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When to take Impeachment Seriously

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8 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

I mean, that's what an allegation is. The police don't decide to not open a murder investigation because an accusation that someone did it is "hearsay".

Not following you here. Hearsay is second-hand or further information. You can have first-hand, second-hand, third-hand and so on allegations. For example, the whistleblower doesn't claim to have heard the conversation or seen a transcript, instead he claims to have heard from someone else that such-and-such happened. This is typically a weaker claim.

Pelosi claims the hearsay was sufficient to start a formal inquiry. Again, I don't think McConnell will say it's illegitimate and therefore the Senate shouldn't take up the charges because of this - I'm simply trying to imagine a scenario where he would.

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9 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

For example, the whistleblower doesn't claim to have heard the conversation or seen a transcript, instead he claims to have heard from someone else that such-and-such happened. This is typically a weaker claim.

This isn’t difficult.

”Who told you such-and-such?”

”So-and-so.”

”The prosecution calls so-and-so to the stand.  Do you promise to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god?”

”I do.”

”So-and-so, did you say such-and-such to Whistleblower?”

And now So and So can either tell the truth or commit perjury.

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18 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

This isn’t difficult.

”Who told you such-and-such?”

Ya, and already the House Dems have more than just hearsay - they have a transcript of the conversation in question. Presumably they will have more if or when articles of impeachment are voted on. Again, I don't think McConnell will block a Senate trial if the House impeaches.

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1 hour ago, Actinguy said:

Won’t get a conviction here, the jury is biased against the defendant.

But we make the most of it and try the case in the Court of Public Opinion instead.

Ask Newt Gingrich how well that works.

You come at the king, you best not miss.

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23 minutes ago, pilight said:

Ask Newt Gingrich how well that works.

You come at the king, you best not miss.

The United States is NOT a monarchy. Which is also why having special legal and judicial exemptions and separate procedures - ones which have nothing at all to do with the concepts of justice or due process, but instead favour calling, nepotism, political vendettas, and partisan closing of ranks - and elected officials being completely above the common law-enforcement, courts, penalties, and legal accountability, is utterly DISGUSTING for the leadership of a REPUBLIC, and the American people should demand 'justice for ALL."

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@admin_270 @vcczar @Actinguy @Patine

BREAKING: McConnell says that he'd "have no choice but to move to trial if the House impeaches Trump"

The fact he is getting this far ahead of it I think is the first sign of the dominos you talk about at the top of the thread vcc.

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

The United States is NOT a monarchy. Which is also why having special legal and judicial exemptions and separate procedures - ones which have nothing at all to do with the concepts of justice or due process, but instead favour calling, nepotism, political vendettas, and partisan closing of ranks - and elected officials being completely above the common law-enforcement, courts, penalties, and legal accountability, is utterly DISGUSTING for the leadership of a REPUBLIC, and the American people should demand 'justice for ALL."

Or, you know, it's a figure of speech.

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1 hour ago, pilight said:

Or, you know, it's a figure of speech.

My point still stands. The leadership of a Republic should not enjoy special legal and judicial exemptions and privileges typical of old European nobility. It's inappropriate to the stated form of government, and a spit in the face and taunting insult to all Americans who are not elected officials and to the concept of justice and due process in the United States as a whole.

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2 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

@admin_270 @vcczar @Actinguy @Patine

BREAKING: McConnell says that he'd "have no choice but to move to trial if the House impeaches Trump"

The fact he is getting this far ahead of it I think is the first sign of the dominos you talk about at the top of the thread vcc.

Sounds to me like McConnell is just stating what's obvious - it would be pretty tough politically to not take up articles of impeachment from the House.

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18 hours ago, admin_270 said:

Sounds to me like McConnell is just stating what's obvious - it would be pretty tough politically to not take up articles of impeachment from the House.

It would also be pretty tough to just ignore a President's nomination to the Supreme Court, but he did that just fine. I'd put nothing below Mitch McConnell.

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30 minutes ago, jnewt said:

It would also be pretty tough to just ignore a President's nomination to the Supreme Court, but he did that just fine. I'd put nothing below Mitch McConnell.

Mitch McConnell is a good example of one of the kind of politicians those cynical, black humour jokes around how crooked, untrustworthy, and deceptive politicians are that are out there originate.

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I read the transcript and I think this may actually be an impeachment worthy offense; after having thrown everything against the wall for years they may've actually found something.

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12 hours ago, jnewt said:

It would also be pretty tough to just ignore a President's nomination to the Supreme Court, but he did that just fine. I'd put nothing below Mitch McConnell.

100%.

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On 9/30/2019 at 10:10 PM, Reagan04 said:

@admin_270 @vcczar @Actinguy @Patine

BREAKING: McConnell says that he'd "have no choice but to move to trial if the House impeaches Trump"

The fact he is getting this far ahead of it I think is the first sign of the dominos you talk about at the top of the thread vcc.

Means hardly anything.  McConnell is a tactician and knows that there is no chance of conviction in the Senate.  It would come up and Trump would be acquitted (with maybe the majority of the chamber against removal).  It would also put red and swing state democrats in a difficult position.

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10 minutes ago, darkmoon72 said:

Polls seem to have moved on the subject.

Strange wording on the poll since the House doesn't vote to remove a President from office.

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3 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Strange wording on the poll since the House doesn't vote to remove a President from office.

I think the poll is just leaving out the Senate trial and vote for the time being, and only asking about 1) the House inquiry in progress and 2) a House impeachment vote.  I agree the wording is strange.

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An interesting question here. With this whole potential impeachment issue, which is a big demand on such a figure's time, and her absence would be very significant in how things unfold, will Pelosi be able to take any time off for funerary and other duties for her brother, who I noticed just passed away?

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14 hours ago, Patine said:

An interesting question here. With this whole potential impeachment issue, which is a big demand on such a figure's time, and her absence would be very significant in how things unfold, will Pelosi be able to take any time off for funerary and other duties for her brother, who I noticed just passed away?

I think she's probably working through the grieving period. That's what leaders do. It helps distract the mind from grief. 

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From FiveThirtyEight.com.  More evidence that polls seem to be moving on the subject.

image.png.86745aabe66a4428a49857c2f0779448.png

The recent Quinnipiac poll.  Trump's losing independents.

image.png.871d97ceda4bf7d6c3b77f2554d26deb.png

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