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Herbert Hoover

Founding Fathers: The Young Republic

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24 minutes ago, Agent B said:

Jefferson will accept the nomination.

Also, it is my understanding that each of our 5 factions must vote on things as an 'all or nothing' vote.  Not split between conservative statesmen and liberal. Correct?

I see no reason you wouldn't be able to.

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16 minutes ago, Agent B said:

Living rules, page 6, item 3

Nevermind. You are correct. It doesn't make a difference in this scenario, but going forward that is good to know. 

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2 minutes ago, Herbert Hoover said:

Nevermind. You are correct. It doesn't make a difference in this scenario, but going forward that is good to know. 

*thumbs up*

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17 minutes ago, Herbert Hoover said:

@vcczar Does Washington accept the nomination? I would assume so. 

If so, action is to @Kingthero to select a VP. 

Washington will run for reelection. 

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5 hours ago, Agent B said:

Living rules, page 6, item 3

I'm going to bring this up for discussion, and you all let me know how you feel.

I would like to add the ability to split your votes by statesmen, and to also abstain. My justification for doing so is that there is little reason in which splitting your vote would benefit you, and for RP reasons I'll elect to allow it.

If it is used not in good faith, we can revoke the permission to do so but see no real issue with it. There is only one scenario where I can see it working out poorly, and that is as potentially forcing another player to buy votes. For example, for women's suffrage:

Dr. Insano: 12 votes nay

Mlcorcoran: 7 votes aye

Agent B: 11 votes nay

Kingthero: 2 votes aye, 4 nay 

Vcczar: 15 votes aye, would have to spend 1IP to resolve the issue. This would give power to the second to last voter to make an issue require an IP to pass through Congress by the President's party. However, if the second to last player is hostile enough to be attempting to waste the president's IP, I doubt that they will want to have the option to pass the legislation in the first place. 

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Making things too complicated when I don't even know how to play lmao.

 

I nominate John Jay for Vice President?

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Ok, you know what I'm done with this.

I'm completely new to this game and am learning as I go. You've even chimed in on the other game to explain to us how it's designed to be a certain way and we need to play accordingly to reach our goals. 

Then you proposed this game and I thought, "hmm, could be neat to get a different perspective on how it could play out from a new angle."

But here we are, only 4 pages deep and we are now called to vote on how we want to vote?

Followed by a day of voting out of turn and on multiple issues at once simply because you don't feel they matter that much? 

All during a chunk of the day when you couldn't be consistently available to moderate the chaos you wanted to in moderate in the first place? So you told us to proceed without you and brush up on the rules so we actually can?

Well, the rules say to vote in turn, with all yays! nays! or abstentions. Probably by design so that perhaps someone who IS hostile enough may want to see the game follow a different direction.

And now it will, because I'm just going to focus on my first game. 

Sorry.

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5 hours ago, Herbert Hoover said:

I'm going to bring this up for discussion, and you all let me know how you feel.

I would like to add the ability to split your votes by statesmen, and to also abstain. My justification for doing so is that there is little reason in which splitting your vote would benefit you, and for RP reasons I'll elect to allow it.

If it is used not in good faith, we can revoke the permission to do so but see no real issue with it. There is only one scenario where I can see it working out poorly, and that is as potentially forcing another player to buy votes. For example, for women's suffrage:

Dr. Insano: 12 votes nay

Mlcorcoran: 7 votes aye

Agent B: 11 votes nay

Kingthero: 2 votes aye, 4 nay 

Vcczar: 15 votes aye, would have to spend 1IP to resolve the issue. This would give power to the second to last voter to make an issue require an IP to pass through Congress by the President's party. However, if the second to last player is hostile enough to be attempting to waste the president's IP, I doubt that they will want to have the option to pass the legislation in the first place. 

I think splitting the vote will just slow the game down as well. You'd also have to reformat the spreadsheet. 

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2 hours ago, Agent B said:

Ok, you know what I'm done with this.

I'm completely new to this game and am learning as I go. You've even chimed in on the other game to explain to us how it's designed to be a certain way and we need to play accordingly to reach our goals. 

Then you proposed this game and I thought, "hmm, could be neat to get a different perspective on how it could play out from a new angle."

But here we are, only 4 pages deep and we are now called to vote on how we want to vote?

Followed by a day of voting out of turn and on multiple issues at once simply because you don't feel they matter that much? 

All during a chunk of the day when you couldn't be consistently available to moderate the chaos you wanted to in moderate in the first place? So you told us to proceed without you and brush up on the rules so we actually can?

Well, the rules say to vote in turn, with all yays! nays! or abstentions. Probably by design so that perhaps someone who IS hostile enough may want to see the game follow a different direction.

And now it will, because I'm just going to focus on my first game. 

Sorry.

That's fine! The above mentioned rule change is really just for RP anyway, but I apologize for the confusion regarding it. I was pointing out how it could be abused, but I mentioned that I didn't want it used in bad faith like that.

I allow people to vote out of turn if they want to. There is a set order to the voting (and one that we have followed) but if you feel as though the order in which you cast your vote doesn't matter, you can vote early. 

I understand your decision to bow out, and wish you good luck in your other game on the forum. I don't think anything I did was particularly unreasonable, but I will go ahead and poll the other players to see if they'd rather continue or not. @vcczar @Kingthero @mlcorcoran @Dr. Insano Would you all like continue and return his statesmen to the deck or distribute them, or end the game prematurely?

It seems like the addition isn't a friendly one so it won't be added, thanks for the feedbacks guys :)

@Kingthero

At this point in the game, you control Jefferson, the Liberal nominee. This means that you must select a Liberal Vice Presidential nominee. Your vice presidential nominee will start in their home state during the election phase, and will move from state to state claiming electoral votes alongside the presidential nominees as this is still pre 12th amendment. The party with public support moves their candidates first. 

For example, you choose Gallatin, and @vcczar chooses Jay. 

Washington would begin in Virinia

Jay in New York

Jefferson in Virginia (both spots are now taken up)

Gallatin in PA. 

From these spots, candidates can make into other states as defined on the spreadsheets election tab. For example, Jay can move from New York to either New England or Pennsylvania. Elections are very confusing prior to the 12th Amendment. 

Edit: It was my mistake to @you. Jefferson and agent b were the nominees. However, the new nominee is @mlcorcoran's Pinckney due to Agent  B focusing on the other RP. Benjamin Franklin the nominee if you decline.

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6 minutes ago, mlcorcoran said:

I'd suggest returning AgentB's statesmen to the deck so that it is luck of the draw where they end up 

Will do! 

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15 minutes ago, Herbert Hoover said:

That's fine! The above mentioned rule change is really just for RP anyway, but I apologize for the confusion regarding it. I was pointing out how it could be abused, but I mentioned that I didn't want it used in bad faith like that.

I allow people to vote out of turn if they want to. There is a set order to the voting (and one that we have followed) but if you feel as though the order in which you cast your vote doesn't matter, you can vote early. 

I understand your decision to bow out, and wish you good luck in your other game on the forum. I don't think anything I did was particularly unreasonable, but I will go ahead and poll the other players to see if they'd rather continue or not. @vcczar @Kingthero @mlcorcoran @Dr. Insano Would you all like continue and return his statesmen to the deck or distribute them, or end the game prematurely?

It seems like the addition isn't a friendly one so it won't be added, thanks for the feedbacks guys :)

@Kingthero

At this point in the game, you control Jefferson, the Liberal nominee. This means that you must select a Liberal Vice Presidential nominee. Your vice presidential nominee will start in their home state during the election phase, and will move from state to state claiming electoral votes alongside the presidential nominees as this is still pre 12th amendment. The party with public support moves their candidates first. 

For example, you choose Gallatin, and @vcczar chooses Jay. 

Washington would begin in Virinia

Jay in New York

Jefferson in Virginia (both spots are now taken up)

Gallatin in PA. 

From these spots, candidates can make into other states as defined on the spreadsheets election tab. For example, Jay can move from New York to either New England or Pennsylvania. Elections are very confusing prior to the 12th Amendment. 

Edit: It was my mistake to @you. Jefferson and agent b were the nominees. However, the new nominee is @mlcorcoran's Pinckney due to Agent  B focusing on the other RP. Benjamin Franklin the nominee if you decline.

I would like to continue, but just to let you know I work late today so I probably won't be able to post until 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time

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@Herbert Hoover I'd definitely like to continue. I definitely like playing more than GMing. 

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George Washington frantically paces back and forth in the executive mansion, powder from his wig falling onto his shoulder.

"My dentures for a Pennsylvania man! Why are they all liberals?"

He continues pacing, thinks about Mount Vernon, and then calms down.

"It would be pointless to select a man from Massachusetts. A man from South Carolina won't do. That leaves me with New York."

He continues pacing.

"My dentures for a Pennsylvania man!"

He continues pacing.

"Send me John Jay." 

Washington's secretary heads out the door. Washington sit back to Mount Vernon sketchbook, having finally arranged the back garden to his liking. A knock is heard at the door.

"Come in."

The gout-ridden Franklin hobbles towards Washington.

"Mr. President the Liberal nomination has been thrust upon me. Obviously, I'm not fit for your office. So I have a plan."

Washington says nothing and waits. Franklin continues.

"I've selected Edmund Randolph for my VP nominee. As you hold the votes of Virginia, I will have him hold the votes of Maryland. This should nicely bottle us up, so that you can take the delegates of the South and, if you select a New Yorker, you can take the delegates North of Pennsylvania."

Does @Kingthero John Jay accepts Washington's offer of VP nominee? 

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12 minutes ago, Kingthero said:

@vcczar Yes.

Great! It seem a though @vcczar has already made his move opening moves as well, though I'm not sure he has taken into account that two nominees can occupy the same space in pre 12th Amendment elections. Edmund Randolph should begin in Virginia alongside Washington. 

The Election of 1792 pitted the popular and somewhat absent minded President Washington and his Secretary of State John Jay against the Liberal Postmaster General Benjamin Franklin and Chief Justice Edmund Randolph. The election serves as a referendum on America's first powerful executive, and his silencing of critical Liberal newspapers makes his reelection very likely. Benjamin Franklin and John Jay are grossly unpopular in the South, and it is guaranteed that the split ticket of Washington/Randolph will carry all states south of Pennsylvania. 

Washington begins in Virginia, and may move to Ohio, Maryland, or the Carolinas. 

John Jay begins in New York, and may move to either New England or Pennsylvania. Moving to Pennsylvania will make Pennsylvania full, meaning that Franklin will be the only other candidate eligible to move to New York and New England after Jay. 

Benjamin Franklin will begin in Pennsylvania, and may move to either Ohio, Maryland, New Jersey, or New York. Moving to New York will make New York full, and no other candidate will be able to reach further to the north. 

Edmund Randolph will begin in Virginia. This locks Virginia in the very beginning, and Randolph may move to Ohio, Maryland, or the Carolinas. 

The first move is to @vcczar

John Jay is locked in regardless, as he has only two moves that he can make. There will be no input required from @Kingthero because his candidate is more or less landlocked. 

The 3rd move will be to @vcczar again, as will the 4th. Make all of your moves and I will calculate the results. 

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The guaranteed minimum for each candidate:

1. Franklin: 65 EV

2. Jay: 50 EV. Maximum of 65. 

3. Washington: 59 EV

4. Randolph: 59 EV.  

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26 minutes ago, Herbert Hoover said:

Great! It seem a though @vcczar has already made his move opening moves as well, though I'm not sure he has taken into account that two nominees can occupy the same space in pre 12th Amendment elections. Edmund Randolph should begin in Virginia alongside Washington. 

The Election of 1792 pitted the popular and somewhat absent minded President Washington and his Secretary of State John Jay against the Liberal Postmaster General Benjamin Franklin and Chief Justice Edmund Randolph. The election serves as a referendum on America's first powerful executive, and his silencing of critical Liberal newspapers makes his reelection very likely. Benjamin Franklin and John Jay are grossly unpopular in the South, and it is guaranteed that the split ticket of Washington/Randolph will carry all states south of Pennsylvania. 

Washington begins in Virginia, and may move to Ohio, Maryland, or the Carolinas. 

John Jay begins in New York, and may move to either New England or Pennsylvania. Moving to Pennsylvania will make Pennsylvania full, meaning that Franklin will be the only other candidate eligible to move to New York and New England after Jay. 

Benjamin Franklin will begin in Pennsylvania, and may move to either Ohio, Maryland, New Jersey, or New York. Moving to New York will make New York full, and no other candidate will be able to reach further to the north. 

Edmund Randolph will begin in Virginia. This locks Virginia in the very beginning, and Randolph may move to Ohio, Maryland, or the Carolinas. 

The first move is to @vcczar

John Jay is locked in regardless, as he has only two moves that he can make. There will be no input required from @Kingthero because his candidate is more or less landlocked. 

The 3rd move will be to @vcczar again, as will the 4th. Make all of your moves and I will calculate the results. 

Yeah I forgot about the pre-12th rules. Trying to multitask with several things and so I make mistakes. 

Ill make moves when I have more time. Alternatively, you can make the moves for me. I’m going to try and get Washington the win. 

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Washington begins in Virginia, and will move to Maryland. 33 EV. 

 John Jay begins in New York, and moves to New England. 50EV. 

Benjamin Franklin will begin in Pennsylvania, and moves to New York. New York is now blocked off. 27EV. 

Edmund Randolph will begin in Virginia. Randolph will move to Maryland. 33EV. 

Washington moves from Maryland to Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is now blocked off. 48EV. 

 John Jay has no more moves. 

Benjamin Franklin moves to New England. 65EV. 

Randolph moves from Maryland to Delaware. 36 EV. 

Washington moves from Pennsylvania to New Jersey. 55 EV. 

John Jay has no more moves. 

 Benjamin Franklin moves to Ohio. 68 EV. 

Randolph moves to New Jersey. New Jersey is now closed off. 43 EV. 

Washington moves to Ohio. Ohio is now closed off. 58 EV. 

Franklin moves to Delaware. 71 EV. 

Washington and Randolph both take Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia for 55 EV each. 

 Grand total:

Washington: 113 Electoral votes. 

 Randolph: 88 Electoral votes. 

Franklin: 71 Electoral votes. 

 Jay: 50 Electoral votes. 

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Point of information for @Dr. Insano

I made a mistake entering in Clinton's ability. He actually has an ability of 1. While this has not been relevant for any reason yet, I still wanted to be transparent with you about it. 

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Washington and Randolph win the election!

In the pre 12th amendment elections, it is often difficult for the same ticket to win an election. 

We will now move into what is known as the Peoples Phase. 

The peoples phase begins by each faction getting +1IP, as well as any statesman who has a recurring IP bonus (such as Burr and Hamilton). 

The next step is 7 action cards being PMed to the player with the fewest VP + Popularity. The first player to be emailed will be @Dr. Insano. The 6 remaining cards will go the next player, and then the 5 to the next, and the final 4 to @vcczar. All remaining cards will be discarded. 

Next, beginning with the player to the left of the President (the same as our current voting order) players take certain actions by using 1IP. Every action requires a dice roll to be successful. Making a speech raises your popularity at a dice roll of 6, but if you roll a 5 you may use 1IP to make up the difference. This works with any action in this phase as long as you have the IP.

Each action can only be done once by each player, but each player can do every action if they so choose and have the IP for it. 

After the President moves, we move into the Auction Round. The auction round is where each player takes turns, starting to the left of the president, bidding for an additional action and action card. 

For example, during the bidding phase, @Dr. Insano bids 1IP, but @Kingthero bids 2IP and gets to choose to do another action and gets a randomly drawn card as well. 

I will go ahead and post the actions you may take, and you can ask questions about it while the action cards make their rounds. 

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Washington celebrates his victory at City Tavern in Philadelphia. He invites only his allies and also his faction members. Washington is seen washing down scrapple with bottles of Madeira. 

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