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Julian Assange arrested

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 Authoritarianism strikes again, what are your thoughts?

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2 hours ago, Dr. Insano said:

 Authoritarianism strikes again, what are your thoughts?

Assange, like Manning and Snowden, are called criminals for basically "sedition" and "treason" and related crimes by the U.S. Government and it's agencies for basically revealing, for all to see, how the U.S. Government and said agencies have clearly committed sedition and treason against their own people. I, myself, think it's obvious the charges are being made and VERY different should be charged for sedition and treason. The armed mobs of justice SHOULD gather at the White House, the Capitol, the Pentagon, and Langley, and the Bush and Cheney family ranches, while their at it, and drag the REAL criminals into the streets to face justice - if only they had the conviction and backbone...

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31 minutes ago, Patine said:

Assange, like Manning and Snowden, are called criminals for basically "sedition" and "treason" and related crimes by the U.S. Government and it's agencies for basically revealing, for all to see, how the U.S. Government and said agencies have clearly committed sedition and treason against their own people. I, myself, think it's obvious the charges are being made and VERY different should be charged for sedition and treason. The armed mobs of justice SHOULD gather at the White House, the Capitol, the Pentagon, and Langley, and the Bush and Cheney family ranches, while their at it, and drag the REAL criminals into the streets to face justice - if only they had the conviction and backbone...

I agree 100% I'm surprised nobody else has an interest in this considering this is probably one of the biggest news stories today.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Insano said:

 Authoritarianism strikes again, what are your thoughts?

Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, and all the other whistleblowers, mired by the "crime" of treason, for informing the American people of how their government has betrayed them, and has become no more than a glorified rouge state, striking fear into the hearts of men, women, and children, with their so-called"War on Terror" which would more accurately be called a War OF Terror, no more than an excuse to enrich death merchants and war profiteers. It sort of reminds me of that old folk song, about a diffrent government sponsored campaign of industrialized murder. 

So do your duty, boys, and join with pride
Serve your country in her suicide
Find the flags so you can wave goodbye
But just before the end even treason might be worth a try
This country is too young to die

I think I've said all I wanted to say, and maybe I've said too much already...

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3 hours ago, Dr. Insano said:

I agree 100% I'm surprised nobody else has an interest in this considering this is probably one of the biggest news stories today.

I think the stuff with Barr and Obama's admin could be seen as 'bigger' in some ways, not sure that is why it is the way it is on the forum, but in general it seems more people are focused on that than anything else these past couple days.

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2 hours ago, SilentLiberty said:

I think the stuff with Barr and Obama's admin could be seen as 'bigger' in some ways, not sure that is why it is the way it is on the forum, but in general it seems more people are focused on that than anything else these past couple days.

Really, that's MAJOR small potatoes compared to the biggest breach of trust and abuse of authority by the U.S. Government against it's own population indicting three administrations, many member of both parties, and further emphasizing why the CIA and NSA should be abolished utterly outright and NO money in the budget - not a red cent - nor any information on any government employee on official duties should remain outside taxpayers' perusal and scrutiny as "classified for national security purposes" ever again, for ANY purpose, nor any member of the government effectively above the law!

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Really, that's MAJOR small potatoes compared to the biggest breach of trust and abuse of authority by the U.S. Government against it's own population indicting three administrations, many member of both parties, and further emphasizing why the CIA and NSA should be abolished utterly outright and NO money in the budget - not a red cent - nor any information on any government employee on official duties should remain outside taxpayers' perusal and scrutiny as "classified for national security purposes" ever again, for ANY purpose, nor any member of the government effectively above the law!

Again agree 100% 👏

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Assange and Wikileaks as a whole tried to make Hillary lose the election by selectively publishing information. Assange should have his trial, I don't consider myself too patriotic but I struggle to support anyone that is beholden to an enemy country trying to influence our elections. He tried so hard to play Russia's game and get the Snowden deal, it didn't work out. 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, ZedWilliamsR said:

Assange and Wikileaks as a whole tried to make Hillary lose the election by selectively publishing information. Assange should have his trial, I don't consider myself too patriotic but I struggle to support anyone that is beholden to an enemy country trying to influence our elections. He tried so hard to play Russia's game and get the Snowden deal, it didn't work out. 

 

 

 

But, according to the NSA in the PRISM documents, you ARE beholden to an "enemy power." Doesn't it at all concern you that that document referred to the "American people" as an "enemy power" to the U.S. Government and intelligence apparatus in one reference? THAT is exactly what I am I talking about here.

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20 minutes ago, ZedWilliamsR said:

Assange and Wikileaks as a whole tried to make Hillary lose the election by selectively publishing information. Assange should have his trial, I don't consider myself too patriotic but I struggle to support anyone that is beholden to an enemy country trying to influence our elections. He tried so hard to play Russia's game and get the Snowden deal, it didn't work out. 

 

 

 

Coming from our country when we've influenced in how many elections and did how many regime changes? 

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

Really, that's MAJOR small potatoes compared to the biggest breach of trust and abuse of authority by the U.S. Government against it's own population indicting three administrations, many member of both parties, and further emphasizing why the CIA and NSA should be abolished utterly outright and NO money in the budget - not a red cent - nor any information on any government employee on official duties should remain outside taxpayers' perusal and scrutiny as "classified for national security purposes" ever again, for ANY purpose, nor any member of the government effectively above the law!

Do you ever read what you write? The script gets old after a while

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1 minute ago, Harris/Ernst 2020 said:

Do you ever read what you write? The script gets old after a while

Does meekly and humbly accepting a government that abuses and runs rough shod over your rights and dignities, violates it's own laws and holds it's members above justice, lies to you, cheats you, and fails you again and again, and awaits your support at the ballot box for another term of abuse of disappointment - to the extent that trigger revolutions, insurgencies, <Insert Name Here> Springs, and "Clean Hands" legislative revolts in other countries, grow tiresome for you and your sense of dignity, pride, and justice at all?

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12 minutes ago, Harris/Ernst 2020 said:

Do you ever read what you write? The script gets old after a while

Does blindly going on with Administration after Administration committing war crimes and atrocities all around the world ever get old? 

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Insano said:

Coming from our country when we've influenced in how many elections and did how many regime changes? 

No that's diffrent. Why? Well, it helps make my life comfortable, and it nothing can be wrong if it makes our country strong, and we gotta get tough to save democracy. Ask Chile where we overthrew a democratically elected Socialist, Salvador Allende, to install a murderous Fascist regime lead by Augusto Pinochet. Or when we backed Fulgencio Batista or Sigmund Rhee, or Chiang Kai Shek, or Hosni Mubarak. Or when we sent more  than 500,000 American boys to fight for good ol' Diệmocracy, which rule by one family, and counting more votes than there were registered voters. I could go on,but America is so active in protecting Capitalism and Wealth, er I mean Freedom and Democracy, that it'd take far too long to list all of our invasions, coups, bought elections, ect, ect.

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17 minutes ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

As a supporter of free speech, the leaking of classified material is always illegal.

The existence of a category of information by a government that is Constitutionally accountable to it's citizens called "classified for national security" is the real crime - treason and sedition by that government against the people and nation that government represents. You have called out the wrong crime and the wrong criminals. No government empowered by it's citizens has the right or privilege to keep secrets from it's own citizens, because the purpose of such secrets is ALWAYS to protect criminals in the government's employ, cover-up crimes by the government, and hide violations of trust and the laws of their own nation from their own people. The classified material existing and being protecting is the REAL crime.

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6 minutes ago, Patine said:

The existence of a category of information by a government that is Constitutionally accountable to it's citizens called "classified for national security" is the real crime - treason and sedition by that government against the people and nation that government represents. You have called out the wrong crime and the wrong criminals. No government empowered by it's citizens has the right or privilege to keep secrets from it's own citizens, because the purpose of such secrets is ALWAYS to protect criminals in the government's employ, cover-up crimes by the government, and hide violations of trust and the laws of their own nation from their own people. The classified material existing and being protecting is the REAL crime.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. There is simply some subject matter that being classified is simply for the best. And to think such material would only exist to protect criminals is quite frankly extremely cynical and pessimistic. However, like I said agree to disagree as ultimately it is unlikely one will change the others mind.

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3 minutes ago, SilentLiberty said:

And to think such material would only exist to protect criminals is quite frankly extremely cynical and pessimistic.

No, not cynical and pessimistic. I wish I could actually agree there. It's pure realism. Those who rely on deep layers of secrets are never good people at heart, and never mean well, even for those they take "an oath" serve and protect. At best, they're self-deluded. I believe outlawing outright such institutional secrecy by government as an across the board absolute with harsh penalties and no allowances for nepotistic protections would take away one of the biggest temptations for corruption and crime by government, and allow them to be MADE to be transparent and accountable, as they should be.

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4 hours ago, SilentLiberty said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. There is simply some subject matter that being classified is simply for the best. And to think such material would only exist to protect criminals is quite frankly extremely cynical and pessimistic. However, like I said agree to disagree as ultimately it is unlikely one will change the others mind.

Also, an interesting conundrum with your answer. Who, in your opinion, would or should be charged with assuring the use of classified information would only be used where absolutely needed and would not be protecting criminals, crimes, and unconstitutional actions by government, or abuses of power, or even high-level corruption, and that could be trusted to have the interests of the people and rule of law in mind, and have binding power to fulfill their duties - given the obvious secretive and publicly unaccountable nature of the power to classify information as it is?

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Assange exposed lies and corruption of governments worldwide.He is investigative journalist,not a criminal!

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2 hours ago, Patine said:

Also, an interesting conundrum with your answer. Who, in your opinion, would or should be charged with assuring the use of classified information would only be used where absolutely needed and would not be protecting criminals, crimes, and unconstitutional actions by government, or abuses of power, or even high-level corruption, and that could be trusted to have the interests of the people and rule of law in mind, and have binding power to fulfill their duties - given the obvious secretive and publicly unaccountable nature of the power to classify information as it is?

It's an interesting conundrum indeed. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Yet the idea of the United States government has 'fail-safes' built in. Hence the idea of checks and balances with the three branches of the Government. 

 

As far as foreign(to me) governments, I would have to say, in a general blanket statement I am not informed enough about them to have an opinion.

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7 hours ago, SilentLiberty said:

It's an interesting conundrum indeed. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Yet the idea of the United States government has 'fail-safes' built in. Hence the idea of checks and balances with the three branches of the Government. 

 

As far as foreign(to me) governments, I would have to say, in a general blanket statement I am not informed enough about them to have an opinion.

But, since the government keeping secrets from it's citizens and actually arresting people who blew the whistle on those secrets is not covered in the U.S. Constitution, and people like Thomas Jefferson and his fellow early ideologues likely would have denounced the secret-keepers as enemies of all they held dear, built in "fail-safes" and checks and balances don't actually exist, and no limits exist on government institutional secrecy.

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17 hours ago, ThePotatoWalrus said:

As a supporter of free speech, the leaking of classified material is always illegal.

Well then you're not a free speech activists you're a bootlicker, just like Ben Shapiro 

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I'm interested in @vcczar, @jvikings1, and @NYrepublican's opinion's on the legality (and enforceability by criminal charges against whistleblowers) of government classifying documents about it's own activities and employees, even from it's own citizens - who pay taxes and legally empower it - and, if viewed as legal, whether the unrestricted and unlimited ability by government to continue to do so on it's fiat and discretion should continue, and government should just be "trusted", or whether a mechanism of some sort, with binding power and separation from government in agenda, should be installed to make sure such classification of information is only where absolutely necessary and not covering up crimes, corruption, or Unconstitutional activity by government.

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31 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm interested in @vcczar, @jvikings1, and @NYrepublican's opinion's on the legality (and enforceability by criminal charges against whistleblowers) of government classifying documents about it's own activities and employees, even from it's own citizens - who pay taxes and legally empower it - and, if viewed as legal, whether the unrestricted and unlimited ability by government to continue to do so on it's fiat and discretion should continue, and government should just be "trusted", or whether a mechanism of some sort, with binding power and separation from government in agenda, should be installed to make sure such classification of information is only where absolutely necessary and not covering up crimes, corruption, or Unconstitutional activity by government.

I’ll try and give an answer when I have time. 

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