
    • About 7 out of 10
      0
    • About 6 out of 10 (lean Trump)
    • About 5 out of 10 (total tossup)
    • About 4 out of 10 (lean Biden)
    • About 3 out of 10
    • About 2 out of 10
    • About 1 out of 10
      0
    • Guaranteed defeat 0 out of 10
      0
  5. 5. What is your opinion of 3rd Parties? Click all that are true.

    • It should be encouraged in this election, so as to oe day become a major party or influence the major parties.
    • While I prefer the 3rd parties to the major parties, I think anyone voting 3rd party is naively helping Trump.
    • While I prefer the 3rd parties to the major parties, I think anyone voting 3rd party is naively helping Biden.
      0
    • Having little impact on the election and are wasting their time and their vote so long as we have an electoral college and a single-round voting system.
    • Are close to traitors for screwing up the election results, especially in battleground states.
    • I am okay with it, and I might support them, but they'll likely never be major parties and they may never have much of an influence.
    • 3rd parties should be eliminated in the general election unless they are polling a certain significant % within a month of the election.
    • I hope both major parties collapse and we end up with like 3 or 4 major parties, even if it means no one ever gets 270 EVs and the House decides every election.
    • I have a positive view of the 3rd parties in theory, but I have a negative view of them in practice.
    • Jill Stein cost Hillary Clinton the election.
    • Gary Johnson cost Hillary Clinton the election.
    • Ralph Nader cost Al Gore the election.
    • Ross Perot cost GHW Bush the election.
    • John Anderson cost Jimmy Carter the election.
    • If you selected that any of these above people cost a nominee the election, were we better off with the winner than we were with the losing nominee?
    • Would the US be better off with a parliamentary system like in Canada or the UK, which might allow 3rd parties more influence?
    • The Green Party will one day be a major party.
    • The Libertarian Party will one day be a major party.
    • Third Parties should evolve and compromise in order to expand their umbella and excite more registered voters outside of their purists base, otherwise they'll never have a chance at 270 EVs.
    • Third Parties would destroy the major parties if the Electoral College were abolished.
    • Third Parties would destroy the major parties if the Electoral College were abolished and if there was a multi-round or multi-rank voting system.
    • Third Parties would destroy the major parties if they got equal air time and debate participation with the major parties.
    • I will see a 3rd party president in my lifetime.
    • Other regarding 3rd parties.


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"Would the US be better off with a parliamentary system like in Canada or the UK, which might allow 3rd parties more influence?"

Does a check mark mean I'm answering yes?

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

New poll

In terms of the pure TITLE of the thread - no, I'd say I am not as well as I was four years ago. However, the individual poll questions don't exactly line up to determine why or why not where I live, so I all I can say is that first statement above. I would estimate, based on news reports, zeitgeist, and many, many people on the Internet, that I am somewhat more well off than the average American - both now and four years ago.

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Not American, but my answer (if it counts) would certainly be yes.

The part what particularly intrigued me about this post was the fact that there seems to be some support for the notion that having a Westminster style FPTP system in the United States would benefit the third parties there.  In my mind, the closest thing to that the United States has to a legitimate third party is the Libertarian Party, which is basically a walking meme.  From what I gather, even the US Greens are basically non-existent in terms of state presence and organizational structure.  Interesting.

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I am better off than I was before Trump was elected.

Of course I am.

I am a straight white man who already had money when Trump was elected.  My net worth and power has only continued to grow.

But the country is not made up exclusively or even predominately by straight white men with money.  

My daughter is white and being raised in a household with money, but she is not a man -- she is worse off in a country that says not only can she be sexually assaulted and the perpetrator can get away with it...but if he is caught on camera BRAGGING about it, and the whole country hears the confession from his own lips, they still might ELECT HIM PRESIDENT just one month later.  She's not better off in that country.

Her two best friends are a black girl and a Muslim girl.  They are even less safe than my daughter is.  She is not better off when she has to worry about whether her own best friends will be the victim of violence by someone who was inspired by the President of the United States.

I am better off, but I have not received so much more money that I am willing to sell my soul in exchange.

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58 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I am better off than I was before Trump was elected.

Of course I am.

I am a straight white man who already had money when Trump was elected.  My net worth and power has only continued to grow.

But the country is not made up exclusively or even predominately by straight white men with money.  

My daughter is white and being raised in a household with money, but she is not a man -- she is worse off in a country that says not only can she be sexually assaulted and the perpetrator can get away with it...but if he is caught on camera BRAGGING about it, and the whole country hears the confession from his own lips, they still might ELECT HIM PRESIDENT just one month later.  She's not better off in that country.

Her two best friends are a black girl and a Muslim girl.  They are even less safe than my daughter is.  She is not better off when she has to worry about whether her own best friends will be the victim of violence by someone who was inspired by the President of the United States.

I am better off, but I have not received so much more money that I am willing to sell my soul in exchange.

I'd say your daughter is better off...

The MeToo Movement which is now SpeakingOut. It's never so empowering to be female as it is in 2020. Doesn't matter who the President is. The future is female. 

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7 minutes ago, SilentLiberty said:

I'd say your daughter is better off...

The MeToo Movement which is now SpeakingOut. It's never so empowering to be female as it is in 2020. Doesn't matter who the President is. The future is female. 

We'll see.  The future may be female, but she still has to live in the present.  We need better leadership.

It's nice that there's a hashtag for support, but it doesn't mean much when men are still elected President and confirmed to the Supreme Court despite significant evidence or even a taped confession of numerous sexual assaults.

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2 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

We'll see.  The future may be female, but she still has to live in the present.  We need better leadership.

And Joe Biden, who is even creeper toward girls is better leadership for females? Better leadership in general? 

At least with Trump people do speak up and call him out on his shit. Biden's been using his positions of power for years to do creepy things and if he gets called out on it, it gets met with "Trump is evil!" 

So 2020's a dud year and if I had a daughter I'd feel pretty bad that no one in a position of power has ever said anything about Biden, and I'd feel even worse once he was elected and still no one in a position of power says anything. 

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1 minute ago, SilentLiberty said:

And Joe Biden, who is even creeper toward girls is better leadership for females? Better leadership in general? 

At least with Trump people do speak up and call him out on his shit. Biden's been using his positions of power for years to do creepy things and if he gets called out on it, it gets met with "Trump is evil!" 

So 2020's a dud year and if I had a daughter I'd feel pretty bad that no one in a position of power has ever said anything about Biden, and I'd feel even worse once he was elected and still no one in a position of power says anything. 

If Biden is guilty, then I hope he goes to jail for it.  For now, I haven't seen compelling evidence that that's the case, but I remain open to the possibility.

Meanwhile, we have Trump not just confessing but BRAGGING about all of the sexual assaults he has committed.

Biden wasn't my choice for the nomination, but he's worlds ahead of Trump on all matters of equality.

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13 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

and confirmed to the Supreme Court

Not this again ... The Blasey Ford allegations are extremely weak. They wouldn't hold up in a court of law. She has no corroboration of her claims. There were no contemporary claims of it happening. And on and on.

What you're asking for is any public figure who is alleged to have done something 30 years ago to be guilty before proven innocent.

It's a terrible standard to set.

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9 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

If Biden is guilty, then I hope he goes to jail for it.  For now, I haven't seen compelling evidence that that's the case, but I remain open to the possibility.

Meanwhile, we have Trump not just confessing but BRAGGING about all of the sexual assaults he has committed.

Biden wasn't my choice for the nomination, but he's worlds ahead of Trump on all matters of equality.

"America’s “Creepy Uncle Joe” as people stood by and watched. One of the more awkward moments from the Joe Biden inappropriate behavior reel is his whispering, grabbing, and ultimately trying to kiss Delaware Senator Chris Coon’ daughter Maggie. She is 13. Coons defended Biden saying that “he was being Joe” and it was just his way of being “thoughtful and sweet” to a young girl in the spotlight. Ultimately, what else could he say? Biden being Biden is an acceptable explanation to the media watching, what is a senator from the vice president’s party supposed to do?"

And this was from 2015.

This is a case of one bragging, having locker room talk(I remember after that surfaced and Pence gave his speech at the RNC, I was parroting how he should be the nominee and they should dump Trump) and the other being quiet, hiding his deeds, and trying to say he's from a different era. 

Edited by SilentLiberty
Quiet not quite lol oops

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3 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Not this again ... The Blasey Ford allegations are extremely weak. They wouldn't hold up in a court of law. She has no corroboration of her claims. There were no contemporary claims of it happening. And on and on.

What you're asking for is any public figure who is alleged to have done something 30 years ago to be guilty before proven innocent.

It's a terrible standard to set.

I'm asking that serious allegations actually be considered, not dismissed out of hand based on political affiliation.  

I was among the first calling for Senator Al Franken's resignation, because we can't cry foul over the President of the United States endorsing a known child molester if we aren't willing to clean up our own house first.

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16 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I'm asking that serious allegations actually be considered, not dismissed out of hand based on political affiliation.  

They were considered by the Senate! And found to be lacking, as there was no corroborating evidence, the other supposed witnesses either couldn't remember or disputed her account, and so on.

You've gone from

"It's nice that there's a hashtag for support, but it doesn't mean much when men are still [...] confirmed to the Supreme Court despite significant evidence [...] of numerous sexual assaults."

to 

"I just want serious allegations to be considered"

They *were* considered, and found lacking.

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The Tara Reade allegation against Biden is arguably stronger. We know she worked in his office, she has filed a police report, and we have contemporary evidence which may substantiate her claim.

Why so certain about Kavanaugh, but supporting Biden for President?

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9 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

They were considered by the Senate! And found to be lacking, as there was no corroborating evidence, the other supposed witnesses either couldn't remember or disputed her account, and so on.

You've gone from

"It's nice that there's a hashtag for support, but it doesn't mean much when men are still [...] confirmed to the Supreme Court despite significant evidence [...] of numerous sexual assaults."

to 

"I just want serious allegations to be considered"

They *were* considered, and found lacking.

They were not considered.  There was a performance with a foregone conclusion.

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4 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

The Tara Reade allegation against Biden is arguably stronger. We know she worked in his office, she has filed a police report, and we have contemporary evidence which may substantiate her claim.

Why so certain about Kavanaugh, but supporting Biden for President?

 

23 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I'm asking that serious allegations actually be considered, not dismissed out of hand based on political affiliation.  

I was among the first calling for Senator Al Franken's resignation, because we can't cry foul over the President of the United States endorsing a known child molester if we aren't willing to clean up our own house first.

Wouldn't Biden, just like Franken, need to be cleaned up first?

 

Franken had grabbed and groped a woman for pictures, as a joke(albeit wtf), Biden groped girls for what reason? 

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6 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

The Tara Reade allegation against Biden is arguably stronger. We know she worked in his office, she has filed a police report, and we have contemporary evidence which may substantiate her claim.

Why so certain about Kavanaugh, but supporting Biden for President?

I would happily support a candidate who can defeat Trump and wasn’t accused of sexual assault.  In fact, I did: Pete Buttigieg, with Elizabeth Warren as my backup.

Pete actually was briefly accused early on, but the accuser later admitted they’d been paid to make the accusation.  
 

Meanwhile, you have Trump who talks about his desire to “date” his own daughter and endorses a known child molester for the Senate because at least he isn’t a Democrat.

Im actually not going to allow you to normalize Donald Trump and pretend he’s the same as everyone else.

He absolutely is not.

 

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Just now, SilentLiberty said:

 

Wouldn't Biden, just like Franken, need to be cleaned up first?

 

Franken had grabbed and groped a woman for pictures, as a joke(albeit wtf), Biden groped girls for what reason? 

I'm still convinced that had not the Franken scandal occurred, that he would have been the best nominee to take on Trump....Imagine a candidate that is a comedian poking fun at Trump but at the same time is intelligent enough to be taken seriously. If Trump does get reelected, they can thank whomever help take Al Franken down as the first crucial step. No politician in the 21st century seemed as uniquely designed to take on Trump as Franken. He was also a killer on committees.

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1 minute ago, Actinguy said:

They were not considered.  There was a performance with a foregone conclusion.

The Senate delaying putting its confirmation process on hold for several weeks, bringing in the witness, giving her the most public platform you can imagine to make her claims, allowing equal questioning by each party, isn't enough for you?

You seem to be making an argument about what's in the Senators' hearts - fair enough. But the evidence that emerged in that process was clear - she had no corroborating evidence, her account wasn't corroborate by the supposed witnesses, and the person she claimed did this emphatically denied it. What standard are you going to hold people to? It sounds like 'guilty before proven innocent', an impossible standard for a he said-she said from 30 years ago.

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3 minutes ago, SilentLiberty said:

 

Wouldn't Biden, just like Franken, need to be cleaned up first?

 

Franken had grabbed and groped a woman for pictures, as a joke(albeit wtf), Biden groped girls for what reason? 

We had photos of Franken, just like we had the recording of Trump.  In both cases, independent of their political affiliation, I called for them to be removed.

If theres evidence of Biden groping girls, I’ll call on him to resign as well.  And I’m all for a real investigation (not a Republican performance) into that.

But in the meantime, my options are “accused of sexual assault, truth unknown” versus “brags about sexual assault.”

Im going to go against “brags about sexual assault” every time.  Shame on anyone who would defend him.

 

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1 minute ago, vcczar said:

I'm still convinced that had not the Franken scandal occurred, that he would have been the best nominee to take on Trump....Imagine a candidate that is a comedian poking fun at Trump but at the same time is intelligent enough to be taken seriously. If Trump does get reelected, they can thank whomever help take Al Franken down as the first crucial step. No politician in the 21st century seemed as uniquely designed to take on Trump as Franken. He was also a killer on committees.

I'm in the same boat as you. I also feel like Franken's political career isn't over but that's kind of up to him if he ever wants to try again. He is older so it's unlikely, but he was more or less a good politician regardless of party lines.  

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Just now, Actinguy said:

We had photos of Franken, just like we had the recording of Trump.  In both cases, independent of their political affiliation, I called for them to be removed.

If theres evidence of Biden groping girls, I’ll call on him to resign as well.  And I’m all for a real investigation (not a Republican performance) into that.

But in the meantime, my options are “accused of sexual assault, truth unknown” versus “brags about sexual assault.”

Im going to go against “brags about sexual assault” every time.  Shame on anyone who would defend him.

 

There is evidence of Biden doing that? Plenty of it?!? I even shared an article on it earlier...

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2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I'm still convinced that had not the Franken scandal occurred, that he would have been the best nominee to take on Trump....Imagine a candidate that is a comedian poking fun at Trump but at the same time is intelligent enough to be taken seriously. If Trump does get reelected, they can thank whomever help take Al Franken down as the first crucial step. No politician in the 21st century seemed as uniquely designed to take on Trump as Franken. He was also a killer on committees.

I was 100% behind Franken being the 2020 nominee until the allegations and photos came out.  Then I immediately called for the end of his career.

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Just now, Actinguy said:

I was 100% behind Franken being the 2020 nominee until the allegations and photos came out.  Then I immediately called for the end of his career.

Great. Now be consistent with Biden, and call on him to withdraw as the party's nominee.

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