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Trump tells AOC, Tlaib, Pressley, Omar to “go back” to the “broken and crime infested places from which they came”

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On 7/14/2019 at 1:48 PM, vcczar said:

I'm just wondering what @ThePotatoWalrus @HonestAbe @servo75 @jvikings1 @Conservative Elector 2 @Reagan04 and other conservatives on this forum think of this. 

This was very clearly a racist incident and premiers one of the reasons why no decent American could ever support him for re-election. And to the Democrats, stop letting looney toons and fundamentalists define your policies and you might actually win something for once as a party. I mean when was the last time the Democrats even got to home base? Election Night 08? To paraphrase Abe Lincoln "Wipe those creepy ass candidates off your stage and beat this dummy". I mean I have had it up to hear with the gabble speak coming from Omar and AOC and their cohort. 

All joking aside. This is the epitome of why I can not in good conscience support the President for re-election. He has a clear record of racism and sexism that is dividing the nation and some things go beyond policy? Yes, it is racist to tell brown members of the Congress to go back home and proceed to egg on a "send her back" chant. And it's absurd that in the ninth year of the second decade of the first century of the third millennia in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ praise His name that we must make this distinction and that there are people who do not see it. I really do become appalled and at a loss for words when I think of it, it's clear evidence he's not fit to lead my nation or my party and ought to be dismissed as quickly as possible. Now is the time for looking past policy and stomaching a caretaker Joe Biden administration so he can heal a divided nation and then get turned out to the curb by a real conservative after the GOP recovers from the massive hangover that will exist in 2024 and onward after this has passed through our system.

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11 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

This was very clearly a racist incident and premiers one of the reasons why no decent American could ever support him for re-election. And to the Democrats, stop letting looney toons and fundamentalists define your policies and you might actually win something for once as a party. I mean when was the last time the Democrats even got to home base? Election Night 08? To paraphrase Abe Lincoln "Wipe those creepy ass candidates off your stage and beat this dummy". I mean I have had it up to hear with the gabble speak coming from Omar and AOC and their cohort. 

All joking aside. This is the epitome of why I can not in good conscience support the President for re-election. He has a clear record of racism and sexism that is dividing the nation and some things go beyond policy? Yes, it is racist to tell brown members of the Congress to go back home and proceed to egg on a "send her back" chant. And it's absurd that in the ninth year of the second decade of the first century of the third millennia in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ praise His name that we must make this distinction and that there are people who do not see it. I really do become appalled and at a loss for words when I think of it, it's clear evidence he's not fit to lead my nation or my party and ought to be dismissed as quickly as possible. Now is the time for looking past policy and stomaching a caretaker Joe Biden administration so he can heal a divided nation and then get turned out to the curb by a real conservative after the GOP recovers from the massive hangover that will exist in 2024 and onward after this has passed through our system.

Joe Biden is just as much of, if not more of a womanizer than Donald Trump. Hell, at least Biden has been caught on camera as opposed to fake attention seekers wanting their 15 seconds of fame from false accusations like the President has had to deal with. 

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6 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

Yes, it is racist to tell brown members of the Congress to go back home and proceed to egg on a "send her back" chant.

I haven't followed this incident that closely, but watched footage of the rally in which this chant occurred. I didn't see Trump egging it on.

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33 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

I haven't followed this incident that closely, but watched footage of the rally in which this chant occurred. I didn't see Trump egging it on.

He sure didn't stop it. 

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11 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

He sure didn't stop it. 

Not stopping something is different from egging it on.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

Not stopping something is different from egging it on.

Both aren't right.

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1 hour ago, Hestia11 said:

Both aren't right.

 I'd rather not mischaracterize issues, especially emotionally heated ones. Let's at least be accurate.

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9 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

This was very clearly a racist incident and premiers one of the reasons why no decent American could ever support him for re-election. And to the Democrats, stop letting looney toons and fundamentalists define your policies and you might actually win something for once as a party. I mean when was the last time the Democrats even got to home base? Election Night 08? To paraphrase Abe Lincoln "Wipe those creepy ass candidates off your stage and beat this dummy". I mean I have had it up to hear with the gabble speak coming from Omar and AOC and their cohort. 

All joking aside. This is the epitome of why I can not in good conscience support the President for re-election. He has a clear record of racism and sexism that is dividing the nation and some things go beyond policy? Yes, it is racist to tell brown members of the Congress to go back home and proceed to egg on a "send her back" chant. And it's absurd that in the ninth year of the second decade of the first century of the third millennia in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ praise His name that we must make this distinction and that there are people who do not see it. I really do become appalled and at a loss for words when I think of it, it's clear evidence he's not fit to lead my nation or my party and ought to be dismissed as quickly as possible. Now is the time for looking past policy and stomaching a caretaker Joe Biden administration so he can heal a divided nation and then get turned out to the curb by a real conservative after the GOP recovers from the massive hangover that will exist in 2024 and onward after this has passed through our system.

You have some very good points @Reagan04, but I believe as long as U.S. Presidents staunchly and cling to more and more ideological purity, catering to narrower and narrower demographic crowds, and being more and more solidly beholden to one party over the other - often in an uncompromising fashion - which has been a growing trend (although different ideological camps in given parties struggling for power internally through nominations and Congress positions), and as long Cabinet and Federal Court are strictly viewed as partisan spoils and patronage positions, I don't see things getting better, or having the possibility to get better, but only getting worse. A unifying President, not a strictly partisan or ideologically puritanical one, is what's REALLY needed, but unfortunately, such candidates are easy targets for more extreme candidates on both sides because of the tumultuous socio-political environment and zeitgeist.

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6 hours ago, admin_270 said:

I haven't followed this incident that closely, but watched footage of the rally in which this chant occurred. I didn't see Trump egging it on.

When the President of the United States STOPS HIS STUMP SPEECH to allow a chant, that is egging it on and condoning it straight from the bully pulpit. The Presidency is a powerful thing sir, and even it's the lack of what it says speaks volumes of the man who holds it.

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4 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

STOPS HIS STUMP SPEECH to allow a chant, that is egging it on and condoning it

I watched it again.

It's straightforwardly true to claim he didn't tell them to stop when it started, but instead paused and then resumed his speech. But egged it on? That's stretching the truth. At best it's highly debatable.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

I watched it again.

It's straightforwardly true to claim he didn't tell them to stop when it started, but instead paused and then resumed his speech. But egged it on? That's stretching the truth. At best it's highly debatable.

Again, I will repeat. When you are the President, when you have already told them to go back where they came from. And you pause your speech, you look on approvingly, you smirk a few times. And the next day you lie about "oh I started to speak quickly to stop it, I felt a little badly". It's clear he had no problem with the chant and yes, when you're the most powerful man on the planet, when you control the bully pulpit, when you signal the virtues of the nation, when you are the national role model, the national leader, that is tantamount to encouragement.

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4 minutes ago, Reagan04 said:

you look on approvingly, you smirk a few times

I watched it for a third time, just in case I missed this. I didn't see him looking on approvingly, or smirk a few times.

As you have noted, Trump tweeted

"Why don’t they [(unnamed Congresswomen)] go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done."

No need to make flimsy arguments about the chant.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

I watched it for a third time, just in case I missed this. I didn't see him looking on approvingly, or smirk a few times.

As you have noted, Trump tweeted

"Why don’t they [(unnamed Congresswomen)] go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done."

No need to make flimsy arguments about the chant.

I think it all fits together when you view it all in the context of the related events.

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10 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

[(unnamed Congresswomen)]

Unnamed doesn't mean that it wasn't strongly implied. That argument about "it could have been referencing anyone!" that I've been seeing doesn't work because Trump made it clear who he was talking about. 

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27 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

I watched it for a third time, just in case I missed this. I didn't see him looking on approvingly, or smirk a few times.

As you have noted, Trump tweeted

"Why don’t they [(unnamed Congresswomen)] go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done."

No need to make flimsy arguments about the chant.

I can't help but notice - and it's disturbing - that you've seemed incapable or unwilling to criticize or call out Trump on ANYTHING, or accede to anyone else doing so.

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1 minute ago, Herbert Hoover said:

Unnamed doesn't mean that it wasn't strongly implied.

I actually don't know who he was referring to exactly with that tweet. I would put Omar at 100% being thought of in reference to the tweet. I doubt Pressley was being referenced, as it doesn't make any sense. Perhaps Tlaib, whose parents emigrated from Palestine and who has championed Palestinian causes. Ocasio-Cortez? Perhaps, but again, it doesn't make much sense - her ancestors are from Puerto Rico, which is part of the U.S.

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23 minutes ago, Patine said:

I can't help but notice - and it's disturbing - that you've seemed incapable or unwilling to criticize or call out Trump on ANYTHING

You seem to miss that I am quoting the tweet which directly states what others are implying about his response or non-response to the chant.

I care first and foremost about the truth. If someone is making weak arguments or stating half-truths about another politician and I'm aware of it, I will happily respond. As it is, I am an expert on Trump, not most other politicians.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

You seem to miss that I am quoting the tweet which directly states what others are implying about his response or non-response to the chant.

I care first and foremost about the truth. If someone is making weak arguments or stating half-truths about another politician and I'm aware of it, I will happily respond. As it is, I am an expert on Trump, not most other politicians.

It sometimes seems you act more like his defense counsel, if you will, than just an "expert on him." This is based on my observation of your relevant posts and responses since he became a politician in 2015, not just on this event alone.

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Just now, Patine said:

It sometimes seems you act more like his defense counsel

What % of claims by commenters about Trump are positive on this forum?

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

What % of claims by commenters about Trump are positive on this forum?

Other than those of @ThePotatoWalrus and @Servo75, not many, but there have been some. I myself have commended his lack of hawkishness - the least hawkish U.S. President since Hoover, in fact. But I, myself, never give any political leader or public figure a completely clean slate or a complete by, and I can often find some redeeming qualities about even the worst of them, so maybe I just approach things - differently - than many.

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9 minutes ago, Patine said:

I myself have commended his lack of hawkishness - the least hawkish U.S. President since Hoover

And there you would be correct. So far, Trump has been a relatively un-hawkish President. Of course, he might turn out to be a disaster, but until then, why would I argue with you about something that's straightforwardly true at this point?

One of Trump's strategies is to get his opponents emotional - usually angry, at which point they stop thinking straight and start saying things that aren't true (or in other contexts making strategic mistakes).

You're right about ThePotatoWalrus, but he's explicitly said he's a gadfly who tries to get a rise out of people on the left. His icon is a clown with the nose honking.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

One of Trump's strategies is to get his opponents emotional - usually angry, at which point they stop thinking straight and start saying things that aren't true (or in other contexts making strategic mistakes).

But this tactic becomes very dubious beyond a VERY short-term viewpoint when you and your supporters have to do exactly what you want to goad your opposition to do to get them to do such. It's a "race to the bottom" or a "death spiral" tactic, and NO ONE wins in the long-term - unless, I guess, the instigators of such a tactic happen to be nihilists or internal socio-political saboteurs.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

But this tactic becomes very dubious beyond a VERY short-term viewpoint when you and your supporters have to do exactly what you want to goad your opposition to do to get them to do such.

In this case, the strategy seems pretty straightforward to me. Get the House Dems to come together and be angry at Trump, which prevents Pelosi from marginalizing 'the Squad', and instead keeps the Dems anchored to the more left parts of the party. If that continues, it makes Trump's re-election (and possibly winning the House) easier.

David Axelrod basically gave a similar analysis as this, and Trump almost spelled it out in subsequent tweets.

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19 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

In this case, the strategy seems pretty straightforward to me. Get the House Dems to come together and be angry at Trump, which prevents Pelosi from marginalizing 'the Squad', and instead keeps the Dems anchored to the more left parts of the party. If that continues, it makes Trump's re-election (and possibly winning the House) easier.

David Axelrod basically gave a similar analysis as this, and Trump almost spelled it out in subsequent tweets.

Again, the problem of short-term thinking, visions, planning, and agendas overwhelming dominating social, political, cultural, military, and economic ideals, not just in the U.S., but across the Western World. This is one of the big reasons why China is ascendant - because they do effectively think, plan, and view things in the long-term. Short-term thinking and goals in dominance over, in spite of, and even to the utter detriment of the long-term picture is why my future prognositications of socio-political and other issues in the U.S. and other Western Countries, and a LOT of other countries by "collateral damage" is a lot grimmer and more cynical, and far less optimistic, than that of most posters on this forum.

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17 hours ago, Reagan04 said:

This was very clearly a racist incident and premiers one of the reasons why no decent American could ever support him for re-election. And to the Democrats, stop letting looney toons and fundamentalists define your policies and you might actually win something for once as a party. I mean when was the last time the Democrats even got to home base? Election Night 08? To paraphrase Abe Lincoln "Wipe those creepy ass candidates off your stage and beat this dummy". I mean I have had it up to hear with the gabble speak coming from Omar and AOC and their cohort. 

All joking aside. This is the epitome of why I can not in good conscience support the President for re-election. He has a clear record of racism and sexism that is dividing the nation and some things go beyond policy? Yes, it is racist to tell brown members of the Congress to go back home and proceed to egg on a "send her back" chant. And it's absurd that in the ninth year of the second decade of the first century of the third millennia in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ praise His name that we must make this distinction and that there are people who do not see it. I really do become appalled and at a loss for words when I think of it, it's clear evidence he's not fit to lead my nation or my party and ought to be dismissed as quickly as possible. Now is the time for looking past policy and stomaching a caretaker Joe Biden administration so he can heal a divided nation and then get turned out to the curb by a real conservative after the GOP recovers from the massive hangover that will exist in 2024 and onward after this has passed through our system.

Since you asked my opinion, I'm going to give as honest and even-handed opinion of this. I have a right wing bias though I am politically independent. Any honest critique of this message ("I understand your point but don't you think that...?" will be met with good-natured debate. Any acerbic response along the lines of accusing me of being a Fox News shill for the evil orange man will be ignored at best and will receive my full unbridled wrath at worst. I am not pro-Trump, nor am I anti-Trump. I praise him when he does good things and am very critical when he does bad things. I have some very right wing views and some very left wing views. On the balance, I'd honestly give him a B so far. I will not expound further on that here since that's not the topic at hand, other than to say I think 95% of Americans would grade him either A+ or F-. That's not healthy for any republican society (note the lower-case r). I like to do this crazy thing that's missing from many Americans these days. It's called "thinking." Taking a step back, calling balls and strikes as though the POTUS were any other American citizen.

It's really a shame I had to write the previous two paragraphs, but given recent events in these forums, I felt it was necessary. Now, with that out of the way...

I feel the same way about that exchange that I feel about many things the President says, where I may agree with him on the point but feel he shouldn't have said those words. My interpretation of his comments is what has been a perfectly acceptable mantra over the years, "America, love it or leave it." My main critique of the President in this arena is that he distracts from all of his accomplishments when he continually chases the shiny objects. In my opinion, the SQUAD makes these comments at least partially with the intent of getting under Trump's skin. And with his ego, that's not hard to do. I think as President he should be above that and work on reaching across the aisle to the moderates more. He could easily expand his base and get a Reagan-esque landslide in 2020. I really wish he would be more "presidential" and focus on what is in my opinion a very positive agenda and accomplishments. Then again, his closest aides have tried to curb the tweeting, to no avail. So it is what it is. That being said, I am of the opinion that in no way were his statements racist. With respect for @Reagan04, especially since there are pitifully few of us here, "very clearly a racist incident and premiers one of the reasons why no decent American could ever support him for re-election." That's a no-true-Scotsman fallacy and frankly speaks more of your opinion, which you are of course entitled to. But while I'm sure you are yourself a decent American, so am I and I support his re-election. With respect @Reagan04, you do not speak for "decent Americans" and should not be making blanket statements like that! I can only give my own take on the issue. What is racism? According to Wikipedia, " Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another." Did Trump's statements indicate in any way that AOC and the others are of inferior race? Not even close! Since when did ANY criticism of ANYONE who happens to be in a minority class for ANY reason become racist? Because do not mistake, that's what we have here. I still remember when even the mildest criticism of any of Obama's policies "must" be racist. Or only "racists" voted for Donald Trump. The Democrats and left have cried wolf so many times, have overused the word "Racist" so many times to simply describe anyone and anything that they disagree with, that the bubble gum is out of flavor. Like the "South Park" episode that said "shit" 200 times, they have permanently neutered the word so that it has no more meaning.

The SQUAD has continually made statements that I believe are detrimental to our country. They have compared ICE detention facilities to concentration camps, something that as a Jew who has lost ancestors in those camps I find personally insulting. They have advocated for the complete removal of our border, de facto if not de jure. They have called for the complete takeover of our economy and transformation to a socialist system (single payer healthcare, "free" everything for anyone who gets across our border legally or not, and of course the Green New Deal), things that can be easily demonstrated are not only not affordable, but undermine the very fabric of our capitalist system, and our republic. And ANYONE who criticizes ANY of that is racist! That is their intent. This is another reason why the criticism of Trump's comments must be taken with a few pounds of salt. EVERYTHING is racist to the left. They constantly attack police officers, call for the abolitionof ICE, put up sanctuary cities to protect criminal illegal aliens from deportation THEN HAVE THE FUCKING NERVE TO ACCUSE OUR PRESIDENT OF NOT RESPECTING THE LAW!!!!!!  Give me a fucking break! In other words, the United States is a horrible, racist, misogynist, rape culture country that systematically kills black boys, runs terror camps at our borders and rips children apart from our mothers. Barack Obama, who I'm sure they would consider far right wing at this point, said just before his 2008 election that we were "five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America." Let that sink in. FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMING. I dare say that if you love a person or place, you do NOT want to transform it. From all that these four, and the modern Democrat Party at large, has stated, they do not like our country. They refer to an Islamic terror attack that destroyed 2 buildings and killed 2,000 innocent Americans as "some people doing something." Omar herself also attacked the very soliders who rescued her from war-torn Somalia to give her a new life in the greatest country ever on Earth. You'd think they'd show a little appreciation. But they, and the Democrat Party in general have demonstrated time and again that they care more about foreign citizens (as long as they're from the right countries) than they do about Americans. They advocate for free everything at OUR taxpayer expense for people whose very existence on our soil is a criminal act, while at the same time dragging their feet at best when it comes to giving benefits to veterans and first responders. They promise free everything to citizens (and now non-citizens too) in plans that are provably impossible without huge increases in middle class taxes. They have passed laws saying that if I'm a boy and say I'm a girl I should be allowed to participate on the girls' track team and gobble up all the records and if anyone says anything about it they're a hateful misogynist. They bend over backwards to give free health care to illegal aliens sneaking across our border while citizens and veterans die in the streets. They have been running some of the very towns now rife with homelessness, human feces, and drug needles, which have been Democrat controlled for 100 years. They want to tear down everything that's great about this country - our Constitution, our republican form of government, our capitalist system, our electoral college, to re-make America in a way that would be unrecognizable to the Founders. I'm going to say it, this is no longer Republican vs. Democrat. This is, LITERALLY, good vs. evil. The GOP is far from perfect, but I at least give them credit for not wanting to fundamentally transform our country (Barack Obama's own words) into a Socialist "paradise", trampling over the Constitution and individual rights, and saying it's okay to take from one group and give to another out of some arbitrary feeling that they "deserve" it more, not manufacturing a two-year-plus investigation into fabricated charges and utilizing the weapons of our Intelligence Community against political opponents. Yeah, those are facts, deal with it.

What the President is saying, in his not-so-eloquent way, is that if you don't like our country, why are you here? Why do you trash our country, trash our law enforcement, call everyone who disagrees with you racist, put together a "hit list" of Democrats who don't play along, and yet want to import half the third world here, from countries with vastly different cultures who have no desire to contribute to or assimilate with our society. It's a perfectly reasonable question and is in no way shape or form having ANYTHING to do with skin color or race. No one is TELLING them to leave, or trying to deport them. They are American citizens, and speaking for myself think they should show a little goddamn appreciation once and a while instead of trying to tear us apart.

America is not a perfect country, but it's our home, it's basically the last free country on earth, where you can say what you want without fear of arrest, have your God-given right to worship how you want, and exercise your right to own firearms. Even western Europe is slowly eroding these freedoms, jailing people for making jokes on the Internet, doing mass takeaways of firearms. We are the last best hope. And when a patriot like Mr. Trump sees these women trashing the same country that gives them the freedom to criticize our President, I not only defend his statements, but I would say that to them myself if I ever met them.

That's my opinion. Before I close out, I want to make a general statement. Like I said, I welcome RESPECTABLE debate on anything I've said above. If you think I'm wrong, tell me why you think so. You may even change my mind on a few things. The quote in my avatar was chosen for a very specific purpose. Though I'd obviously prefer it, I'm not here to make friends.  Conservatives are badly outnumbered on these forums so if I'm controversial and aggressive in my opinions it's because I feel I'm doing the work of about 20 people at once just to keep things in ideological balance. I make no apologies whatsoever for it. I'm always willing to engage in good-natured debate, and even possibly have my mind changed on things. Civility will ALWAYS be met with civility (if you agree with this you can stop reading now)...

... but if you respond in a manner meant more to attack me personally than debate my actual points (you know who you are), or attack my sources as "far right wing" as if that in and of itself is an argument, I will respond in kind. The purpose of Breitbart's quote (and shame to those who don't even read the quote but just reflexively dismiss it because of its author) is my very raison d'etre on this board. I will say what needs to be said. Although I'm not right about everything, I would not be doing my duty if I didn't at least challenge far-left opinions rather than let them sit there and be taken for gospel. That's how we've gotten so divided in this country, because conservatives for too long have sat there and let themselves be the butt of jokes, bringing knives to gun fights and assuming that the opponent plays fair. The media has made fun of conservatives for decades. They're just rich racist bigots who hate women and the poor. We've all heard it. But enough is enough. Our POTUS won't take it and neither will I. The media was just as unkind to the Bushes and Reagan, but the difference with Trump is that they're not used to having someone who won't take their BS, they're so used to just ripping on conservatives and having them take the high road. Now we have a POTUS who punches back. So I don't care who it pisses off, if it needs to be said I WILL say it, and never hold back, never apologize. If you don't like it, block me. You'll be doing me a favor.

Have a nice day everyone :)

 

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