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vcczar

Democratic Tier and a question

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13 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Actually, every candidate mentioned Trump (including Yang)...except Klobuchar.

I don’t believe Klobuchar (or Yang) has what it takes — but if you’re looking for a candidate who doesn’t mention Trump, it’s Klobuchar.

She too ugly

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29 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

She too ugly

I heard she's stalking you. Look out the window. 

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8 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Jesus that made my heart jump

If you don't have any salads, or hair combs, I think you'll be okay. 

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On 9/17/2019 at 11:42 AM, vcczar said:

We have a clear tier system in the current election now with three taking most of the poll votes:

Tier 1 - Biden (highest polling and averaging a 5 pt lead over tier 2 or more)

Tier 2 - Warren and Sanders (higher than 10% and within 10 pts of front runner)

Tier 3 - Harris (7 to at least 10% but not competitive w/ frontrunner)

Tier 4 - Buttigieg (5-7%)

Tier 5 - O’Rourke, Yang, Booker (3-5%)

Tier 6 - Klobuchar, Castro, Steyer, Gabbard (1-2%)

Tier 7 - Everyone else but those below (0 and 1%)

Tier 8 - Messam and Sestak (those often not in polls) 

My question:

Who are your top 3 preferred candidates (in order) and will you likely support any of them over Trump on Election Day?

Buttigieg and Harris are in the same tier.

image.png.52ca1176135fea40de9b8685e125bba7.png

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 7:47 PM, Actinguy said:

Actually, every candidate mentioned Trump (including Yang)...except Klobuchar.

I don’t believe Klobuchar (or Yang) has what it takes — but if you’re looking for a candidate who doesn’t mention Trump, it’s Klobuchar.

I see by you quoting him (as he's on my ignore list) that @ThePotatoWalrus labours under the delusion that someone automatically "wins," flat-out and completely, a debate if they just happen to be, for any reason or in any context, the main subject of the debate. He once again shows absolutely NO actual knowledge or understanding of politics, and his brain-dead, unthinking cultist devotion to a very poor quality President - or leader of any sort in any context. He has to grow up and get a brain and an education on affairs, and grasp context and reality, or he should just go and discuss politics with a Special Ed class and feel falsely important rather than make an idiot of himself here.

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

I see by you quoting him (as he's on my ignore list) that @ThePotatoWalrus labours under the delusion that someone automatically "wins," flat-out and completely, a debate if they just happen to be, for any reason or in any context, the main subject of the debate. He once again shows absolutely NO actual knowledge or understanding of politics, and his brain-dead, unthinking cultist devotion to a very poor quality President - or leader of any sort in any context. He has to grow up and get a brain and an education on affairs, and grasp context and reality, or he should just go and discuss politics with a Special Ed class and feel falsely important rather than make an idiot of himself here.

You’re arguing with someone you ignore.

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29 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

You’re arguing with someone you ignore.

I find it annoying that, when I put someone on my ignore list on this forum (but no other forum I've been on, nor any online game or messenger), even though I specifically check a flag box to ignore such, whenever another user whose not on my ignore list quotes one of their posts, I still see it quoted. Every damned time! It boils my blood...

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23 minutes ago, Patine said:

I find it annoying that, when I put someone on my ignore list on this forum (but no other forum I've been on, nor any online game or messenger), even though I specifically check a flag box to ignore such, whenever another user whose not on my ignore list quotes one of their posts, I still see it quoted. Every damned time! It boils my blood...

I think everything boils your blood

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5 minutes ago, SilentLiberty said:

I think everything boils your blood

There are definitely things that don't. But those things VERY rarely come up on a forum dominated by political discussion (or, in a few cases, always come up in horribly distorted and warped forms).

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51 minutes ago, Patine said:

There are definitely things that don't. But those things VERY rarely come up on a forum dominated by political discussion (or, in a few cases, always come up in horribly distorted and warped forms).

Dogs or cats?

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1 minute ago, avatarmushi said:

the one who has a better chance against Biden

This is why Warren is growing on me fast tbh. Two months ago she wasn't in my top five. Warren is in second place at this point, as much as I hate to admit it. I'll be very sad to see Bernie lose yet again (he got me interested in politics in 2015), but I'll be happy if Biden is not the nominee. 

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2 hours ago, Natalie said:

This is why Warren is growing on me fast tbh. Two months ago she wasn't in my top five. Warren is in second place at this point, as much as I hate to admit it. I'll be very sad to see Bernie lose yet again (he got me interested in politics in 2015), but I'll be happy if Biden is not the nominee. 

Wait till Warren gets frontrunner status.  The other candidates have not yet attacked her, and the media (and Republicans) will have a field day bringing up her past.  I believe the "Pocahantas" thing is fatal and am skeptical that average America wants to follow a liberal Massachusetts elite university white professor lady.

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6 hours ago, Jayavarman said:

Wait till Warren gets frontrunner status.  The other candidates have not yet attacked her, and the media (and Republicans) will have a field day bringing up her past.  I believe the "Pocahantas" thing is fatal and am skeptical that average America wants to follow a liberal Massachusetts elite university white professor lady.

Especially because, it seems, a number of Americans, yourself included, can't spell "Pocahontas." But, a certain group of ethnicities in modern U.S. borders would say not being able to spell the names and words of ORIGINAL, TRUE CLAIMANTS to American lands is typical of the ignorant squatters - the first illegal immigrants... :P

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Bernie definitely seems to be slipping as of late, with Warren better poised to be the left-wing alternative to Biden.  Much like Nate Silver at 538, I'd put Bernie slightly below Warren in the rankings at this point.  There's a lot of negativity and staff shake-ups coming from his camp too, and I don't think that's doing him any favors.  Nor was it wise to hire a bunch of Jill Stein supporters as his top advisers when he's asking for the votes of Democrats.

What I do find funny is the die-hard Bernie supporters' complete denial of the situation.  Reminds me of the scene in Spinal Tap: "I just think that their appeal is becoming more selective."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ6JxAgmxXg

 

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My top 3, in the interest of full disclosure:

1. Warren

2. Buttigieg

3. Originally I'd have said Inslee, but since he dropped out, probably a tie between Biden and O'Rourke, because I'd like to put Texas in play sooner rather than later, and I think they're the two best-positioned candidates to do that.  If Texas starts going blue, Republicans will be shut out of the White House for the foreseeable future, unless they take the tour.

I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary, mainly to stop the Democratic Party from moving to the right yet again, and voted for Hillary in the general election once he lost.  But the more I look into Bernie, the less I like what I'm seeing.  That plus the scorched-earth negative tactics he's using have moved him completely off my list as far as my 2020 primary vote is concerned.

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On 9/20/2019 at 2:55 AM, Jayavarman said:

  I believe the "Pocahantas" thing is fatal 

Against a Jeb! Bush type, maybe.  

But against Donald Trump?

Anyone sincerely offended by the Pocahontas thing would be FAR more offended by Trump's every waking moment.

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:05 AM, Patine said:

Especially because, it seems, a number of Americans, yourself included, can't spell "Pocahontas." But, a certain group of ethnicities in modern U.S. borders would say not being able to spell the names and words of ORIGINAL, TRUE CLAIMANTS to American lands is typical of the ignorant squatters - the first illegal immigrants... :P

...don't you live in Canada?

Are you descended from native Canadians?

Or from ignorant squatters?

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7 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Against a Jeb! Bush type, maybe.  

But against Donald Trump?

Anyone sincerely offended by the Pocahontas thing would be FAR more offended by Trump's every waking moment.

I fully agree with this, and would only add my own corollary - anyone who makes a big deal about it likely wasn't going to vote for a Democrat anyway, and if Warren's claim to Native American ancestry wasn't the excuse, it would just be something else.

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1 hour ago, Actinguy said:

...don't you live in Canada?

Are you descended from native Canadians?

Or from ignorant squatters?

I admit it. I am descended from ignorant squatters (though my long-term girlfriend is Native - recognized Cree, in fact). But, a funny difference between Canada and Australia, as opposed to the U.S. (all three of which have a history of horribly abusing their indigenous peoples) - Canada and Australia (at least the governments) formally and publicly acknowledged that these horrid and inhuman abuses had occurred, were WRONG and UNJUSTIFIED, each had a Prime Minister (and a centre-right party one in each nation, at that) make a formal apology, and then programs of bridge-building, restitution, and moving to improve living standards and opportunities for indigenous peoples in their countries. On the other hand, although several State governments have made similar recognitions to a degree, the U.S. Federal Government refuses to formally acknowledge these abuses and things like the Indian Wars, the Trail of Tear, the illegal acquisition of Hawaii, the constant breaking of treaties to give more freehold land and allow gold rush claims, etc., as being at all WRONG or ABUSIVE or UNJUSTIFIED, and continues the historical narrative of glorifying these actions in their narrative. That's a BIG difference right there.

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

I admit it. I am descended from ignorant squatters (though my long-term girlfriend is Native - recognized Cree, in fact). But, a funny difference between Canada and Australia, as opposed to the U.S. (all three of which have a history of horribly abusing their indigenous peoples) - Canada and Australia (at least the governments) formally and publicly acknowledged that these horrid and inhuman abuses had occurred, were WRONG and UNJUSTIFIED, each had a Prime Minister (and a centre-right party one in each nation, at that) make a formal apology, and then programs of bridge-building, restitution, and moving to improve living standards and opportunities for indigenous peoples in their countries. On the other hand, although several State governments have made similar recognitions to a degree, the U.S. Federal Government refuses to formally acknowledge these abuses and things like the Indian Wars, the Trail of Tear, the illegal acquisition of Hawaii, the constant breaking of treaties to give more freehold land and allow gold rush claims, etc., as being at all WRONG or ABUSIVE or UNJUSTIFIED, and continues the historical narrative of glorifying these actions in their narrative. That's a BIG difference right there.

I used to work for the Department of Health and Human Services -- the Human Services side, specifically.  I worked closely with the Administration for Native Americans, along with the Indian Health Service -- both branches of the Department of Health and Human Services.

IHS, with a budget of $6 Billion per year, is responsible for providing direct medical and public health services to 2.2 million Native Americans. IHS is the principal federal health care provider and health advocate for Native Americans. It also legally mandates a preference for hiring Native Americans within the department.  

ANA's goal is to develop and support the self-sufficiency and cultural preservation by providing social and economic development opportunities through financial assistance, training, and technical assistance to tribes and Native American communities.  The current Commissioner is a member of the 
Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe of South Dakota, and the Deputy Commissioner is a member of the Seneca Nation.  It distributes more than $50 million in grants every year to Native American cultural preservation and economic development opportunities for their tribes and communities.

Past sins are unforgiveable and like any government agency, there's always more to be done than can actually be accomplished with the allotted money and time.  But to pretend that America refuses to recognize past atrocities and do what it can to right these wrongs is just incorrect.




 

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13 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I used to work for the Department of Health and Human Services -- the Human Services side, specifically.  I worked closely with the Administration for Native Americans, along with the Indian Health Service -- both branches of the Department of Health and Human Services.

IHS, with a budget of $6 Billion per year, is responsible for providing direct medical and public health services to 2.2 million Native Americans. IHS is the principal federal health care provider and health advocate for Native Americans. It also legally mandates a preference for hiring Native Americans within the department.  

ANA's goal is to develop and support the self-sufficiency and cultural preservation by providing social and economic development opportunities through financial assistance, training, and technical assistance to tribes and Native American communities.  The current Commissioner is a member of the 
Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe of South Dakota, and the Deputy Commissioner is a member of the Seneca Nation.  It distributes more than $50 million in grants every year to Native American cultural preservation and economic development opportunities for their tribes and communities.

Past sins are unforgiveable and like any government agency, there's always more to be done than can actually be accomplished with the allotted money and time.  But to pretend that America refuses to recognize past atrocities and do what it can to right these wrongs is just incorrect.




 

We had agencies like that too for decades before the public government apology and recognition actually happened. As a social worker in the major Canadian city with the second largest Indigenous Canadian population (next to Winnipeg), I worked with them a lot. However, a lot of American politicians (not government bureaucrats - but politicians, and not all politicians), when they do speak on the issue (which is notably rare- for some reason), are often very cavalier about the idea and even romanticize the era - unless they represent a State with a very large percentage of Native Americans (like Oklahoma, the Dakotas, Kansas, Washington State, Arizona, Alaska, or Hawaii). Very often, the tenor of many politicians publicly on these kinds of matters is starkly at odd with the government bureaucracy, even the politicians pass policy and funding for the bureaucracy.

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14 minutes ago, Patine said:

We had agencies like that too for decades before the public government apology and recognition actually happened. As a social worker in the major Canadian city with the second largest Indigenous Canadian population (next to Winnipeg), I worked with them a lot. However, a lot of American politicians (not government bureaucrats - but politicians, and not all politicians), when they do speak on the issue (which is notably rare- for some reason), are often very cavalier about the idea and even romanticize the era - unless they represent a State with a very large percentage of Native Americans (like Oklahoma, the Dakotas, Kansas, Washington State, Arizona, Alaska, or Hawaii). Very often, the tenor of many politicians publicly on these kinds of matters is starkly at odd with the government bureaucracy, even the politicians pass policy and funding for the bureaucracy.

Who?

I ask sincerely.

Who are the politicians romanticizing, specifically, the brutality against native americans?

I mean, don't get me wrong.  We have some idiots!  I specifically remember Todd Akin's insane attempts to mansplain what a woman's body does after a "legitimate rape" (which had 0 basis in fact, of course).  But I suspect that Canada probably has some idiots too.

Who specifically are you referring to?  What did they say?

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