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Tolerant Liberals

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50 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Liberals are the epitome of #tolerance who support #freethought about everything, just EVERYTHING.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-this-jewish-conservative-student-was-forced-to-go-into-hiding/

"Liberals," as an absolute, universal, singular, undissenting, unified, hive-mind-like bloc globally, or just one particular group in one particular anecdote?

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5 minutes ago, Patine said:

"Liberals," as an absolute, universal, singular, undissenting, unified, hive-mind-like bloc globally, or just one particular group in one particular anecdote?

The latter, a group which is increasingly more common.

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54 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Liberals are the epitome of #tolerance who support #freethought about everything, just EVERYTHING.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-this-jewish-conservative-student-was-forced-to-go-into-hiding/

Harassing people for who they voted for is both stupid and misguided, if your going to harass someone, harass someone who's actually powerful not some student. Also why'd they mention it was a Jewish student in the title? It never came up again in the article, if some Catholic guy was in the same situation, they wouldn't bring up his religion in the title.

 

Semi off topic but it seems the rag you linked to is one of the newspapers getting in early on beating the war drum. 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-war-with-iran-and-why-now/

I wonder why the Iranians would do something like this, especially when the US have made it very clear they're itching for an excuse to invade you? It's not like the government has a history of lying about hostile encounters at sea so they could go to war...

If we do go to war, hopefully it will be a quick easy victory, like Vietnam, or Afghanistan.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

The latter, a group which is increasingly more common.

Such groups among conservative-leaning ideologies are also becoming more common, more toxic, and more dangerous. This is obviously not a problem of ideology, in truth, but a tendency to go too far with one's ideology, whatever that may be, wouldn't you agree?

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2 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

Harassing people for who they voted for is both stupid and misguided, if your going to harass someone, harass someone who's actually powerful not some student. Also why'd they mention it was a Jewish student in the title? It never came up again in the article, if some Catholic guy was in the same situation, they wouldn't bring up his religion in the title.

  

Semi off topic but it seems the rag you linked to is one of the newspapers getting in early on beating the war drum. 

 https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-war-with-iran-and-why-now/

I wonder why the Iranians would do something like this, especially when the US have made it very clear they're itching for an excuse to invade you? It's not like the government has a history of lying about hostile encounters at sea so they could go to war...

 If we do go to war, hopefully it will be a quick easy victory, like Vietnam, or Afghanistan.

Maybe Iran will allow for freedom of association.

2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Such groups among conservative-leaning ideologies are also becoming more common, more toxic, and more dangerous. This is obviously not a problem of ideology, in truth, but a tendency to go too far with one's ideology, whatever that may be, wouldn't you agree?

Yes. Though again for the religious a religious justification needs to be worked out for those where it is an issue.

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Just now, NYrepublican said:

Maybe Iran will allow for freedom of association.

Yes. Though again for the religious a religious justification needs to be worked out for those where it is an issue.

Toxic right-wing groups known for intolerance have a far longer history and a lot more baggage, incidents, and excuses to target other people for their religious beliefs that than toxic left-wing groups known for intolerance do, to be honest.

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10 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

Harassing people for who they voted for is both stupid and misguided, if your going to harass someone, harass someone who's actually powerful not some student. Also why'd they mention it was a Jewish student in the title? It never came up again in the article, if some Catholic guy was in the same situation, they wouldn't bring up his religion in the title.

 

Semi off topic but it seems the rag you linked to is one of the newspapers getting in early on beating the war drum. 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-war-with-iran-and-why-now/

I wonder why the Iranians would do something like this, especially when the US have made it very clear they're itching for an excuse to invade you? It's not like the government has a history of lying about hostile encounters at sea so they could go to war...

If we do go to war, hopefully it will be a quick easy victory, like Vietnam, or Afghanistan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markcancian/2019/06/15/is-the-u-s-going-to-war-with-iran-stay-tuned/#27f37e3e26be

There's been 2 attacks so far. 

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Toxic right-wing groups known for intolerance have a far longer history and a lot more baggage, incidents, and excuses to target other people for their religious beliefs that than toxic left-wing groups known for intolerance do, to be honest.

Like this and this and this.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

Like this and this and this.

Three examples? I could pull up hundreds of such groups in historical and modern conservative circles, but I don't have that kind of time. But here are some well-known examples off the top of my head: the Spanish Inquisition, the Catholic Inquisition against the Cathars, John Calvin's Theocracy in Geneva, the Protectorate of England under Oliver Cromwell, the Killing Time in late 1600's Scotland, the Crusades (all of them), the German Christian Party of Pre-WW1 Habsburg Austria (a BIG influence on Hitler), the Kuturkampf, the Ku Klux Klan, and the Soldiers for Christ "partnership" movement of militant, vitriolic Evangelicals in the U.S. Military. How many more examples do you need? Really?

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16 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Like this and this and this.

Also, it looks like the IRS example was for political beliefs, not necessarily religious ones. You can't conflate the two with any genuine sincerity like that. Thus, I, myself, would discount that one unless harder evidence showed religion was a bigger factor in being targeted than political affiliation alone.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

The best evidence they have is grainy footage of an alleged Iranian ship, removing an undetonated mine, and that's supposed to convince me that we should go to war, when the US has a proven track record of lying about this sort of thing? I ain't buying it.

16 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

this.

Noted left-wing organization the IRS :P.

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14 minutes ago, Patine said:

Three examples? I could pull up hundreds of such groups in historical and modern conservative circles, but I don't have that kind of time. But here are some well-known examples off the top of my head: the Spanish Inquisition, the Catholic Inquisition against the Cathars, John Calvin's Theocracy in Geneva, the Protectorate of England under Oliver Cromwell, the Killing Time in late 1600's Scotland, the Crusades (all of them), the German Christian Party of Pre-WW1 Habsburg Austria (a BIG influence on Hitler), the Kuturkampf, the Ku Klux Klan, and the Soldiers for Christ "partnership" movement of militant, vitriolic Evangelicals in the U.S. Military. How many more examples do you need? Really?

The death tools of those you named (low estimates for both lists)

Inquisition:5,000

Cathar crusade:200,000

Calvin:58

Cromwell:215,000

Killing time:100

Crusades:1,000,000    

German Christian Party:N/A

Kuturkampf:N/A

KKK:3,500

Evangelics:N/A

Total:1,423,658

Of just the 3 I named

IRS:N/A

Stalin:3,000,000

Reign of Terror:16,594

Total:3,016,594

I am curious whether left or right-wing groups would have a higher death toll if we kept up at this.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

The death tools of those you named (low estimates for both lists)

Inquisition:5,000

Cathar crusade:200,000

Calvin:58

Cromwell:215,000

Killing time:100

Crusades:1,000,000    

German Christian Party:N/A

Kuturkampf:N/A

KKK:3,500

Evangelics:N/A

Total:1,423,658

Of just the 3 I named

IRS:N/A

Stalin:3,000,000

Reign of Terror:16,594

Total:3,016,594

I am curious whether left or right-wing groups would have a higher death toll if we kept up at this.

I stopped caring about comparing death tolls of atrocities with each other to validate points of view or a "victim Olympics" when I came across an interesting quote, tangentially related, but very appropriate to the topic.

"The commonly held philosophy when making a sequel to a horror novel or movie, or competing with another's, is that the body count must always be higher. Certainly, this is a mantra of the slasher sub-genre. But, in my experience, the best endeavours into horror do not have this focus. A lower body count - even a single victim - can be ideal, if the creeping, insidious evil, the lurking dread, dire shadows in the corner and in the human heart, and, most of all, the central aspect of the whole horror genre - the utter violation of the readers' or audience's sense of justice - can be played upon in the darkest, most macabre, most sinister, most horrifying manner."

-Clive Barker

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5 hours ago, WVProgressive said:

Also why'd they mention it was a Jewish student in the title? It never came up again in the article, if some Catholic guy was in the same situation, they wouldn't bring up his religion in the title.

Very strange. Almost like they're trying to make themselves look oppressed in the media...

Oh well. Better give the false state more foreign aid.

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4 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

The death tools of those you named (low estimates for both lists)

Inquisition:5,000

Cathar crusade:200,000

Calvin:58

Cromwell:215,000

Killing time:100

Crusades:1,000,000    

German Christian Party:N/A

Kuturkampf:N/A

KKK:3,500

Evangelics:N/A

Total:1,423,658

Of just the 3 I named

IRS:N/A

Stalin:3,000,000

Reign of Terror:16,594

Total:3,016,594

I am curious whether left or right-wing groups would have a higher death toll if we kept up at this.

My favorite game is to go on this Wikipedia page and pressing ctrl+f and typing "Islamic extremism" and then typing "Christian extremism". Religion of peace, everybody. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll

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5 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Liberals are the epitome of #tolerance who support #freethought about everything, just EVERYTHING.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-this-jewish-conservative-student-was-forced-to-go-into-hiding/

So you start this discussion with sarcasm and the usual "SO MUCH FOR THE TOLERANT LEFT" schtick. Then use a site know for such thought provoking pieces as Do ‘Liberals’ at the University of Texas Want to Designate Masculinity a Mental Illness?  Rated False(Snopes) , Between 2008 and 2014, “criminal aliens accounted for 38 percent of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York.”  Rated False(Politifact), “During his first presidential campaign in 2008, Mr. Obama used a secret back channel to Tehran to assure the mullahs that he was a friend of the Islamic Republic, and that they would be very happy with his policies.”  Rated False(Politifact), and was a source for this Trump Tweet No, 96% of Google news stories on Trump aren’t from left-wing outlets Rated False(Politifact).

5 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Like this and this and this.

You then bring up three sources for left wing extremism: the IRS, Josef Stalin, and the Cult of Reason, with the IRS "extremism" being the only one from the last 50 years let alone the 21st century. Let's look the US's Domestic attacks from the last decade:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/homegrown-terrorists-2018-were-almost-all-right-wing/581284/ "the far right had an almost absolute monopoly on lethal terrorism in the United States last year. That monopoly would be total if, in one case, the perpetrator had not “switched from white supremacist to radical Islamist beliefs prior to committing the murder”."

https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled-by-right-wing-extremists/ (2017) "Out of 65 incidents, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations. 11 attacks were inspired by left-leaning ideologies. And seven were linked to Islamic extremists"

https://www.revealnews.org/article/home-is-where-the-hate-is/

https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column_article/right-wing-terrorism-and-the-enemy-within  "Between 2009 and 2018, 73.3% of all domestic extremist-related killings have been perpetrated by right-wing extremists."

You also classify a strictly Atheistic group as left wing. Would you then classify the Islamist extremist groups as right wing? They seem to share similar goals with many of the groups that Patine linked.

Also, I find it funny that you use an example of the "not so tolerant left" with doxxing and harassment a week after the controversy surrounding the doxxing and harassment of left wing journalist Carlos Maza, as well as the "Make America Straight Again" celebration of the Orlando nightclub shooting https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/06/preachers-make-america-straight-event-orlando-theyre-praying-violence/   https://wgntv.com/2019/06/13/florida-church-plans-to-host-make-america-straight-again-event/  https://www.indy100.com/article/homophobic-pastors-make-america-straight-again-orlando-revival-baptist-church-pulse-massacre-8959231   So much for the Religion of "Love thy Neighbor"

 

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As an Independent Centrist I've found both sides to be pretty intolerant but the right has shown to be considerably more tolerant in my opinion. There's more variety of beliefs on the right than the left, which mostly has people all having the same beliefs.

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3 hours ago, avatarmushi said:

Also, I find it funny that you use an example of the "not so tolerant left" with doxxing and harassment a week after the controversy surrounding the doxxing and harassment of left wing journalist Carlos Maza, as well as the "Make America Straight Again" celebration of the Orlando nightclub shooting https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/06/preachers-make-america-straight-event-orlando-theyre-praying-violence/   https://wgntv.com/2019/06/13/florida-church-plans-to-host-make-america-straight-again-event/  https://www.indy100.com/article/homophobic-pastors-make-america-straight-again-orlando-revival-baptist-church-pulse-massacre-8959231   So much for the Religion of "Love thy Neighbor"

 

Just to be clear I consider the doxxing of the Carlos Maza just as bad and the Make America Straight Again event worse

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9 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

Liberals are the epitome of #tolerance who support #freethought about everything, just EVERYTHING.

 

There are bad people in both the left and the right, but it is unfair to generalize the whole group by the actions of some within it. That does not mean the actions aren't bad, but saying "liberals" always do this is not an accurate representation of the group. 

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15 minutes ago, Hestia11 said:

There are bad people in both the left and the right, but it is unfair to generalize the whole group by the actions of some within it. That does not mean the actions aren't bad, but saying "liberals" always do this is not an accurate representation of the group. 

True. It's just me being cynical about people who claim "absolute tolerance".

3 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

Very strange. Almost like they're trying to make themselves look oppressed in the media...

Oh well. Better give the false state more foreign aid.

Found this recently on a Hebrew Website

Quote

“אני מאמין שישראל הגיעה לסוף תקופת הילדות שלה, ושהיא התבגרה מספיק כדי להגיע למצב של עצמאות כלכלית”. כך אמר ראש הממשלה בנימין נתניהו בנאום בפני הקונגרס בשנת 1998, שבו הצהיר כי ישראל מתכוונת להפסיק את הסיוע הכלכלי שהיא מקבלת מארה”ב. אם ב־1998 הייתה ישראל יכולה להשתחרר מתלות כלכלית בארה”ב, על אחת כמה וכמה שהדבר נכון כעבור עשרים שנה של פריחה כלכלית מתמדת.

"I believe that Israel has reached the end of its childhood and that it has matured enough to reach a situation of economic independence." So said PM Benjamin Netanyahu in a speech before Congress in the year 1998, where he revealed that Israel intended to put an end to the economic aid it received from the US. If in 1998 Israel was able to free from economic dependence on the US, how much the more so is it able to do so after 20 years of economic prosperity.

Moshe Feiglin interestingly supports ending it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-mk-feiglin-its-immoral-for-israel-to-take-us-aid/

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4 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

True. It's just me being cynical about people who claim "absolute tolerance".

However, this could be turned around by saying about many right-wing groups, "True. It's just me being cynical about people who claim "moral rectitude"."

 

4 hours ago, NYrepublican said:

What does Israel produce, other than proprietary armaments (Uzis, Kfirs, Merkavas, etc.) that would keep them afloat economically, in the lifestyle and situation they're used to, or somewhere close to it (certainly significantly higher than those in their region - except, for very despicable and unmerited reasons, the Persian Gulf Monarchies) that they can export reliably to a more or less secure market?

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7 hours ago, Patine said:

However, this could be turned around by saying about many right-wing groups, "True. It's just me being cynical about people who claim "moral rectitude"."

 

And in many cases you have every right to be

7 hours ago, Patine said:

 

What does Israel produce, other than proprietary armaments (Uzis, Kfirs, Merkavas, etc.) that would keep them afloat economically, in the lifestyle and situation they're used to, or somewhere close to it (certainly significantly higher than those in their region - except, for very despicable and unmerited reasons, the Persian Gulf Monarchies) that they can export reliably to a more or less secure market?

Here's data on Israeli exports. Asian countries take up an icnreasingly larger share. https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/isr/

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