Jump to content
270soft Forum
Guest

College Debt Crisis

Recommended Posts

Guest

Outside of a "Free college for all" position, I'm curious to hear ideas that this group has for improving upon the current system.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HonestAbe said:

Outside of a "Free college for all" position, I'm curious to hear ideas that this group has for improving upon the current system.  

My wife and I both have zero college debt. 

I served in the military for six years, and then when I got out the government covered not just my tuition but also the rent for my two bedroom apartment, food, and books while I went to school.  Thanks to my free diploma and Veteran experience, I now make six figures.

My wife was a nurse's aid (a job you only need a high school diploma for).  Her employer asked if anyone would be interested in becoming a nurse, and they would pay the tuition in exchange for a commitment to work there for something like 2 years.  She jumped at the chance.  Now she has the luxury of setting her own hours as a home hospice nurse.

To be clear, this wasn't some "previous generation" thing.  My wife and I are both in our early 30's -- which apparently qualifies us as part of the millennials.

Obviously the military is not for everyone, and neither is being a nurse's aid.  But I think we need more of these opportunities where you commit to doing selfless and arguably unpleasant work for a couple years in exchange for free schooling and a better future, setting you on the path for success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HonestAbe said:

Outside of a "Free college for all" position, I'm curious to hear ideas that this group has for improving upon the current system.  

Stop making access to loans so easy.

Reduce federal aid (easy access to money increases price)

Stop building 5 star luxury hotels as dorms.

At public universities, stop offering degrees in useless subjects.

End affirmative action policies and allow everyone to compete equally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
45 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Stop making access to loans so easy.

Reduce federal aid (easy access to money increases price)

Stop building 5 star luxury hotels as dorms.

At public universities, stop offering degrees in useless subjects.

End affirmative action policies and allow everyone to compete equally.

Interesting one-liners, but what legislation would you design to achieve these aims?  How would it be structured?  Are you wanting to have government determine what a college is allowed to offer as a degree program?  Not sure I can get on board with that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, HonestAbe said:

Interesting one-liners, but what legislation would you design to achieve these aims?  How would it be structured?  Are you wanting to have government determine what a college is allowed to offer as a degree program?  Not sure I can get on board with that.  

Get rid of federal student loans and get rid of federal student grants.  This reduces the access to easy money and forces colleges to have to be more competitive with pricing.

At the state level, state governments should attach restrictions to funding.  Among those, the end of affirmative action policies and a restriction on degrees offered.  If private colleges want to go ahead with either of those (without any taxpayer dollars), then they can go ahead.  However, tax payer money shouldn't be used for these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, HonestAbe said:

Outside of a "Free college for all" position, I'm curious to hear ideas that this group has for improving upon the current system.  

Why is "free college for all" position struck immediately. Like I argue with health coverage, the U.S. is the wealthiest nation in the world, but has coverage as crummy as India, Mexico, or Brazil. There is no reason for this other than the fact that the budget is misappropriated to priorities that are obsolete and, even, at many times, outright criminal, as well as things like corporate welfare. The money is there to serve the American people and make their lives far better, instead of making a tiny, elite oligarchy richer and killing more people (or enabling the killing of more people by others), both abroad and domestically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Free college for all" who get accepted? Or "free college for every person in society"? Very different propositions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

"Free college for all" who get accepted? Or "free college for every person in society"? Very different propositions.

I would say they'd have to academically qualify for the courses they wanted to pursue. That would be common sense (then again, maybe not nowadays, where common sense is at a premium across the political spectrum, becoming rarer and rarer the more extreme you get to either tip of each wing, and populism, regardless of the ideology it's pushing, inherently kills a big chunk of said common sense on it's own).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we're talking free public university for a select %, that's already the case (scholarships and bursaries).

There's also free private university for a select %.

My best advice to people is look long and hard at whether university is worth it. Pick a path that's likely to lead to > $s than the cost to get it.

Look at doing a public college the first 2 years then transferring to a university. Look at living at home during at least part of university, and so attending a local university. Make sure you don't pay out-of-state tuition rates. Be very skeptical of loans.

The cost of university over the last several decades has gone way up - in a way inexplicably, as the cost of distributing information has gone way down. (In my technical field, universities are almost completely antiquated outside of a credentialing mechanism. You can learn everything you want or need typically better online at a fraction of the cost.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my pet peeves is actually college *text books* (and this applies to high schools and elementary schools, but there the costs are absorbed by the parents or taxpayers instead). Usually, these textbooks are transparently a scam, designed to line the pockets of already wealthy academics. I have great sympathy for students (some of the poorest of society) avoiding the costs of these textbooks somehow. (The situation is similar to academic journals, which cost university libraries huge amounts of money, where the research being published in many cases is actually *paid for* by public institutions!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
33 minutes ago, Patine said:

Why is "free college for all" position struck immediately. Like I argue with health coverage, the U.S. is the wealthiest nation in the world, but has coverage as crummy as India, Mexico, or Brazil. There is no reason for this other than the fact that the budget is misappropriated to priorities that are obsolete and, even, at many times, outright criminal, as well as things like corporate welfare. The money is there to serve the American people and make their lives far better, instead of making a tiny, elite oligarchy richer and killing more people (or enabling the killing of more people by others), both abroad and domestically.

It's not struck, in fact I actually beat everyone to it, by entering it as a choice.  I'm curious who has ideas for alternatives.  I'm not debating merit, I'm asking for a variety of ideas.  Free for all is easily understood, and by me leading with I in fact entered it into an understood option.  I'm asking for others.  If you got one you can play too.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HonestAbe said:

It's not struck, in fact I actually beat everyone to it, by entering it as a choice.  I'm curious who has ideas for alternatives.  I'm not debating merit, I'm asking for a variety of ideas.  Free for all is easily understood, and by me leading with I in fact entered it into an understood option.  I'm asking for others.  If you got one you can play too.  :)

I'm disappointed no one has responded to my comment, though of course it's only been a few hours.

I think a few years of work in exchange for free education is a happy medium between "free for all" and "nobody can fucking afford this."  It already exists in some fields, proving the concept.  It just needs to be expanded to cover more potential paths/fields.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I think a few years of work in exchange for free education

Sounds like a good idea. Another option is to provide free education but then 'tithe' a % of a person's income up until a certain amount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Actinguy said:

"nobody can fucking afford this."

Except this is never true. If no one could afford it, no universities would exist. The problem (jvikings1 points to this) is irresponsible subsidizing of education costs with loans, which causes many people to be able to afford it who *shouldn't* be. Get rid of the loan (and other) subsidies, the cost will drop as the demand curve kicks in (most of the cost of university educations is fluff).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
11 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I'm disappointed no one has responded to my comment, though of course it's only been a few hours.

I think a few years of work in exchange for free education is a happy medium between "free for all" and "nobody can fucking afford this."  It already exists in some fields, proving the concept.  It just needs to be expanded to cover more potential paths/fields.

A tradeoff style system sure seems logical doesn't it.  

 

I was hoping for more participation here as well, especially from those that generally post multiple times every single day, and complain about issues.  Here was a chance to enter a solution, and it's crickets.  Anyway.  

 

Here is my concept, please pick away at it. 

1. US government become the handler of student loans in America.  

2. Loans are given interest free, but are paid directly to the university so money loaned is for education costs only. 

3. Loans must be paid back in whole by the recipient. 

4. Loan repayment will begin 12 months after your final class, or within 8 years of the first loan received whichever comes first. 

5. Income will be garnished at a rate of 10% each pay check until loan is repaid.  (If you lose your job for a time, your loan payment gets put on hold)  The more you earn the larger your repayment is.

6. Universities are not allowed to increase tuition more than the rate of inflation over any 3 year sliding window of time.

7. Public universities who do increase costs beyond that window get a 1 year probationary window to recalibrate.

8. After 1 year probation state/federal funding is frozen minimum of 12 months until costs fall back in line with part 6. 

 

In essence this will 1. slow down the rising costs of college  2. allow for interest free access to funding  3.  requires all to pay back their costs, but in a fashion that it only occurs once you are employed, and at a rate that is affordable, 4. it makes the borrower consider career earnings vs. cost directly. 

 

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

One of my pet peeves is actually college *text books* (and this applies to high schools and elementary schools, but there the costs are absorbed by the parents or taxpayers instead). Usually, these textbooks are transparently a scam, designed to line the pockets of already wealthy academics. I have great sympathy for students (some of the poorest of society) avoiding the costs of these textbooks somehow. (The situation is similar to academic journals, which cost university libraries huge amounts of money, where the research being published in many cases is actually *paid for* by public institutions!)

This is definitely true.  You have companies like e-campus which have partnerships with universities (like my own) which allows you to barge your student account (kinda like a credit card).  However, the costs are greatly inflated.  And, when you try and sell them back, they offer you next to nothing for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Actinguy said:

I think a few years of work in exchange for free education

 

19 minutes ago, admin_270 said:

Sounds like a good idea. Another option is to provide free education but then 'tithe' a % of a person's income up until a certain amount.

The flaw with this idea is a lot of people can lose out unjustly because employment hikes at a REALLY bad time and they just can't get unemployment. And, because unemployment is caused due to government and corporate mismanagement and incompetence and trade and commodity price with foreign countries, and is beyond the power of common citizens to avoid, mitigate, or often even predict, it can easily add to the sense of helplessness stacked on to a person during such economic weak points as is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Patine said:

The flaw with this idea is a lot of people can lose out unjustly because employment hikes at a REALLY bad time and they just can't get unemployment.

Don't understand what you're saying here. The idea with providing a free education but then tithing a % of that person's income is that the educational institution *doesn't get paid* unless the former student starts making money. If they're unemployed, it's the institution that is purporting to help get the student on a career track that loses out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

And, when you try and sell them back, they offer you next to nothing for them.

Yep, total scam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with jvikings1 that loans are a bad idea - they simply ratchet up the cost of the tuition and related expenses. They should be discouraged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jvikings1 said:

At public universities, stop offering degrees in useless subjects.

I think people should be able to major in whatever they want to major in (Now if they're majoring in political science and expecting to make six figures right out of college, that's totally different). Plus, what majors are useless degrees? History, womens & gender studies, political science, black studies, and English are all often viewed as "useless" because they don't prepare you for any specific jobs, but they're certainly not useless. They are all reading and writing heavy and teach you many of the soft skills jobs desire. Additionally, there are certain jobs that require a college degree, but require no specific major, like human resources and sales. If you're okay with working one of those jobs, you should be able to study whatever you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, jnewt said:

what majors are useless degrees?

Pretty much all majors are useless the majority of the time for teaching specific skills relevant to a person's future career.  At the least, they are significantly sub-optimal. I remember lots of jokes about Arts degrees at university, but is a biology degree going to get you a job related specifically to biology? A physics degree? Not usually. Exceptions would be more career-specific degrees like engineering, nursing, law, medicine, pharmacy.

Someone wants to learn about history on their own time using a public library? Great. But the question is whether people (taxpayers) should be forced to subsidize someone wanting to do that, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...