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1 minute ago, Actinguy said:

You're taking the "Trump is a rational person who acts rationally" theory

Yes, because he has a string of successes which are difficult to explain otherwise. The other explanation is luck, in which case Trump winning the Presidency is tantamount to a miracle. I think it was hard work, ingenuity, cleverness, boldness, and very careful deliberations, i.e., being rational.

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6 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

Hard to say.

So Trump had such a big ego that he decided to run for President, but simultaneously didn't think he would win?

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5 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Yes, because he has a string of successes which are difficult to explain otherwise. The other explanation is luck, in which case Trump winning the Presidency is tantamount to a miracle. I think it was hard work, ingenuity, cleverness, boldness, and very careful deliberations, i.e., being rational.

Trump absolutely is clever and bold. He's also extremely charismatic. A Trump rally is literally unlike any other political rally. It's an event. Trump and the people at those rallies absolutely love and feed off of each other. That is another big part in why he got elected. His physical campaigning is probably his biggest strength imo.

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10 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

"If Trump was just expanding his brand, he would have backed down" is ignoring the reality that "Trump is always right" IS Trump's brand.

Then why did he set himself up to be in such a public relations nightmare as making his initial speech? He must be pretty stupid then, yes?

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9 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Yes, because he has a string of successes which are difficult to explain otherwise. The other explanation is luck, in which case Trump winning the Presidency is tantamount to a miracle. I think it was hard work, ingenuity, cleverness, boldness, and very careful deliberations, i.e., being rational.

I think most rational people hold themselves back sometimes because they worry about rational consequences if they are wrong.  Trump has never faced a consequence in his entire life, so the idea that "this might hurt me" is never on his radar.  

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4 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

So Trump had such a big ego that he decided to run for President, but simultaneously didn't think he would win?

His ego said "I would be a great President."  The TV told him that he could never win.  Thus, that wounded his ego and he lashed out at everyone.

Now, how was that a winning strategy?  I honestly can't say, unless it was just Republican voters desperately looking for someone who had what it took to go hard after Hillary.



 

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Just now, Actinguy said:

Trump has never faced a consequence in his entire life

So Trump built a business worth probably around $3B by the time he ran for Presidency while simultaneously being oblivious to consequences?

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1 minute ago, Actinguy said:

His ego said "I would be a great President."  The TV told him that he could never win.

So he believed he could and would win? It was just hostile media telling him he couldn't? (I'm trying to understand your position here.)

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5 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Then why did he set himself up to be in such a public relations nightmare as making his initial speech? He must be pretty stupid then, yes?

I don't think he foresaw that it could be a PR nightmare because he is incapable of foreseeing the possibility of consequences for his actions.

I think that certain people stroked his ego on Twitter, and so he repeated the other things these Tweeters say, because what the hell does he know about what is and is not wrong with our country?  Then he was surprised by the backlash but incapable of backing down, so instead he just doubled down and doubled down and doubled down and now he praises actual dictators at every point and he will never stop because he will never face consequences for his actions.

 

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1 minute ago, Actinguy said:

I don't think he foresaw that it could be a PR nightmare because he is incapable of foreseeing the possibility of consequences for his actions.

I think this is the 'Trump is a clueless moron, but inexplicably incredibly successful' theory. I rather the 'Trump is very clever, calculating, and rational, which is why he is incredibly successful' theory.

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Just now, admin_270 said:

So he believed he could and would win? It was just hostile media telling him he couldn't? (I'm trying to understand your position here.)

No, I believe that he believed he SHOULD win, and that America would benefit from it, but that "the powers that be" (probably Republican leadership, but read into it whatever you want) would refuse to let him do so.

Not becoming President in and of itself is not a consequence -- Trump has had plenty of failures before this, and suffered no consequences for them.  It was all just a chance for him to stroke his ego and have rallies with fans who would tell him how wonderful he is and how he SHOULD be President even if those bozos in the Republican party leadership won't let him.  

Instead, the bozos actually did let him, because they were too afraid to try to stop him, and now Trump has to put his money where his mouth is and it turns out he's broke.

He'll never admit it, because he can't, but he never expected he would actually have to DO the things that he claimed all along were so easy.

 

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6 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

So Trump built a business worth probably around $3B by the time he ran for Presidency while simultaneously being oblivious to consequences?

How is becoming a billionaire a consequence?  I guess it's a consequence in the positive sense of the word, but I am referring to punishments.

 

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Just now, admin_270 said:

Then why did he set himself up to be in such a public relations nightmare as making his initial speech? He must be pretty stupid then, yes?

I don’t think foresight is one of Trump’s areas of expertise. In some ways, he is quite stupid. In a way, I think he feeds off negative attention, despite a sort of desperation to be liked by those that already like him and will always like him. Some of his speeches seem to be like spur of the moment, gut instinct monologues. He probably doesn’t even remember what he said, what he promised, what he endorsed during those. It’s almost like he’s a early onset dementia individual that’s on a lot of speed. He’s high energy but he’s also lost some mental control, including a loss of an editing mechanism. My dad, who was 45 when I was born, had this issue when he was Trump’s age. A loss of the ability to restrain themselves mentally (i. e. Near loss of an editing mechanism). Both used to be much more in control mentally and verbally. Trump as president in 1992 would have been a slight improvement to Trump in 2016. 

My dad, who voted for Perot, would been a hardcore Trump supporter if he were still alive.  

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1 minute ago, Actinguy said:

Instead, the bozos actually did let him

Do you think the Republican leadership wanted Trump to win? There was intense hostility amongst the GOP elites to Trump's run. They 'let him' win in the sense of not being unfair in the primaries process toward him. Dispatching 16 mostly politically experienced opponents was Trump's doing, not the GOP elite's.

 

3 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

He'll never admit it, because he can't, but he never expected he would actually have to DO the things that he claimed all along were so easy.

So again, he had a massive ego, but it wasn't so large as to let him believe he would win?

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I'll admit that I bought into the Trump hype about 15 years ago or so.  I loved the original Apprentice (though I didn't bother watching the Celebrity version -- that took away the fun of seeing real people competing).  God help me, I bought and still play the Apprentice board game.  It's fun!

But his birther movement (claiming he had PROOF at one point that Obama was not a US Citizen) was the permanent turn-off for me.  His official kick-off speech ("Some, I assume, are good people") was just confirmation for me that Trump was a huge racist who should not (and would not) be taken seriously.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

How is becoming a billionaire a consequence?

In order to build a (very complex) company to that level of success, a person has to understand likely consequences for certain kinds of behaviour.

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Just now, admin_270 said:

Do you think the Republican leadership wanted Trump to win? There was intense hostility amongst the GOP elites to Trump's run. They 'let him' win in the sense of not being unfair in the primaries process toward him. Dispatching 16 mostly politically experienced opponents was Trump's doing, not the GOP elite's.

 

So again, he had a massive ego, but it wasn't so large as to let him believe he would win?

No, I don't think leadership wanted Trump to win the nomination -- they were just afraid and clueless of how to stop someone who is incapable of experiencing shame.

Trump's ego is simply that he is always right.  He is obviously aware that other people disagree with him -- he's really good at coming up with insults for these people, so he knows they exist.  It was not unimaginable that these people would beat him in the race -- it just didn't matter.  It might even have been preferable, for him, because then he could make up bullshit about them changing the rules or falsifying the votes or whatever so he could keep stroking his ego as the "true" President despite being denied the White House.

Instead, he won.  So now he has to actually make decisions, and experience criticism from those decisions.  That's certainly not preferable to him.

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7 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I don’t think foresight is one of Trump’s areas of expertise. In some ways, he is quite stupid.

This sounds a lot like 'he just bumbled his way through the primaries', which seems unlikely to me. His initial speech, it seems to me, was obviously planned. He had developed a campaign strategy, and that was the opening lightning bolt designed to distinguish himself from a crowded field.

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1 minute ago, admin_270 said:

In order to build a (very complex) company to that level of success, a person has to understand likely consequences for certain kinds of behaviour.

No, RATIONAL people have to do that.  

Irrational people can just keep going, commit crimes, make threats, refuse to pay bills to contractors, and just keep going because they can afford better attorneys than anyone else can.

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Just now, Actinguy said:

How is becoming a billionaire a consequence?  I guess it's a consequence in the positive sense of the word, but I am referring to punishments.

 

I’ll tag @admin_270

and now we know he lost 1B in a decade between 1985-1994. The fact that he’s hiding his taxes might also be because he’s lost money in this current decade as well. 

I fail to see anything worth admiring about Trump. About anything one could offer can easily be dismissed. It’s even been said that he lost more money than just about everyone during that decade. 

It’s shocking that he has some ability to cause hallucinations in 35% of voters in to making them believe that he is somehow a credible individual. His followers are more likely to believe him than fact checkers! 

I forgot to mention honesty and integrity in my list of temperaments. Trump obviously hasn’t either. 

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2 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

No, RATIONAL people have to do that.  

Irrational people can just keep going, commit crimes, make threats, refuse to pay bills to contractors, and just keep going because they can afford better attorneys than anyone else can.

So irrationality is an asset in building $3B businesses?

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3 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

In order to build a (very complex) company to that level of success, a person has to understand likely consequences for certain kinds of behaviour.

I’m pretty sure he pays people to do that part for him. Then he fires them. You seem to think he’s capable of being the primary architect of building his own company. Had he the mental prowess to do so, it was when he had a younger brain. 

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2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

and now we know he lost 1B in a decade between 1985-1994.

Exactly - and Trump's business troubles during that period are well known. He learned from his mistakes and rebuilt his business until it had a net worth of ~3B by 2016, putting him among the wealthiest people in the world.

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Just now, admin_270 said:

So irrationality is an asset in building $3B businesses?

Well...yes.

I don't think a rational person gets $1B and decides to risk it to get $2B.

Of course, as we now know from the recent New York Times article, he did in fact lose $1B between 1985 - 1994.  But banks kept giving him money anyway because they bought into his "Trump is always right" brand.

 

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Just now, vcczar said:

You seem to think he’s capable of being the primary architect of building his own company. Had he the mental prowess to do so, it was when he had a younger brain.

I see - so he's just a really lucky guy who happened to bumble into a $3B business, and then bumble into winning the Republican nomination, and then bumble into winning the Presidency. I don't buy it, guys.

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