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1 hour ago, admin_270 said:

You mean territories? Over-represented. ~30-40K per seat. National average is ~100K. Basically, for it to be proportionate, you could combine all 3 territories in 1 seat.

yukon and anothers are natives territory or what ? ?

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Just now, admin_270 said:
Just now, vcczar said:

Is the Canadian economy doing as well as the American economy? How does Trudeau compare as a candidate/nominee to say Biden, Warren, Sanders, etc. or to Obama? 

I think a big reason for the Liberals hanging onto a minority is that the Conservative leader Scheer was underwhelming to many Canadians. It seems Scheer's plan was to be as boring as possible.

If I were a Conservative party member, I would be looking carefully at who could replace him before the next election.

i think at this moment trudeau are hillary and scheer are similiar to mccain/romney boring weak candidate

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

I'm inclined to think Trudeau will figure something out. Are there term limits for PMs? 

All is fair in love and war (and politics ;) ). The other parties are waiting for a chance to cripple them.

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As I said earlier today

Bloc officially consult jurists to trigger a recount in Quebec city.

This is the seat of the Liberal Minister Jean Yves Duclot.

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39 minutes ago, victorraiders said:

bernier have win conservative leadership will have more voters /seats

Depends on the platform he would have run on. He moved to the right after leaving the Conservative party. He's more charismatic than Scheer, but he isn't fluent in English and so it makes it difficult to understand him at times.

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38 minutes ago, victorraiders said:

yukon and anothers are natives territory or what ? ?

Not sure what you mean here. The Yukon is a territory. No necessary connection with First Nations, but having said that the Yukon is about 20% indigenous peoples.

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54 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Is the Canadian economy doing as well as the American economy? How does Trudeau compare as a candidate/nominee to say Biden, Warren, Sanders, etc. or to Obama?

No, not as well, but still doing fine. Trudeau is an Obama-type candidate - high charisma, thin resume when taking office, 'pragmatic progressive'. The Liberal party is generally centre or centre-right on economics, centre-left on social policies.

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12 hours ago, Patine said:

The last Conservative to hold the Yukon seat (well, technically, an "Independent-Conservative," by self-declared label and on the ballot, but I'm not sure how independent she was of the Conservative caucus), was Martha Black, elected way back in 1935.

What about Ryan Leef? He won the Yukon seat in 2011. There was also Erik Nielsen who represented Yukon as a Progressive Conservative from 1957 to 1987.

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17 minutes ago, Caper08 said:

What about Ryan Leef? He won the Yukon seat in 2011. There was also Erik Nielsen who represented Yukon as a Progressive Conservative from 1957 to 1987.

I kind of discounted Nielsen subconsciously because he was part, in the tail end of his political career, of the name and image change on the Yukon Progressive Conservative Party to the Yukon Party SPECIFICALLY to break with Mulroney in 1992, but you are right that while he was an MP he was definitely a staunch PC. I was also unfamiliar with Leef until now.

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7 hours ago, admin_270 said:

No. Longest serving Prime Minister was 21 1/2 years.

Wow! Looking at US presidents, only three of them would have been in position to feasibly rule for 21 1/2 years, if term limitations were never a precedence. Thomas Jefferson would have easily kept power from 1801-1826 had he wanted it. You then don't get anyone who is elected young enough or lived long enough and had the party to sustain him until Grover Cleveland, who could have ruled from 1884-1908, if his economic policies proved popular.  After Cleveland, you have to go all the way to Bill Clinton 1992-????. All other presidents die, degrade, resign, or they weren't a popular or charismatic enough president at any time to even picture ruling for multiple decades. 

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Problem of Andrew Scheer is simple.

Andrew is way too much conservative for the Canadian politic even if his platform was quite moderate.

It's like if Mike Pence ran in New York to give you an example.

Bernier has been easily depincted as a far-right politician while in fact he's much more libertarian.

But as he needed supports he endorsed right stances on immigration while staying super libertarian on economy and society.

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

Thomas Jefferson would have easily kept power from 1801-1826 had he wanted it.

Washington: Ok guys, I think 2 terms is enough for President

Adams: Fair enough, lemme try to win a sec..

Jefferson: Lemme stop you right there Johnny Ads, I have 6 terms to win😎

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@Patine interesting thing

Apart Gaspé and Chicoutimi, Bloc won typical former Pequist constituencies. 

Look at Bloc result in Quebec and PQ results in 2008/2012 during provincial elections

 

Federal 2019 result.

image.thumb.png.433443bf5f56fc4bd23d846c5784f414.png

 

Quebec provincial 2012

 

Carte

 

Bloc gain close of the same territories than the Pequist ones in last Marois' government.

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12 hours ago, Edouard said:

Problem of Andrew Scheer is simple.

Andrew is way too much conservative for the Canadian politic even if his platform was quite moderate.

It's like if Mike Pence ran in New York to give you an example.

Bernier has been easily depincted as a far-right politician while in fact he's much more libertarian.

But as he needed supports he endorsed right stances on immigration while staying super libertarian on economy and society.

In addition to being uncharismatic and running a boring campaign, ya, one of Scheer's problems in winning in places like Ontario and Quebec is that he is probably personally more conservative in ways than the centres there and has a history of publicly supporting positions more in line with his personal views, and therefore tends to come off as evasive when asked about various issues.

You're right that Bernier has strong libertarian aspects, and libertarian positions don't map neatly onto a left-right system. But as you pointed out, his signature issue wasn't very libertarian. Massive decrease in legal immigration (libertarians usually lean towards free flow of people across a border).

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On 10/22/2019 at 2:35 AM, Patine said:

@admin_270 @Hestia11 @vcczar @darkmoon72 and anyone else interested:

Final results:

Liberal 156 seats

Conservative 122 seats

Bloc Quebecois 32 seats

New Democratic 24 seats

Green Party 3 seats

People's Party 0 seats (of, shucks! :P )

Independent 1 seat (expelled former Liberal Cabinet Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould)

A Liberal Minority, though a coalition with the NDP (or even just a British-style budget-and-supply agreement) is an operable government, seatwise.

Glad I got it right.  As a left-of-center American, this is more or less the result I was hoping for.

I'm curious to see how long the government lasts, and how long the leaders of each party last.  I'm guessing Trudeau and Blanchet are pretty safe.  Not sure about everyone else.

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16 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

In addition to being uncharismatic and running a boring campaign, ya, one of Scheer's problems in winning in places like Ontario and Quebec is that he is probably personally more conservative in ways than the centres there and has a history of publicly supporting positions more in line with his personal views, and therefore tends to come off as evasive when asked about various issues.

You're right that Bernier has strong libertarian aspects, and libertarian positions don't map neatly onto a left-right system. But as you pointed out, his signature issue wasn't very libertarian. Massive decrease in legal immigration (libertarians usually lean towards free flow of people across a border).

Completely :) 

Quebecers were really attracted by the Conservative agenda which really was nationalist, but the Bloc started to take votes from the Conservatives after the 1st TVA debate in which Scheer was unclear about abortion

The day after a lot of Quebecers were telling the radios to say "I wanted to vote Conservative but I'm gonna vote for the Bloc". It's from this debate that the Bloc started to rise and barely took 80% of its gain on the Conservatives.

The Bloc could have take to 45 seats in Quebec if in the last days the NDP hadn't make reports to save Liberals accross the country.

About Bernier this is tragic decision and a shocking defeat in his constituency because Beauce was held by his father in 1993 as independent. Beauce was the thoughest conservative seat in eastern Canada or barely.

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9 minutes ago, Edouard said:

Completely :) 

Quebecers were really attracted by the Conservative agenda which really was nationalist,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Canadian Nationalism antagonistic ideologically to Quebec Nationalistic, like British Nationalism is to Scottish and Welsh Nationalism, and Spanish Nationalism is to Catalonian and Basque Nationalism, and Chinese Nationalism is to Tibetan Nationalism, more or less?

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17 minutes ago, Patine said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Canadian Nationalism antagonistic ideologically to Quebec Nationalistic, like British Nationalism is to Scottish and Welsh Nationalism, and Spanish Nationalism is to Catalonian and Basque Nationalism, and Chinese Nationalism is to Tibetan Nationalism, more or less?

Yep but you know that, and it is special Canadian situation but, the most "Canadian nationalists" are the Liberals of Justin Trudeau who approve a centralism in Ottawa :)

While Conservatives are for powers to provinces, and in this election Conservative pledges for Quebec were particulary attractive

-A single tax report (for the benefit of Quebec) we call this in french le rapport unique d'impôt.

-The 3rd link of Quebec approved

-Cultural and political additions for the Quebec autonomy

-Not opposing bill 21 on secularism.

Andrew Scheer pushed a real strong agenda to please Quebec nationalists

The only two things which prevented him for winning accross Quebec were :

-The pipeline project

-His conservatism

And we could also say that "Not being a Quebecer" Quebec only made an exception for Jack Layton in 2011 but consistantly if the Premier is elected in Quebec his chances are higher to get more seats.

The NDP almost disappeared of Quebec also because they fired Thomas Mulcair.

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38 minutes ago, Edouard said:

About Bernier this is tragic decision and a shocking defeat in his constituency because Beauce was held by his father in 1993 as independent. Beauce was the thoughest conservative seat in eastern Canada or barely.

At this point, it seems Bernier would have been better off to wait out 2019 as a Conservative, and then challenge Scheer again in 2020. 

But who knows - maybe he's with the People's Party for the long haul, and it will emerge over the next decade or so as a real force?

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19 minutes ago, Edouard said:

Yep but you know that, and it is special Canadian situation but, the most "Canadian nationalists" are the Liberals of Justin Trudeau who approve a centralism in Ottawa :)

While Conservatives are for powers to provinces, and in this election Conservative pledges for Quebec were particulary attractive

-A single tax report (for the benefit of Quebec) we call this in french le rapport unique d'impôt.

-The 3rd link of Quebec approved

-Cultural and political additions for the Quebec autonomy

-Not opposing bill 21 on secularism.

Andrew Scheer pushed a real strong agenda to please Quebec nationalists

The only two things which prevented him for winning accross Quebec were :

-The pipeline project

-His conservatism

And we could also say that "Not being a Quebecer" Quebec only made an exception for Jack Layton in 2011 but consistantly if the Premier is elected in Quebec his chances are higher to get more seats.

The NDP almost disappeared of Quebec also because they fired Thomas Mulcair.

You're all the more proving how ideologically incoherent, unrealistic, and just to reduced to broad-based pandering I had said to @Conservative Elector 2 that Scheer's platform actually was.

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@admin_270 I've been truly surprised, maybe he could but you're right he should have accepted and expected Scheer's problems, he would have won the PCC convention after that

About the PPC their problem is as follows, they can have big gains in western Canada next years, but news generations are not fond of old parties.

Bloc, PCC and PPC will all have these problems in next years to solve, in my step family both parents voted Bloc Québécois while their sons voted LPC and NDP.

 

For those who want more news, the son of Gilles Duceppe, Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe has been elected as MP of Lac Saint Jean last night

There has been a touching moment in Radio Canada

Gilles closely followed his son's candidacy as Lac Saint Jean was not as easy as you might think because both Liberals and Conservatives had good candidates well known in the constituency and that the Bloc started the campain near 19 to 20% and ended it by nearing 33% in Quebec.

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10 hours ago, Edouard said:

For those who want more news, the son of Gilles Duceppe, Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe has been elected as MP of Lac Saint Jean last night

I don't really like this sort of political royalty stuff. We have a PM who is son of a former PM. Bernier is son of a former MP. Brunelle-Duceppe is son of a former BQ leader.

One part of the problem is that people like having royalty. This is why the British royalty is so popular, especially in tabloids. Movie stars make up another kind of faux-royalty.

Perhaps this explains the ancient practice of appointing people to political positions by drawing lots.

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8 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

I don't really like this sort of political royalty stuff. We have a PM who is son of a former PM. Bernier is son of a former MP. Brunelle-Duceppe is son of a former BQ leader.

One part of the problem is that people like having royalty. This is why the British royalty is so popular, especially in tabloids. Movie stars make up another kind of faux-royalty.

Perhaps this explains the ancient practice of appointing people to political positions by drawing lots.

To be honest it's really anglo-saxon :) 

Look at Canada, there are the Johnson Family where the father and both children been Premier of Quebec for 3 different political parties (UN PQ PLQ)

The son of Duceppe could emerge as someone important inside the Bloc as Justin did with the Liberals, but at least the Canadian politic is way less "royalty" than the american one :

 

Mitt Romney son of George Romney

The Kennedy family

The Clintons

The Bush

It seems only now that US are changing from political families to news faces.

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1 hour ago, Edouard said:

To be honest it's really anglo-saxon :) 

Look at Canada, there are the Johnson Family where the father and both children been Premier of Quebec for 3 different political parties (UN PQ PLQ)

The son of Duceppe could emerge as someone important inside the Bloc as Justin did with the Liberals, but at least the Canadian politic is way less "royalty" than the american one :

 

Mitt Romney son of George Romney

The Kennedy family

The Clintons

The Bush

It seems only now that US are changing from political families to news faces.

And don't forget the Rockefellers and the Cabot-Lodges, even though they didn't produce any Presidents. Oh, and the Roosevelts. And the Gores. And the Stevensons. And the Breckinridges. And others, besides...

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