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Herbert Hoover

Pride and Buttigieg

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I am currently at the Naehville Pride event, and I'm surprised by the support for Buttigieg among the parade floats here. I've seen at least 10 cutouts of Buttigieg or his face so far and also several shirts and posters. 

I had no clue the LGBT community was that invested in Buttigieg. Especially not in Tennessee!

@Actinguy @vcczar

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I mean, this is the first time the nation has had a major party candidate- that has a viable chance of winning the nomination- is openly gay; and that can be uplifting to many within the LGBT community. (It also helps that Mayor Pete defies many of the stereotypes of being a gay man!).
 

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13 minutes ago, Sunnymentoaddict said:

I mean, this is the first time the nation has had a major party candidate- that has a viable chance of winning the nomination- is openly gay; and that can be uplifting to many within the LGBT community. (It also helps that Mayor Pete defies many of the stereotypes of being a gay man!).
 

It makes me a lot more open to supporting Buttigieg over even Beto. I think he may struggle with voters of color, but theres also a good chance that he can relate his experience as a gay man to those voters even if they are not the same struggles.

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7 minutes ago, Herbert Hoover said:

It makes me a lot more open to supporting Buttigieg over even Beto. I think he may struggle with voters of color, but theres also a good chance that he can relate his experience as a gay man to those voters even if they are not the same struggles.

Mind you there is no 'one gay experience';. My experience as a  white bisexual male  being raised in a conservative suburb of Dallas will be far different than someone that is black in the rural south- or in a much more liberal city such as Boston. This isn't to discount what you said, just a huge caveat. 

Now, I've placed Pete in my top 3/4 candidates, and I love how he uses his sexuality to describe freedom; and how the government can be a vehicle for it, and not against it. In the sense that the Supreme Court gave him the freedom to marry the love of his life- even if the love is male.

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2 hours ago, Herbert Hoover said:

I am currently at the Naehville Pride event, and I'm surprised by the support for Buttigieg among the parade floats here. I've seen at least 10 cutouts of Buttigieg or his face so far and also several shirts and posters. 

I had no clue the LGBT community was that invested in Buttigieg. Especially not in Tennessee!

@Actinguy @vcczar

Awesome.  I love Buttigieg, I think he is precisely the candidate who can win in the general election - pulling in Republican voters (or even independent ones) who are DONE with Trump but also terrified of say Sanders or Warren.  Yes, he's gay.  He's also a combat Veteran who speaks openly about the personal importance of his faith without crossing the line into bigotry.  I think he has a ton of appeal that crosses lines into states that no other Democrat has a chance in. 

Buttigieg is the first candidate I've ever supported financially.

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22 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

terrified of say Sanders or Warren.

Are that many Americans STILL undereducated, gullible, and easily taken and deceived on political matters that they still believe Social Democratic politics is the same as Hard Socialism and Communism and still tremble in fear about the lies and misinformation said in the era of Unconstitutional, arbitrary, and illegal witch hunts that spat in the face of all due process that was the Red Scare? When will ACCURATE and RELIABLE knowledge, education, and information on the political spectrum and what it all means become a meaningful priority in the United States? Oh, but I forget, it's two biggest parties flourish on the ignorance and lack of real understanding of the voters and their firm and staunch belief in myths and old saws, because it keeps their own (the parties') power absolute and solid, and knowledge and education are POWER - power they don't really want the common voters having in a way that's inconvenient to them....

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15 minutes ago, Patine said:

Are that many Americans STILL undereducated, gullible, and easily taken and deceived on political matters 

I mean, it's been a whopping two years since Trump was elected.  I assure you that our country has not experienced a political renaissance in that time.

At least, not a good one.

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15 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I mean, it's been a whopping two years since Trump was elected.  I assure you that things have not become better in that period of time.

But, Americans have the power to educate themselves outside of "politically-approved and sanctioned avenues" - in fact, in downright erudite and comprehensive ways - in this modern era as much as any other nationality without draconian historical revisionist and censorship legislation has the opportunity to. The current American Administration does have affect that ability to seize and utilize the power of knowledge and education and to break conformist, false socio-political belief systems (at least, to date, the current American Administration lacks that power. But given the utter subservience at the time of a good majority of the U.S. population to the gross violations of U.S. Constitutional law and due process of the Jim Crow Laws, the Red Scare, and the Patriot Act, I worry about Americans willingly giving up their Republic to a heavy-handed popular tyrant who pushes the right buttons - an Augustus or a Napoleon, or the fictitious, but cautionary, Palpatine).

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

But, Americans have the power to educate themselves outside of "politically-approved and sanctioned avenues" - in fact, in downright erudite and comprehensive ways - in this modern era as much as any other nationality without draconian historical revisionist and censorship legislation has the opportunity to. The current American Administration does have affect that ability to seize and utilize the power of knowledge and education and to break conformist, false socio-political belief systems (at least, to date, the current American Administration lacks that power. But given the utter subservience at the time of a good majority of the U.S. population to the gross violations of U.S. Constitutional law and due process of the Jim Crow Laws, the Red Scare, and the Patriot Act, I worry about Americans willingly giving up their Republic to a heavy-handed popular tyrant who pushes the right buttons - an Augustus or a Napoleon, or the fictitious, but cautionary, Palpatine).

You can "But!" all day.

But!...I'm living in the reality where there ARE voters...especially (but not exclusively) Republican voters...who are terrified of Sanders or Warren.  Should they be?  We can argue that all day, doesn't actually matter.  They ARE.  

Buttigieg is the answer to that -- he ends the Trump Presidency in its tracks, and then makes at least some of the things Sanders or Warren proposes possible.

But those who insist on Sanders or Warren exclusively, run the risk of ending up with nothing if Trump gets re-elected instead.

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1 minute ago, Actinguy said:

You can "But!" all day.

But!...I'm living in the reality where there ARE voters...especially (but not exclusively) Republican voters...who are terrified of Sanders or Warren.  Should they be?  We can argue that all day, doesn't actually matter.  They ARE.  

Buttigieg is the answer to that -- he ends the Trump Presidency in its tracks, and then makes at least some of the things Sanders or Warren proposes possible.

But those who insist on Sanders or Warren exclusively, run the risk of ending up with nothing if Trump gets re-elected instead.

But pandering to fear was how the Red Scare and Patriot Act went almost unopposed for so long, despite both being utterly illegal and criminal on a Constitutional and judicial level. Because pandering to fear to win an election against someone who won by pandering to fear is a dubious strategy. When does the fear end and the courage being?

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

But pandering to fear was how the Red Scare and Patriot Act went almost unopposed for so long, despite both being utterly illegal and criminal on a Constitutional and judicial level. Because pandering to fear to win an election against someone who won by pandering to fear is a dubious strategy. When does the fear end and the courage being?

I'm not trying to scare anyone.

We're already scared.

I'm just trying to find our way OUT of here.

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Just now, Actinguy said:

I'm not trying to scare anyone.

We're already scared.

I'm just trying to find our way OUT of here.

Out of where and too where? From more of the same to more of the same? Where do you see anything going? What's getting better and not such stirring the same old shit around a bit?

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16 minutes ago, Patine said:

Out of where and too where? From more of the same to more of the same? Where do you see anything going? What's getting better and not such stirring the same old shit around a bit?

Again, we can do this all day...but I’ve already decided, and you literally don’t get a vote...so what are we doing?

Trump actually IS worse than any other available option.  I don’t have to convince you of this.  It’s simply true.

 

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20 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Again, we can do this all day...but I’ve already decided, and you literally don’t get a vote...so what are we doing?

Trump actually IS worse than any other available option.  I don’t have to convince you of this.  It’s simply true.

 

Just because I don't get a vote doesn't mean another screwed-up, botched election in the U.S. doesn't effect me. In fact, living in Canada, it has a closer impact to me than the majority of countries. Thus, I actually have a VESTED INTEREST in wanting my American neighbours to get their shit together, see through the toxic lies and bullshit they've been fed for decades, realize they're run by a government of crooks and criminals who have become complacent, arrogant, and smug about the security of their cushy position of power off of a corrupt electoral systems and institutional system of falsehoods, and actually go out and weed and purge their vile political morass in a legislative revolt. The WHOLE WORLD would benefit, especially the American people!

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19 minutes ago, Patine said:

Just because I don't get a vote doesn't mean another screwed-up, botched election in the U.S. doesn't effect me. In fact, living in Canada, it has a closer impact to me than the majority of countries. Thus, I actually have a VESTED INTEREST in wanting my American neighbours to get their shit together, see through the toxic lies and bullshit they've been fed for decades, realize they're run by a government of crooks and criminals who have become complacent, arrogant, and smug about the security of their cushy position of power off of a corrupt electoral systems and institutional system of falsehoods, and actually go out and weed and purge their vile political morass in a legislative revolt. The WHOLE WORLD would benefit, especially the American people!

The whole world benefits when Trump is gone.  That’s what I’m working on.

The kitchen is on fire, and you’re complaining about the color of the drapes.  You want different drapes?  Fine.  Great.  But FIRST, we have to put out the fire.  Or else the drapes aren’t going to matter.

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4 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

The whole world benefits when Trump is gone.  That’s what I’m working on.

The kitchen is on fire, and you’re complaining about the color of the drapes.  You want different drapes?  Fine.  Great.  But FIRST, we have to put out the fire.  Or else the drapes aren’t going to matter.

Drapes, no. That's not at all the analog of what I'm complaining about. More like the faulty gas lines to the stoves that caused the fire, have caused fires in the past, and will cause more in the future, until they're inspected and fixed. That's a MUCH more accurate analog to yours of what I'm complaining about.

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Drapes, no. That's not at all the analog of what I'm complaining about. More like the faulty gas lines to the stoves that caused the fire, have caused fires in the past, and will cause more in the future, until they're inspected and fixed. That's a MUCH more accurate analog to yours of what I'm complaining about.

Ok.  But we still have to put the fire out BEFORE we fix the pipe.

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Now I know for a fact that i'm not 100% straight but I would still never cast a ballot for a gay man (or woman). Pete's a great dude, don't get me wrong, and I believe that he will most probably win the Democratic nomination (and probably the Presidency). Literally the only exception I would make is if the gay President is the incumbent.

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2 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Now I know for a fact that i'm not 100% straight but I would still never cast a ballot for a gay man (or woman). Pete's a great dude, don't get me wrong, and I believe that he will most probably win the Democratic nomination (and probably the Presidency). Literally the only exception I would make is if the gay President is the incumbent.

I'm just curious, is there a reason for that fact? Also, considering the many, many leaders and statemen in history who have likely not been entirely straight (or at all straight) by nature, but because of their times were firmly in the closet, that you may have actually praised as past leaders (very real possibility we  may never know the full answer to or the full list of).

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33 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm just curious, is there a reason for that fact? Also, considering the many, many leaders and statemen in history who have likely not been entirely straight (or at all straight) by nature, but because of their times were firmly in the closet, that you may have actually praised as past leaders (very real possibility we  may never know the full answer to or the full list of).

No response, @ThePotatoWalrus? You disappoint me...

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